Michael Phelps, hypocrisy and American Drug Policy

reply to post by AceOfAces


It seems that the biggest argument against Phelps for his marijuana use is because he is a "role model"... Well, to quote SNL....

"Parents, if your kid says Michael Phelps smokes pot, why can't I? Say you can, as soon as you win 12 gold medals for your country"



[edit on 16-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Originally posted by DuneKnight

its makes you an addict and people will do whatever to keep getting high. it can be used to manipulate people into doing horrendous things and is known to shorten you life as it greatly affects your lungs more so than anything.
now whats the purpose of this dug to the user?---is it to keep you awake? is it to enhance your performance? is it to make you healthy? no, it just makes you feel good. NO substance can make you feel that good without undesired consequences, it will impact your body/mind and your long-term behavior.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by DuneKnight]

This entire post sums up your lack of knowledge concerning marijuana. First of all Marijuana is mildly addictive (as in Caffine addiction). So with that said you would have about an equal chance of getting robbed by someone trying to get their pot fix as someone trying to get their coffee fix. All medical reasons aside the purpose of pot to an overwhelmingly large demographic is, of course, to get high or "Feel good" so I don't really understand your argument here... Whats the point of candy, beer, video games, music, movies, and many other things that make people "feel good". By your logic they should be outlawed because they serve no purpose other than making people feel good.

im not sure how to answer that, you do know what i meant by feeling good right? let me tell you something that a couple of kids did when i was in high school: you know bake sale? well two messed up kids put Marijuana in the cake and sold it to many students from 5th grade to 11th, one of the kids who ate it was in my class. the rest of the day he had red eyes and felt drowsy same as the other kids that ate it and he had his head on the desk the entire time. explain to me please, why didnt these kids feel good. i wonder if there is anything other than drugs that can make you feel that way...i guess not. im sure there are other evil scenarios that i can think of that involves Marijuana.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
im not sure how to answer that, you do know what i meant by feeling good right? let me tell you something that a couple of kids did when i was in high school: you know bake sale? well two messed up kids put Marijuana in the cake and sold it to many students from 5th grade to 11th, one of the kids who ate it was in my class. the rest of the day he had red eyes and felt drowsy same as the other kids that ate it and he had his head on the desk the entire time. explain to me please, why didnt these kids feel good. i wonder if there is anything other than drugs that can make you feel that way...i guess not. im sure there are other evil scenarios that i can think of that involves Marijuana.

I had a kid in high school put laxative in the cake that was to be graded by our teacher for "Lifestyles Class" (that's what they called it at my school). I knew a kid in high school who put human dung under someones car door handle.

Now, what do all three of these stories have in common? The kids who did this stuff were immature dolts. Don't point the finger at cannabis for something an immature idiot did. Point it at the immature idiot!!!!!

Since we're doing scenarios, think about this for a second. And this is completely by your logic... A psychological mess buys a gun and kills someone. So guns are then evil, demonic, and should be illegal for everyone. That is exactly what you are saying about cannabis in your above statement.

And you ask "why didn't these kids feel good" 1 -> incorrect dose 2 -> their bodies are still developing and it isn't recommended that a developing mind use cannabis 3 -> consuming cannabis through ingestion has more pronounced effects compared to inhaling the smoke. And lastly but not least 4 -> cannabis is not for everyone. Some people don't enjoy the effects and that is their right to decide... But judging by your story, the concentration of cannabis in the cake was too high and consuming it through ingestion led them to feel lethargic and drowsy. Yes, red eyes are a side effect of cannabis in some users. But allergies cause red eyes too... so let's get rid of all pollen producing plants and outlaw dust!! So does not getting enough sleep... among many other things.

Your argument doesn't hold any water.

Blame the two dolts that put cannabis in a bake sale cake and didn't tell anyone, not cannabis. There are many funny pranks to pull but that is not one of 'em. It is also worth knowing that there are cancer patients, as well as many other patients who prefer taking their medicinal cannabis in edibles. It works.... WHEN DONE WITH RESPONSIBILITY.

That was not a very good argument and you'll have to do better than that. Try using more logic and factual information. I have already given you statistics on crime in a cannabis tolerable society vs. a cannabis demonizing society and I have given you studies and reports that refuted your misconceptions about cannabis. You're going to have to do a lot better than a story about two immature, irresponsible teenagers....

Originally posted by Make Speed Limit 45
Amen to that. All recreational drugs are bad. Booze is the worst of them all since alcohol turns people into wife beaters and deadly drunk drivers. But congress allows booze to stay legal because each congressgangster is paid an annual fortune by the booze industry.

Drugs and alcohol don't make people abusive. Where the heck did you get that idea? If alcohol made everyone wife-beaters then alcohol would be illegal. The fact is that mean-spirited abusive people just become more mean-spirited and abusive.

reply to post by ImaNutter


I don't care how many so-called studies have been done. And agreed maybe pot can't kill you but it makes you as stupid as a rock, makes you a lazy slob, a glutton, and in many cases even most cases of young people who smoke it a lot they become addicted to it, psychologically for dang sure and physically too. You won't have the withdrawals that quitting heroin causes but a person who has smoked pot for 5 or 10 years isn't just going to walk away from it and say oh well that was fun, time to grow up now. Pot IS a gateway drug, leads users on to much more serious drugs. These are facts, this is real life, I know this all to be true and not about to get into arguments with any potheads here who would rather take a beating than admit the truth.

Now, having said all that I don't think it is going to change things one bit whether it is legal or not. I think alcohol is as bad, no better no worse, than pot. I think if pot is illegal then booze should be illegal, but the prob is most politicians like a highball after work. Someday I guess there will be more potheads than not, so naturally there will be enough pot heads in political office to get it legalized, just as alcohol is. They will be able to go to a "Liquor and Marijuana" store and both drink and smoke themselves into a stupor legally every night of the week if that's what they like.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by ImaNutter

 

I don't care how many so-called studies have been done. And agreed maybe pot can't kill you but it makes you as stupid as a rock, makes you a lazy slob, a glutton, and in many cases even most cases of young people who smoke it a lot they become addicted to it, psychologically for dang sure and physically too. You won't have the withdrawals that quitting heroin causes but a person who has smoked pot for 5 or 10 years isn't just going to walk away from it and say oh well that was fun, time to grow up now. Pot IS a gateway drug, leads users on to much more serious drugs. These are facts, this is real life, I know this all to be true and not about to get into arguments with any potheads here who would rather take a beating than admit the truth.

Now, having said all that I don't think it is going to change things one bit whether it is legal or not. I think alcohol is as bad, no better no worse, than pot. I think if pot is illegal then booze should be illegal, but the prob is most politicians like a highball after work. Someday I guess there will be more potheads than not, so naturally there will be enough pot heads in political office to get it legalized, just as alcohol is. They will be able to go to a "Liquor and Marijuana" store and both drink and smoke themselves into a stupor legally every night of the week if that's what they like.

I can't even take this post seriously when you say you don't care about what studies have been done.

You're just spouting off misinformed propaganda again and ALL of your misconceptions have been covered previously. Saint4God tried and so did DuneKnight more recently... they spout off at the mouth with misinformation then when they are presented with facts and the studies they just ignore it and keep on hating without reason. I'm getting tired of linking all the relevant studies for each person so please go back a page or two or three and read some of the studies regarding the areas you're worried about and if you have any questions please come back and ask. If you won't even read them, I quite frankly don't care to respond any more to you...

If you're a visual type just watch the documentary.

What is the lethal dose of marijuana?

According to which US Government authority you want to believe, the lethal dose of marijuana is either about one-third your body weight, or about 1,500 pounds, consumed all at once.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In summary, enormous doses of Delta 9 THC, All THC and concentrated marihuana extract ingested by mouth were unable to produce death or organ pathology in large mammals but did produce fatalities in smaller rodents due to profound central nervous system depression.

The non-fatal consumption of 3000 mg/kg A THC by the dog and monkey would be comparable to a 154-pound human eating approximately 46 pounds (21 kilograms) of 1%-marihuana or 10 pounds of 5% hashish at one time. In addition, 92 mg/kg THC intravenously produced no fatalities in monkeys. These doses would be comparable to a 154-pound human smoking at one time almost three pounds (1.28 kg) of 1%-marihuana or 250,000 times the usual smoked dose and over a million times the minimal effective dose assuming 50% destruction of the THC by smoking.

Thus, evidence from animal studies and human case reports appears to indicate that the ratio of lethal dose to effective dose is quite large. This ratio is much more favorable than that of many other common psychoactive agents including alcohol and barbiturates (Phillips et al. 1971, Brill et al. 1970).

Many of you have seen this before as it was introduced earlier on in the thread. At first, it seems to support the notion that marihuana use is relatively harmless, unless you consume it in extreemely, large doses. But, to bring up a point that others have said in contraverting other reports put out by the government (symantics, like when people died there may have been alcohol in use and you can not blame marihauna for something that alcohol may be responsible for), in this report, no human studies were ever done. That is right. All test subjects were mammals or rodents but not human. The only creatures to die in these tests were rodents and all figures are based on consumtion by inhaling smoke not eating or even vaporiving the weed. In the smoking method, only 50% THC is delivered to the body. Vaporizing delivers approx. 98.5% THC for the same amounts in smoking (source: Spike Tv: Manswers). When THC is comsumed using this method, logically, all the above numbers may be cut in half and then only for these animals and rodents. 1500 pounds becomes 750 pounds and still these are just for the animals tested. Different creatures metabolize substances in different ways. It is possible that 750 is a drop in the bucket for humans however, it is just as possible that 750 is more than enough to kill a human. Though it isn't smart for someone to consume more than "10 pounds of 5% hashish", it is possible that someone could do it and may be able to kill themselves with marihuana. This brings me back to a point I've already made. Too much of anything can KILL. It doesn't matter if it is good or bad, right or wrong but it just is, true.

reply to post by ImaNutter


It's not about hate. I don't care about any ridiculous skewed studies. They mean nothing in many cases. This is real life 101. I lived through the drug scene of the 70's and raised two teens thru the drug scene of the 80's-90's, I have worked in education for 23 years, I know of what I speak. I also know you cannot argue with a pothead so I'm not even gonna try.

reply to post by Bombeni



" I don't care how many studies have been done..." That says it all! Anyone who immediately dismissed the evidence in favor of nensense rumors has lost the argument already...and the last sentence: " I won't argue with..." says the rest: I will not listen to logic and facts...I only care about my oppinion, which is based on nonsense...thats what you are saying.

Rarely have I read a reply more embarrassing to the poster than yours...it is a case study in avoiding rational discourse and limiting the ' facts' to what you think...amazing.

Pot is NOT addicting, either physically or mentally. Some people overdo it, just like they would with gambling or soda pop or whatever their personality demands. There are NO studies of any merit that prove anything you said...it all shows that pot is a BENEFICIAL and remarkably benign plant that helps millions of people every day.

There has NEVER been a death from pot, not in all 6-8 thousand years of its' use. Lies and scare tactics used by the filthy DEA and other narc thugs have been shown over and over to be LIES, yet we still see people repeat the lies as if it were truth.

Cannabis should be legal...it is safe and effective medicine, and the worst that can happen is a bad case of the munchies...big deal. Please get past refusing to recognize the facts and truth....your insistence on ignoring the facts screams out of your posts.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by ImaNutter

 

It's not about hate. I don't care about any ridiculous skewed studies. They mean nothing in many cases. This is real life 101. I lived through the drug scene of the 70's and raised two teens thru the drug scene of the 80's-90's, I have worked in education for 23 years, I know of what I speak. I also know you cannot argue with a pothead so I'm not even gonna try.

Ridiculous skewed studies, eh?

Neuropsychiatry Research Unit, Department of Psychiatry, University of Saskatchewan... Cancer causes neurogenesis

Harvard... Cannabis cuts tumour growth in half

UCLA... No link between Cannabis and Cancer

Institute of Toxicology and Pharmacology, University of Rostock, Rostock, Germany... finds Cannabis to be anticarcinogenic

Report funded by Richard Nixon and US Government to find out truth about Cannabis... (hint, Nixon was highly upset with the findings then chose to ignore the findings)... The Schaffer Report

Harvard, UCLA, University of Saskatchewan, University of Rostock, The United States Government...

... who exactly would you accept a study from as legitimate?

I also know you cannot argue with a pothead so I'm not even gonna try.

You might be surprised to find out I'm in college right now to become an Engineer... and there was a time about 2 years ago I smoked with retired FBI agents... and then there is Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, many musicians, many authors, many scientists who also smoked/smoke cannabis. Don't argue with me... argue with all these people, including UCLA, Harvard, University of Rostock, University of Saskatchewan, and the US Government.....


[edit on 17-2-2009 by ImaNutter]

Originally posted by eyewitness86
reply to post by Bombeni

 

" I don't care how many studies have been done..." That says it all! Anyone who immediately dismissed the evidence in favor of nensense rumors has lost the argument already...and the last sentence: " I won't argue with..." says the rest: I will not listen to logic and facts...I only care about my oppinion, which is based on nonsense...thats what you are saying.

Rarely have I read a reply more embarrassing to the poster than yours...it is a case study in avoiding rational discourse and limiting the ' facts' to what you think...amazing.

Pot is NOT addicting, either physically or mentally. Some people overdo it, just like they would with gambling or soda pop or whatever their personality demands. There are NO studies of any merit that prove anything you said...it all shows that pot is a BENEFICIAL and remarkably benign plant that helps millions of people every day.

There has NEVER been a death from pot, not in all 6-8 thousand years of its' use. Lies and scare tactics used by the filthy DEA and other narc thugs have been shown over and over to be LIES, yet we still see people repeat the lies as if it were truth.

Cannabis should be legal...it is safe and effective medicine, and the worst that can happen is a bad case of the munchies...big deal. Please get past refusing to recognize the facts and truth....your insistence on ignoring the facts screams out of your posts.

Oh my gawd. That's all I can say. I would venture to say you've been smoking it quite a long while. I'm not going to ask you to incriminate yourself, your statements speak for themselves. Trust me I'm not at all embarrassed by my remarks. They are completely true. You claim it isn't addictive. I cannot count how many people I know who started smoking it 20-30 years ago and would just as soon be dead than be without it now. Like I said I'm talking real life. Pot keeps people from being as productive as they would have been in life. I dread to think of an entire society of pot smokers. The Indians used quite a bit of it I believe, and they didn't fare too well.

reply to post by ImaNutter


That's great that you're in college. No telling WHAT you could become if you laid off the weed.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by ImaNutter

 

That's great that you're in college. No telling WHAT you could become if you laid off the weed.

Yeah, maybe he could become President!! Or any of the other professions that cannabis users become....your replies get weakwer and weaker...give up now before you really embarrass yourself any further.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by ImaNutter

 

That's great that you're in college. No telling WHAT you could become if you laid off the weed.

Truth be told, I wouldn't dare find out

So do you want to go ahead and answer the question of : who has to do a study for you to consider it legitimate? Was UCLA, Harvard, University of Saskatchewan, University of Rostock, and the US Government not enough for you? Are they too much of "pot activists" for you?

I honestly laughed out loud when I read this:

Pot keeps people from being as productive as they would have been in life.

Do you have any comprehension of just how many people have smoked cannabis?

Here is a short list of some of the notable ones:

Andy Warhol
Arthur Conan Doyl (author of Sherlock Holmes)
The Beatles
Bill Clinton
Bill Gates
Bob Dylan
Carl Sagan
Carlos Santana
Dr. Francis Crick (Nobel Prize Winner)
Dr. Mark Porter
Dr. W.B. O'Shaugnessy
Edgar Allen Poe
Emperor Liu Chiu-nu
Emperor Shen-Nung
Ernest Hemingway
George W. Bush
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Howard Marks
Jack Herrer
John F. Kennedy
Johnny Cash
Lewis Carrol (Author of Alice in Wonderland)
Miles Davis
Niel Young
Neil Diamond
Oliver Stone
Pablo Picasso
Paul McCartney
Paul Simon
Salvador Dali
Samuel Tyler Coleridge
Stephen King
Sigmun Freud
Thomas Jefferson
Timothy Leary
Richard Alpert
Walt Disney
Van Gogh
William Shakespeare
Winston Churchill

Maybe you should smoke some cannabis and you might come close to achieving half of what these people did....

reply to post by eyewitness86


I am not talking about people who smoke pot once in awhile, at a party once a month. I am talking about regular pot users. The people though who only smoke it once in awhile at a party don't really care one way or the other if pot becomes legal, and neither do I. But I do know that pot is addictive at least psychologically, the same I suppose as porno is addictive. If you take porno away from an addict they aren't going to experience physical withdrawal but they are going to be miserable.

I'll tell you how you could become a billionaire. Come up with something people can eat or drink that will allow them to pass a drug test for pot.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by eyewitness86

 

I am not talking about people who smoke pot once in awhile, at a party once a month. I am talking about regular pot users. The people though who only smoke it once in awhile at a party don't really care one way or the other if pot becomes legal, and neither do I. But I do know that pot is addictive at least psychologically, the same I suppose as porno is addictive. If you take porno away from an addict they aren't going to experience physical withdrawal but they are going to be miserable.

I'll tell you how you could become a billionaire. Come up with something people can eat or drink that will allow them to pass a drug test for pot.

What you seem to ignore, or be oblivious to, is it is UP TO THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE USER as to what comes of them and their cannabis use.

Anything on this Earth can be abused. You drink too much water, you die... you eat too many apples, you can get the runs and die.... you take 13 aspirin that will be your LAST headache... etc, etc, etc

There is enough factual information out there, done by reputable institutions, to confirm cannabis is nowhere near as harmful as tobacco, alcohol, or even caffeine. When enjoyed responsibly, or for medical purposes, cannabis is safe and harmless. It is up to the USER to practice responsibility, use good judgment, and keep their priorities in check.

You can not regulate people's use of judgment and their priorities. You can point to cases with any substance and all activities where idiots didn't practice any good judgment or keep their priorities in check, and they paid the price for it. But what you can not do, is blame the substance or activity for the stupidity of the participant.

This applies to ALL THINGS IN LIFE, including Cannabis use. I guarantee that for every one case of poor judgment with cannabis, there are multiple good cases of cannabis use where the user enjoyed life, made smart decisions, kept their priorities in check, and was a well functioning member of society.

That... is fact. That.... is real life.

Real life is accepting responsibility for everything you do.

Because you know 1 person that made poor choices in life, does not mean there aren't a thousand more who made the right decisions in life.

I have stepped aside from the studies, factual information, and name dropping in hopes you can read this and understand my logic so that we can find some common ground.

reply to post by Bombeni


Bombeni, I would be ashamed to admit that I worked in education since you seem to be spouting speculation and personal experience as if they were ultimate truth. Anyone working in education who says that they don't care what studies say should be fired. Thats the equivalent of saying "Kids throw out your school books, all those studies are skewed, let me tell you from personal experience how it really is." While I agree 100% that pot makes SOME people lazy and gluttonous, I will argue the same thing about TV, while the majority of society is left to function normally. So forgive me if I dont seem impressed by your parading around with "facts" because you have personally "seen" the damages that pot causes. I lived through pot as well, MY personal experience is a different one than yours. So who is right and who is wrong?

[edit on 17-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

I love these debates. It's mildly humorous to see the pot haters repeat the same tired old denials in the face of literally study after study after study that proved them wrong.

Now we've got a poster flat out admitting that they don't care what silly old proof has to say about it, pot must be bad because they know some peahats that use it in an irresponsible, chemically abusive manner.

I know a guy who's smoked weed since 6th grade - we're both 25 now - and about a year ago he decided not to smoke anymore because he got married and his wife was in the "The government says its bad, it MUST be bad!" camp.

He hasn't touched it since. Some "addictive" properties, huh?

reply to post by mattifikation


I am one of those cases as well. I smoked at least twice a week from 10th grade through the end of college (all-in-all about 6 years). I quit cold turkey when I got my first real job due to drug testing. I haven't smoked again since I was in college. I would say I had very mild withdrawal symptoms, something like minor headache for a few days but after that all was good. Now the only thing I miss was how much fun I had when I was smoking.

reply to post by ExistenceUnknown


It's just like this: "studies" (what a joke) on drug abuse/use are completely unreliable. Whoever is making these studies are not getting accurate results. The very few drug users/abusers who would even consider taking part in such a "study" -- lol -- aren't going to give accurate details, even anonymously.

Pot is a mood-altering substance. The worst case scenario and it is the most common is adolescents who smoke it from the age of 13 or 14 and keep smoking it thru teen years; they don't experience going from teen to adult in a normal healthy way, incur problems adjusting to adulthood.