Michael Phelps, hypocrisy and American Drug Policy

Also, a more "literary" link, for the people that like to read books online...

The Emperor Wears No Clothes


A lot of good points for the uses of hemp/cannabis, and tons of evidence/descriptions of the fight against the plant.

reply to post by alaskan


That is a great book alaskan. Jack Herrer is a perfect example of "opening one's eyes to the truth." His story personally is a good one, but the book is better Thanks very much for posting a link to it!

I think all those who are opposing cannabis should give it a read. I recommend they do a LOT of reading on this subject matter, they might find out somebody's been lyyyiinngggg hehe

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by saint4God

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

I don't know where you get your information mate, but you are dead wrong (excuse the pun).

I posted this a few pages back but you chose to completely ignore it because it does not agree with what you say. But facts are facts and you CANNOT deny this:

Nobody has EVER died from taking only cannabis. EVER. You want proof? Here you go...

LD50 (the dose required to kill half of the research subjects) is the consumption of roughly 1 kilogram (35.2739619 ounces) of cannabis in 1 minute!!

en.wikipedia.org...

There has never been a documented human fatality from marijuana. Information about THC's toxicity is derived from animal studies. The toxicity depends on the route of administration and the laboratory animal. Absorption is limited by serum lipids, which can become saturated with THC, mitigating toxicity. According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, THC has a LD50 (dose killing half of the research subjects) value of 1270 mg/kg (male rats) and 730 mg/kg (female rats) administered orally dissolved in sesame oil. The LD50 value for rats by inhalation of THC is 42 mg/kg of body weight. One estimate of Cannabis's LD50 for humans indicates that about 1500 pounds of marijuana would have to be smoked within 15 minutes. This estimate is supported by studies which indicate that the effective dose of THC is at least 1000 times lower than the estimated lethal dose (a "safety ratio" of 1000:1). This is much higher than alcohol (safety ratio of 10), coc aine (15), or heroin (6).

www.druglibrary.org...

What is the lethal dose of marijuana?

According to which US Government authority you want to believe, the lethal dose of marijuana is either about one-third your body weight, or about 1,500 pounds, consumed all at once.

In summary, enormous doses of Delta 9 THC, All THC and concentrated marihuana extract ingested by mouth were unable to produce death or organ pathology in large mammals but did produce fatalities in smaller rodents due to profound central nervous system depression.

The non-fatal consumption of 3000 mg/kg A THC by the dog and monkey would be comparable to a 154-pound human eating approximately 46 pounds (21 kilograms) of 1%-marihuana or 10 pounds of 5% hashish at one time. In addition, 92 mg/kg THC intravenously produced no fatalities in monkeys. These doses would be comparable to a 154-pound human smoking at one time almost three pounds (1.28 kg) of 1%-marihuana or 250,000 times the usual smoked dose and over a million times the minimal effective dose assuming 50% destruction of the THC by smoking.

Thus, evidence from animal studies and human case reports appears to indicate that the ratio of lethal dose to effective dose is quite large. This ratio is much more favorable than that of many other common psychoactive agents including alcohol and barbiturates (Phillips et al. 1971, Brill et al. 1970).

Now compare that to the likes of 'legal drugs' such as alcohol or tobacco. It blows them out of the water.

Excellent post!

Thank you

Originally posted by MichJJC

Originally posted by nasdack24k
reply to post by saint4God

 

the thing is, no matter how you look at it, apples are not harmful to the non-apple-allergic vast majority of people

[edit on 2/13/2009 by nasdack24k]

Not true. Too much of anything is bad for you. Even good things like apples and air can harm the healthiest person in excessive quantities.

You're kidding right?
If we're going to outlaw things on the basis of "too much of it can kill you", there wouldn't be anything left.


look up something called the human LD50 for cannabis.

Someone already mentioned it earlier in the thread.

LD50 stands for "Lethal dose, 50%" it's a scientific/medical term used to describe how large a quantity of a given substance per individual will kill 50% of a sample population...

I'll save you the time.

According to which US Government authority you want to believe, the lethal dose of THC is either about one-third your body weight of, or about 1,500 pounds of marijuana, consumed all at once.


I wonder how many apples it would take...

reply to post by nasdack24k


Eating excessive quantities of apples would have a similar affect to large quantities of coconut milk or laxatives. Diarrhea can cause excessive loss of moisture (known as dehidration) which claims the lives of hundreds of Americans each year. Too much water may drown you but if you drink too much water, did you know you can achieve water intoxication and even die from it? The end result for injesting anything in excessive quantities is the same, DEATH. That being said, is it safe to say that individual responsibility is the key to ensuring a safe and healthy lifestyle? All things in moderation? I would be angry with Phelps if his marihuana use cost him the win and there by the honor of our nation if he chose marihuana over the gold. As it stands, he wasn't irresponsible at all. In fact he was extreemly responsible and avoided the drug until after he'd won his metals.

I challenge anyone to find one thing, that we can or have to injest, which will not cause death, directly or indirectly, if we injest too much.

I think ultimately saint4god's problem with cannabis is he/she thinks it's a sin. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me with all the information provided in this thread. If that's their stance I can respect that, they should come right out and say so, but they won't. Because then what little credibility their argument had is lost, from a scientific standpoint. Faith does not stand up well against the scientific method.

Don't get me wrong, I consider myself to be a man of faith as well, just not blind faith.

edit for spelling

[edit on 2/14/2009 by yadboy]

Originally posted by yadboy
I think ultimately saint4god's problem with cannabis is he/she thinks it's a sin. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me with all the information provided in this thread. If that's their stance I can respect that, they should come right out and say so, but they won't. Because then what little credibility their argument had is lost, from a scientific standpoint. Faith does not stand up well against the scientific method.

Don't get me wrong, I consider myself to be a man of faith as well, just not blind faith.

edit for spelling

[edit on 2/14/2009 by yadboy]

Yadboy, I think you hit the nail on the head right there! I wish I were able to give applause, but a star and a will have to do!

Well, s4g, we're waiting (and prepared) for your response...because even if YOU think its a sin, if you believe in the Bible, it does say that God gave all flowering plants to Man to do with as he will (or something like that).

Peace and love to all!

Originally posted by keeb333
Well, s4g, we're waiting (and prepared) for your response...because even if YOU think its a sin, if you believe in the Bible, it does say that God gave all flowering plants to Man to do with as he will (or something like that).

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Genesis 1:29

why do i get the feeling that some people here were raised by wolves. cannabis, marijuana, Bong ---all should remain illegal. heck i would put smoking and alcohol there too if i could. these are mind altering drugs that not only harm you but harm others around you as well, it should be unethical and unacceptable by society. you guys dont know what you are talking about and the little that you know you use so you can fulfill your selfish needs regardless of the consequences this could bring to social atmosphere.
hypocrisy is right, Phelps was unaffected by this, im not talking about legal stuff, im talking about how society viewed it. now that we have presidents that did this means that its no big deal?? so basically they should teach that in school, marijuana could make you president. if michael phelps remains unaffected by this in society's eyes then there is not stopping kids from doing it and i wont be able to tell them its wrong when all society's idols have been doing it.
people here will say anything so they can get high, so their arguments are not valid because its the high that drives them.
humans cant be trusted with such materials.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by DuneKnight]

reply to post by DuneKnight


I don't smoke marijuana so my "selfish needs" have nothing to do with this argument. I love when people say that we are going to ruin society by making marijuana legal. It's a dumb argument that assumes millions of people aren't smoking it already. The CDC did a report in 2003 on the risk behaviors of our youth. Do you know what they found in that report? More teenagers are smoking pot now than cigarettes. There is a real simple reason for this: Pot is easier to get because it is illegal and unregulated. Those of you who want to keep this stuff illegal are only keeping it in the hands of the people who really don't give a crap about your kids.

Here is the CDC report if you care to look at it. You can find the stats I referenced under Current Cigarette Use & Current Marijuana Use.



[edit on 16-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

Originally posted by Tentickles
You have to realize this guy trained 12 hours a day for 3 years to go to the Olympics. He's an "American Hero" (I say that loosely) and a role model.

I think he gets a free pass.

He's done more with his life then all the pot heads and drug dealers ever will.

Done more with his life!!!!????? He's just a stupid jock. A useless parasite who doesn't produce anything. The heroes in america are the scientists and farmers and factory workers and engineers. Productive people.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
why do i get the feeling that some people here were raised by wolves. cannabis, marijuana, Bong ---all should remain illegal. heck i would put smoking and alcohol there too if i could. these are mind altering drugs that not only harm you but harm others around you as well, it should be unethical and unacceptable by society.

Amen to that. All recreational drugs are bad. Booze is the worst of them all since alcohol turns people into wife beaters and deadly drunk drivers. But congress allows booze to stay legal because each congressgangster is paid an annual fortune by the booze industry.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
why do i get the feeling that some people here were raised by wolves. cannabis, marijuana, Bong ---all should remain illegal. heck i would put smoking and alcohol there too if i could. these are mind altering drugs that not only harm you but harm others around you as well, it should be unethical and unacceptable by society. you guys dont know what you are talking about and the little that you know you use so you can fulfill your selfish needs regardless of the consequences this could bring to social atmosphere.
hypocrisy is right, Phelps was unaffected by this, im not talking about legal stuff, im talking about how society viewed it. now that we have presidents that did this means that its no big deal?? so basically they should teach that in school, marijuana could make you president. if michael phelps remains unaffected by this in society's eyes then there is not stopping kids from doing it and i wont be able to tell them its wrong when all society's idols have been doing it.
people here will say anything so they can get high, so their arguments are not valid because its the high that drives them.
humans cant be trusted with such materials.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by DuneKnight]

Where to start...

You are speaking on a subject you know nothing about.

If you scroll up, you can take 5 minutes of your life to read 21 separate studies by people MUCH, MUCH smarter than you... or watch The Union documentary where they interview people MUCH, MUCH smarter than you. You might find your current views challenged by these highly educated people.

I don't understand how you're going to show up in this thread and spout off from the mouth, and have no factual information to back anything you say up.

We've already proven it doesn't hurt you (PLEASE SEE STUDIES I PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED). It can't kill you, no matter how much you TRY and consume, it's physically impossible to reach the LD-50 for cannabis (PLEASE SEE STUDIES I PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED). I would LOVE to hear your reasoning on how it hurts people around you? That is one of the biggest gripes with prohibition, is how can you punish someone for a victimless crime?

Not only a couple presidents smoked cannabis, a LOT of presidents smoked cannabis. The last three we can say for certainty, as well as the first ones...(and probably all those inbetween)

"Some of my finest hours have been spent on the back of my veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as the eye can see."
-Thomas Jefferson, 1781

I hold George Washington and Thomas Jefferson in much higher regards than I will ever hold an ignorant screen name on the internet.

Societal damage? Selfish needs? Where did this come from? What are you even talking about? Do you have any idea what garbage is coming out of your mouth? Let me ignore your worthless OPINION, and give you some FACTS...

Holland murders per 1000 people: .011
USA murders per 1000 people: .043

Holland prisoners per 1000 people: .11
USA prisoners per 1000 people: .72

Holland burglaries per 1000 people: 1.13
USA burglaries per 1000 people: 1.39

Holland assaults per 1000 people: 2.7
USA assaults per 1000 people: 7.6
source for all above information

So do you want to go ahead and explain to me how toleration towards cannabis equates to a downfall in society? One can reasonably assume with the above statistics that if the USA was MORE TOLERABLE towards cannabis, WE'D BE A BETTER AND SAFER SOCIETY.

It's so hard to reply to your message because it is simply misinformed, uneducated, hateful ignorance at its finest. You spout from the mouth angrily for a couple minutes.... with no factual information.... and we're supposed to take your crap as fact. Give me a break. I gave you factual information refuting your nonsense in this response, and if you go back a page in the thread you will find 21 studies by PhDs, Universities, and even the Government that will tell you THE TRUTH about cannabis. Until you educate yourself a little on this subject, please don't bother coming back...

[B][U]DENY IGNORANCE[/B][/U]

Originally posted by ImaNutter

Originally posted by DuneKnight
why do i get the feeling that some people here were raised by wolves. cannabis, marijuana, Bong ---all should remain illegal. heck i would put smoking and alcohol there too if i could. these are mind altering drugs that not only harm you but harm others around you as well, it should be unethical and unacceptable by society. you guys dont know what you are talking about and the little that you know you use so you can fulfill your selfish needs regardless of the consequences this could bring to social atmosphere.
hypocrisy is right, Phelps was unaffected by this, im not talking about legal stuff, im talking about how society viewed it. now that we have presidents that did this means that its no big deal?? so basically they should teach that in school, marijuana could make you president. if michael phelps remains unaffected by this in society's eyes then there is not stopping kids from doing it and i wont be able to tell them its wrong when all society's idols have been doing it.
people here will say anything so they can get high, so their arguments are not valid because its the high that drives them.
humans cant be trusted with such materials.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by DuneKnight]

Where to start...

You are speaking on a subject you know nothing about.

If you scroll up, you can take 5 minutes of your life to read 21 separate studies by people MUCH, MUCH smarter than you... or watch The Union documentary where they interview people MUCH, MUCH smarter than you. You might find your current views challenged by these highly educated people.

I don't understand how you're going to show up in this thread and spout off from the mouth, and have no factual information to back anything you say up.

We've already proven it doesn't hurt you (PLEASE SEE STUDIES I PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED). It can't kill you, no matter how much you TRY and consume, it's physically impossible to reach the LD-50 for cannabis (PLEASE SEE STUDIES I PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED). I would LOVE to hear your reasoning on how it hurts people around you? That is one of the biggest gripes with prohibition, is how can you punish someone for a victimless crime?

Not only a couple presidents smoked cannabis, a LOT of presidents smoked cannabis. The last three we can say for certainty, as well as the first ones...(and probably all those inbetween)

"Some of my finest hours have been spent on the back of my veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as the eye can see."
-Thomas Jefferson, 1781

I hold George Washington and Thomas Jefferson in much higher regards than I will ever hold an ignorant screen name on the internet.

Societal damage? Selfish needs? Where did this come from? What are you even talking about? Do you have any idea what garbage is coming out of your mouth? Let me ignore your worthless OPINION, and give you some FACTS...

Holland murders per 1000 people: .011
USA murders per 1000 people: .043

Holland prisoners per 1000 people: .11
USA prisoners per 1000 people: .72

Holland burglaries per 1000 people: 1.13
USA burglaries per 1000 people: 1.39

Holland assaults per 1000 people: 2.7
USA assaults per 1000 people: 7.6
source for all above information

So do you want to go ahead and explain to me how toleration towards cannabis equates to a downfall in society? One can reasonably assume with the above statistics that if the USA was MORE TOLERABLE towards cannabis, WE'D BE A BETTER AND SAFER SOCIETY.

It's so hard to reply to your message because it is simply misinformed, uneducated, hateful ignorance at its finest. You spout from the mouth angrily for a couple minutes.... with no factual information.... and we're supposed to take your crap as fact. Give me a break. I gave you factual information refuting your nonsense in this response, and if you go back a page in the thread you will find 21 studies by PhDs, Universities, and even the Government that will tell you THE TRUTH about cannabis. Until you educate yourself a little on this subject, please don't bother coming back...

[B][U]DENY IGNORANCE[/B][/U]

its makes you an addict and people will do whatever to keep getting high. it can be used to manipulate people into doing horrendous things and is known to shorten you life as it greatly affects your lungs more so than anything.
now whats the purpose of this dug to the user?---is it to keep you awake? is it to enhance your performance? is it to make you healthy? no, it just makes you feel good. NO substance can make you feel that good without undesired consequences, it will impact your body/mind and your long-term behavior.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by DuneKnight]

Originally posted by DuneKnight

its makes you an addict and people will do whatever to keep getting high. it can be used to manipulate people into doing horrendous things and is none to shorten you life as it greatly affects your lungs more so than anything.
now whats the purpose of this dug to the user?---is it to keep you awake? is it to enhance your performance? is it to make you healthy? no, it just makes you feel good. NO substance can make you feel that good without undesired consequences, it will impact your body/mind and your long-term behavior.

You sound like you're talking about meth or coc aine. And I already showed you with cold hard facts that tolerance towards cannabis equates to LESS HORRENDOUS acts than a society that demonizes it. Some cannabis keeps you awake (cannabis sativa varieties), some cannabis helps you sleep (cannabis indica varieties), some cannabis improves performance (depends on the personal situation what variety will help), cannabis does indeed make you healthier (cannabis indica varieties for cancer patients and other painful illnesses and cannabis sativa varieties for anxiety and depression)... oh and you're right, it does make you feel good too Which in addition to its other positive effects, makes it a wonderful and unique plant that has been around for thousands upon thousands of years FOR A REASON. And cannabis influences you only the time on which you are "high," which lasts for a couple of hours after consumption.. after that you are back to completely normal.

Let me introduce you to factual information...

Cannabis found not addictive

Health Benefits of Cannabis

Cannabis Cuts Tumor Growth in Half

Cannabis is Anticarcinogenic

18 of Nature's Most Powerful Medicinal Plants (Cannabis is #1)

Cannabinoids promote new brain cell growth and acts as anti-depressant

Documentary on Cannabis containing interviews with Physicists, Medical Professors, Authors, Politicians on Cannabis

The best study of all... done by US Government and ignored by Richard Nixon... The Schaffer Report

I said it once, I'll say it again... you don't know what you're talking about. PhDs, Universities, Authors, Scholars, and your own Government say so.

I'll ask again nicely, please don't bother coming back to this thread until you have factual information...


[edit on 16-2-2009 by ImaNutter]

Originally posted by nasdack24k

I wonder how many apples it would take...

It would required orchards, that is a lot of seeds to process.
apple seed

As for Phelps, I hear he has a new Olympic event to compete in;

2009 Ganja Olympics
Satire

Not exactly off topic, but I felt it was a needed laugh.
[credit for find goes to an member I'll leave anon.]

reply to post by DuneKnight

Welcome to the discussion, DuneKnight.


Please before we all continue arguing, watch this documentary: blip.tv...

So some of your basic questions can be answered.



First 10 minutes here:

Originally posted by DuneKnight

its makes you an addict and people will do whatever to keep getting high. it can be used to manipulate people into doing horrendous things and is known to shorten you life as it greatly affects your lungs more so than anything.
now whats the purpose of this dug to the user?---is it to keep you awake? is it to enhance your performance? is it to make you healthy? no, it just makes you feel good. NO substance can make you feel that good without undesired consequences, it will impact your body/mind and your long-term behavior.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by DuneKnight]

This entire post sums up your lack of knowledge concerning marijuana. First of all Marijuana is mildly addictive (as in Caffine addiction). So with that said you would have about an equal chance of getting robbed by someone trying to get their pot fix as someone trying to get their coffee fix. All medical reasons aside the purpose of pot to an overwhelmingly large demographic is, of course, to get high or "Feel good" so I don't really understand your argument here... Whats the point of candy, beer, video games, music, movies, and many other things that make people "feel good". By your logic they should be outlawed because they serve no purpose other than making people feel good.

Just goes to show you how ridiculous America is...Michael Phelps won all those medals and is the top swimmer in the world and he's criticized for smoking pot. This just goes to show you how smoking pot clearly doesn't affect you...If he can win all those medals and still smoke pot, there should be no issue.

Did we make a big deal out of it when Willie Nelson did? Warren Buffet?

STERIODS IN BASEBALL ARE TREATED LESS AS AN OFFENSE THAN MARIJUANA USE...

two words...

LEGALIZE IT

Canada did it and they're not as screwed us as the U.S. is...

[edit on 2/16/2009 by AceOfAces]

Sheriff Leon Lott of Richland County, South Carolina just televised his zero intention to file charges against Michael Phelps, lacking evidence.