Is it time to ditch the bible?

Originally posted by donwhite
I’m sorry, B/M, I meant that facetiously

Yes, of course I realized your entire post was just to degrade and attack me personally. As a means of trying to paint me off as ignorant and silly. What else is new?

You must have got this stuff in a Holy Ghost class how to flummox your audience? Or a hypnosis class?

Well you shouldn't be taking my word for it to begin with, or any mans words.

B/M, you remind me of St. Paul who made a BIG mistake! Acts 26. v28.Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me . . v31. And when they were gone aside, they talked between themselves [Agrippa, Bernice and Festus], saying, This man doeth nothing worthy of death or of bonds. v32. Then said Agrippa unto Festus, This man might have been set at liberty, if he had not appealed unto Caesar.” And you know what happened to St. Paul in Rome? That’s called being too smart by half.

Not sure what you are getting at. I do not really consider myself to be a christian, and I do not see where I am being tried or accused of any crimes where I am appealing to government courts.

Btw, when he appeals to ceaser he is asking to be ruled by ceaser. And of course, then he goes on to woe the Romans and then we get the church of Satan and so on.

I must quit now, B/M, as I do not take religion of any kind as being worth my time or trouble.

Your choice, but one must wonder why you began in the first place if such were true.


[edit on 4-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

So, it seems to me many of u want to ditch the bible cause God is a really tough dude? *SNIP* I guess He is just an unpolitcially correct god. That, sometimes gets really mad. Damn, what r we to do?

God is such a hard head. Reminds me of my wife; tho she did made my life far more interesting.

"I am" is just "I am". A distinct personality. U either like him or not.

I don't think he's going to lose any sleep over it.

To tell u the truth, I kind of like him that way.


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[edit on 4-2-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

Everything in this world seems to be man made, who is to say that God isn't some ancient alien leader than generated humans?
Maybe Leviticus was written to keep rules and order, but alot of the bible is truthful, except for the new testament and rules and # man.
Plus as well as aliens and # in the bible, I think the authors were on drugs...go watch this great movie>>> AMAZING IN FACT>>>> zeitgeist.com...

You guys are not seriously considering the obvious, and that is if God does in fact exist, then what does He need a bible for to communicate His will?

He doesn't you know.

Revelation is a spiritual manifestation one that can only be accomplished by an individual living human being one of us at a time.

Personally I'm not against, nor am I for, the Bible, the Koran or the Cat In The Hat.

Consider the possibility that there are holy and unholy works.

If that is correct then what does that mean for those books, writings, paintings, whatever people claim to be or contain the word or will of God.

If such a thing is correct and true and the Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon all of them are in fact spiritual works which contain the truth, then that work was received by revelation.

That means that supernatural means were employed, specifically word of knowledge, wisdom, or discerning of spirits, that is the only way such a thing could be accomplished.

In order to acquire a working interpretation of any section or part of such a book holy or un-holy, the individual seeking the truth would need to utilize the exact same means that were used to receive them.

That is what I am describing would be the case.

To begin with if the thing was actually received from any sort of God that might exist in the present moment, then nothing can be said to be true and correct, unless it is in sync with reality in real time, meaning it must be resolved to the condition of reality because it is one of simultaneous coexistence of multiple realities, which would be the exact situation if God in fact does exist.

Spiritual means would of necessity need to have been employed in the acquiring of revelation from God, given our true state of existence, therefore spiritual means must be utilized to acquire any working interpretation from any such thing as a holy writing or book.

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Today's installment from WIG'N ( What is God Network )

WIG'N 19: Is God for real?

/b9mkv7

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reply to post by drmike42


I'm not in favor of ditching the bible, far from it. I'm in favor of people actually understanding what it says, which does not actually come from the words themselves. I'm not in favor of the church who uses the symbolism and bible as a means of manipulation either.

And I'm not sure why you feel the need to cus at me either. You really made yourself look bad by doing that. You should edit your post. I didn't quote it, so you can still do it.

Originally posted by badmedia

19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Here we go again, you just keep churning them quotes out like a machine. A quotation machine. I like that.

Thing is, in all your posts, I see no space between what I am guessing is a verse no and the beginning of the quote, every single time.

Computer programmer eh? You MCP qualified?

reply to post by badmedia


I know you are not in favour of ditching it badmedia, but what do you think of those who don't like the idea of Jesus saying "do what I say and you will be okay / welcome in heaven etc"?

Because I see it as a tool for manipulating a population that's beginning to crumble, needs some guidance, that sort of thing. If you win enough people over, the sheep follow, but they follow in fear, as they think they are going to a nasty place in the afterlife.

"I better stick to what this Jesus fella says or I'm in trouble" etc etc

Before you know it, decorum, and a population that is better behaved.

That's how I feel about it.

What do you think of that?

Originally posted by Thistled
Here we go again, you just keep churning them quotes out like a machine. A quotation machine. I like that.

Thing is, in all your posts, I see no space between what I am guessing is a verse no and the beginning of the quote, every single time.

Computer programmer eh? You MCP qualified?

When someone is talking about things the bible says to me, then I think the quotes are pretty relevant response. Honestly, I don't care if you like it or not.

MCP qualified? LOL No, I'm not dumb enough to spend cash on certificates. And I'm not some corporate syntax monkey either, where such certificates might be useful. And besides, I work in a production server environment, and all my server run off linux. I do own VS, but it is for my own private use/fun.

reply to post by badmedia


(sorry - its off topic)

Same here, Gentoo, Fedora, RHEL, Server 2003, XP, 7. Yep I'm clued.

Man, I've no time for the bible with all of that. lol.

Originally posted by Thistled
reply to post by badmedia

 

I know you are not in favour of ditching it badmedia, but what do you think of those who don't like the idea of Jesus saying "do what I say and you will be okay / welcome in heaven etc"?

I think you'll reap what you sow. Do you know what it means to believe for the very works sake? If you can see where Jesus is showing the better way to live, then that is all that is needed. Now, you can bring up leviticus, but I'd personally like to know what part about doing what Jesus says that you find to be so bad.

So lets see some quotes on where what Jesus tells people to do is so bad.

Because I see it as a tool for manipulating a population that's beginning to crumble, needs some guidance, that sort of thing. If you win enough people over, the sheep follow, but they follow in fear, as they think they are going to a nasty place in the afterlife.

"I better stick to what this Jesus fella says or I'm in trouble" etc etc

Before you know it, decorum, and a population that is better behaved.

That's how I feel about it.

What do you think of that?

What I think is that you are basing your opinions not based on what is actually given in understanding, but based on the mainstream view and the church. If I had to base my choice on only the church and the things "Christians" do, then I couldn't even begin to embrace it. I call them the church of Satan. Because that is what it is. Everything about the Christian Church is towards worshiping Satan and the anti-christ. All a physical lie for things which are not physical. In such a form, it is brainwashing and manipulation.

But the thing is, these are things which are specifically warned about in themselves. So to think these things represent what the bible says is in itself foolish. The way corruption works is it takes that which is true, and then manipulates it.

All in all I think you should seek truth. Which is not to mean research the bible. I was no where near the bible, the church or had anything to do with Jesus. But I was seeking the truth, and that is what I found. And when I read the words of Jesus, I see that truth being shown to me again. Coincidence? But it is not in the same way the church teaches, it is not in the same way you understand it, and it is not in the same way that is allowed on this earth.

Again, tell me what is so bad about the path Jesus gives? And please, I reject Paul so do not quote Paul, I expect to see the words of Jesus.

Originally posted by Thistled

Originally posted by John Matrix

The world can keep it's porn. I'll keep my Bible. No censorship. Deal?

This is the second time sex has been used at the first sign of weakness in an argument.

Why do 'believers' do this? You always bring sex into the equation.

Obsessed.

Yes....I like it a lot. The more the better. It keeps me out of trouble. How about you?

Dont worry Thistled Badmedia is not a bible thumper .......he recommends ..only reading the red letters which were Jesus words and the first four books...Which for a smart guy he should know that Jesus did not write any of the bible ..so even Mattew Mark Luke etc should be suspect to him (since he is so paranoid about Paul ) ... ..And Matthew Mark Luke and John spoke highly of Paul in their books ...and there are many verses in those books regarding Paul and yet Badmedia thinks Paul was a false teacher etc .......so any of his books he would tell you to toss out .
I keep asking the question that if Paul was a bad bad man ..false teacher etc then why didnt the HOLY SPIRIT filled APOSTLES not kick him to the curb and rebuke him every time he talked or at the very least lay hands on him and pray for him to be set free from satan ?...and why would they take him in and teach him etc ....and even helped hide him out etc when he was running from the authorities ..they also called him their BELOVED brother ....Which brings me to my other question he cant answer .Why did the authorities kill him if he was one of the bad guys ? >>Why did they chase him down (thinking him to be a threat ) and kill him ...They wouldnt have ..


If Matthew Mark Luke and John all accepted Paul ..then maybe they were false teachers too eh and those books should not be accepted either ? (NOT but why doesnt Badmedia think about that?)

reply to post by badmedia


"the numerous times Jesus specifically says those who believe will do as he says."

I understand why someone might question Leviticus. But after you have read the whole Bible and understand it...you finally can see the reasons for it all. God has a reason for each book in the bible. When we read the history of the Hebrew people and what they went through coming out of Egypt...we see the value of the strict rules and regulations AND how God reacted to and dealt with their complaints and utter disregard for His commands. There were reasons in that time for the regulations. Not all of them were apparent though. God knew that we would have questions today about our ability to be perfect and follow all His rules. None of us can! They were barely able to then. Many of the sacrifices and ceremonies they implemented back then were foreshadows of Jesus' life to come. It is really amazing to see the agreements between the Gospels and the copious cross references in the Gospels to the books of the Old Testament. No one says that we have to follow those rules today. Jesus came so that we wouldn't have to focus on the Laws anymore. God knew how incredibly fallible we would always be and loves us so much He wants us to be with Him...the only way is Jesus' death and resurrection. (I really am not worried whether or not you believe it...I hope you do...but everyone won't -- The bible says that too) So...getting rid of a piece of Literature b/c you dont' believe in it is absurd. Do you have your copy of Nietzche? (sp?) I don't think it has been done away with yet. And for those who believe you will go to hell (I saw that someone posted this statement) That isn't a given either...you have to choose whether or not you're going to hell.

reply to post by Simplynoone


Is he alone or are there others with the same viewpoint?

reply to post by KnowledgeManDan

Everything in this world seems to be man made, who is to say that God isn't some ancient alien leader than generated humans? Maybe Leviticus was written to keep rules and order, but a lot of the bible is truthful, except for the new testament and rules and # man.

Back when I was in Sunday School, it was said Genesis was the story of the beginning, Exodus the story of leaving Egypt, Leviticus was the recitation of the Law of Moses in detail, Numbers was the first census and Deuteronomy was Doing it all Over Again.

The early Israelites came down from Mesopotamia (Iraq) between 1,500 BCE and 2,000 BCE. They were herding nomads roaming in a very dry area. The early Israelites were a very aggressive people and constantly engaged in struggles with others over who would occupy the few desirable places, much like an oasis in the desert. Life was hard and only the strong survived. The area’s one advantage was that the trade routes from Asia and the Mediterranean basin crossed there.

The oldest writing yet found dates around 1,250-1,300 BCE. Prior to that, the Israelites like most nomads of that time, were an oral society. If there were 12 tribes - there were not but it is a good story and represents there were different groups in the larger group - then the stories would vary from group to group and from age to age. No problem in an oral society but once you learn to set it to writing, you have a brand new ball game!

By this time - the first writing - the priesthood had evolved and with that comes rules usually designed to more deeply ensconce the priests into the society. In other words, you cannot make your own sacrifice to the gods but instead must buy a pure one at the temple and pay the priest-in-charge to make the sacrifice. A double whammy!

The more rules - I hear there are 612 rules in the Hebrew Bible - almost all for food and sacrifice, including the 10 rules we all hear about early in our lives. To gain power and influence, the priests claim the Holy Books were written by GOD and only they could understand the meaning of obscure texts.

99.999% of the material in the OT and NT are outdated in 2009. This is ONE book society would be better of if it was BANNED not only in Boston, but around the world.

[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]

Originally posted by Dontmakemebethe1
When we read the history of the Hebrew people and what they went through coming out of Egypt...we see the value of the strict rules and regulations AND how God reacted to and dealt with their complaints and utter disregard for His commands.

Why was there utter disregard for his commands?

There were reasons in that time for the regulations.

What were the reasons?

It is really amazing to see the agreements between the Gospels and the copious cross references in the Gospels to the books of the Old Testament.

Is that not because it has been cleverly compiled by man to maintain law and decorum in 'a people'?

Do you have your copy of Nietzche? (sp?)

Sorry, I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Originally posted by Thistled
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Is he alone or are there others with the same viewpoint?

Well supposedly there is a new movement these days with some who actually believe as he does....It was news to me until I met Badmedia ...there are a few others here too ..............
But there are other things he believes that are not your basic typical beliefs for someone who follows Jesus (like reincarnation ..and he thinks Jesus is not the only way to the father ) .........
He is in a class all his own .....at least with that combo of beliefs ....
He detests the church peoples and detests the unchurched (like myself) because he thinks we all got brainwashed by the church ..(which I can assure you I was not ...I did my own studying without Church for many many years now..and had no prior church before I studied (I barely went for 6 months my whole life to church and for sure they taught me not much of anything) ............
And he thinks that most of us here do not even know who the Holy Spirit or Jesus really is ..
And he thinks we worship our bibles (LOL) ....because most of us do believe that the bible is the word of God ..

Hey Thistled...have mercy...b/c I don't know how to quote, but I'll do my best to answer your reply... WHY UTTER DISREGAR? When my kids are bored, thirsty, mad, etc. They complain and grieve me to no end! They even try to do things on their own way. They aren't wise enough always to make the best decisions and they will disobey and sometimes hurt themselves, or even philisophically go in a bad direction and have to be put on a better path. The one phrase answer that is the easiest though would be: We are foolish beings who think we know more than our Creator. I am sure that if I can be so angered by my kids...God is extremely angered by the ones who He is trying to set up for paradise...when they refuse to obey his rules. Kids utterly disregard their parents the same way! We're stupid humans! All of us. NOW::: the REASONS FOR THE RULES: Were varied. Environmental conditions, control issues, He was teaching them too...during their wilderness experience. He was in the midst of setting them apart as a people; strengthening them along the way. Then there was the preparation for what the prophets would begin to experience...foretelling of a savior. IS THE BIBLE A CLEVER COMPILATION? No. The books of the bible have been highly criticized by some very intelligent people. I am sure you have read the debates about biblical origins and Canonized material...But each book was included by a team of people (biased and unbiased) but they all were in final agreement of the books that were canonized. Please research that...I don't have enough background to summarize it here. my NIEZSCHE comment ... well he was so antiGod but his writings haven't been dumped, or banned, disregarded...why should the Bible be?

Please forgive the crude format, but I don't know how to use the quote features . thanks.

**by the way...I have been told not to post on here by a friend of mine, but I enjoy reading all your posts and usually everyone on here is fairly accepting of posting ineptness. Thanks for giving me a chance to post my opinions too

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Dont worry Thistled Badmedia is not a bible thumper .......he recommends ..only reading the red letters which were Jesus words and the first four books...Which for a smart guy he should know that Jesus did not write any of the bible ..so even Mattew Mark Luke etc should be suspect to him (since he is so paranoid about Paul ) ... ..And Matthew Mark Luke and John spoke highly of Paul in their books ...and there are many verses in those books regarding Paul and yet Badmedia thinks Paul was a false teacher etc .......so any of his books he would tell you to toss out .
I keep asking the question that if Paul was a bad bad man ..false teacher etc then why didnt the HOLY SPIRIT filled APOSTLES not kick him to the curb and rebuke him every time he talked or at the very least lay hands on him and pray for him to be set free from satan ?...and why would they take him in and teach him etc ....and even helped hide him out etc when he was running from the authorities ..they also called him their BELOVED brother ....Which brings me to my other question he cant answer .Why did the authorities kill him if he was one of the bad guys ? >>Why did they chase him down (thinking him to be a threat ) and kill him ...They wouldnt have ..

If Matthew Mark Luke and John all accepted Paul ..then maybe they were false teachers too eh and those books should not be accepted either ? (NOT but why doesnt Badmedia think about that?)

Actually, I only recommend seeking the truth for yourself. But those are the 4 books I accept and see truth in. Revelations as well, although I don't claim to understand it all.

And who wrote the books, who accepted who and so on doesn't really matter to me. That stuff can easily be written down as such. As I told you before, I did not learn from the bible. I found the truth on my own, and the path and understandings were given to me similar to the way I described things in that faith and quantum physics post. It was not until after I learned these things that I started to see random quotes of Jesus here and there that got me to notice the bible at all. And then when I read Jesus I understood exactly what he was saying. So it has nothing to do with who wrote the books or any of those other things you seem to think I'm basing my choices on. Those books have meaning for me because of the words of Jesus. Not because of the idol, but because I recognize what I was taught in him.

By this same token, when I read the words of Paul I see exactly what I was taught and shown not to do. And this is why I don't accept those books. There are some things where he says really nice things, but overall he is paying lip service to the idol of Jesus.

Widely known that they did have problems with Paul. So I'm not sure what the point is there. But later on, anyone who didn't go along with the version of Paul was persecuted. Paul's writings make up more than all the disciples who actually walked and recorded Jesus combined.

The authorities kill people all the time. Even the pharisees were killed for their beliefs back then at times. You either go along with authority, or you are killed. That simple.

You accept the bible as authority. I do not. I didn't accept what was handed to me, I asked questions and found answers and understanding. And people who lack such things deny it in others and assume they only learned from the bible, or that it is the only way.

I speak of the narrow path, not the widened path the church has given.