The British have something to say to us Americans!

reply to post by burdman30ott6


I think your signature is really ironic, are firearms not to blame for the troubles?

Originally posted by Thistled
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

I think your signature is really ironic, are firearms not to blame for the troubles?

My signature is intended to be a big middle finger to those who voted for Obama and is a spin off from the "Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing their idiot" bumpersticker that came out shortly after Bush was elected.

and no, forearms are not to blame for the trouble... people are to blame for the trouble. Personally, I'm one of those so-called "gun-nuts" with a concealed carry permit who will NOT be handing over any of my firearms regardless of what laws are passed or what freedoms are stripped. I am not alone, either. Unlike England and Australia, the US has more than a few diehards who would much rather go out in a blaze of glory than with a whimper and a puddle underneath them if the government ever comes demanding their firearms. It would NOT be a bloodless coup in this country.

Originally posted by Thistled
....aaaaannnd suppose you just get a little toooo drunk or angry with somebody at 2 in the morning?

Best to remove it from the equation really.

Much safer.

As an owner of a firearm, using it for something like this is unthinkable. Besides practice, it would never be fired in anger and only as a last resort. If someone is unstable enough to simply murder somebody--they are going to do it with a knife, vehicle, club, fist, arrow, etc. A lot of people are killed by drunks who are driving, the vehicle becoming a deadly weapon. Some are killed by those afflicted with road rage, again with a vehicle. So, lets ban all the above and why stop there? No sharp scissors, shaving implements, chainsaws, etc... Does the logic of this make sense to you?

Originally posted by Thistled
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

I'm sure there are a few stats in the US to support incidents of firearms / deaths and alcohol.

My point is, those stats will be lower in the UK, because we don't have the firearms, (sure there are some pockets in run down areas, but very rare) they are not part of the equation.

Remove the firearms, you improve probability of survival.

From

www.rense.com...
KENNESAW, Ga - Several Kennesaw officials attribute a drop in crime in the city over the past two decades to a law that requires residents to have a gun in the house.

In 1982, the Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed a law requiring heads of households to own at least one firearm with ammunition.

The ordinance states the gun law is needed to "protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants."

Then-councilman J.O. Stephenson said after the ordinance was passed, everyone "went crazy."

"People all over the country said there would be shootings in the street and violence in homes," he said. "Of course, that wasn't the case."

In fact, according to Stephenson, it caused the crime rate in the city to plunge.

Kennesaw Historical Society president Robert Jones said following the law's passage, the crime rate dropped 89 percent in the city, compared to the modest 10 percent drop statewide.

Originally posted by carole9999

Originally posted by Thistled
....aaaaannnd suppose you just get a little toooo drunk or angry with somebody at 2 in the morning?

Best to remove it from the equation really.

Much safer.

As an owner of a firearm, using it for something like this is unthinkable. Besides practice, it would never be fired in anger and only as a last resort. If someone is unstable enough to simply murder somebody--they are going to do it with a knife, vehicle, club, fist, arrow, etc. A lot of people are killed by drunks who are driving, the vehicle becoming a deadly weapon. Some are killed by those afflicted with road rage, again with a vehicle. So, lets ban all the above and why stop there? No sharp scissors, shaving implements, chainsaws, etc... Does the logic of this make sense to you?

Yes I will repeat again. Remove this element from the equation and the probability of survival improves.

Look at your nations statistics and remove mis-use of firearms and you will see a drop in the numbers of deaths. Improve your chance of survival, bin the guns.

For the record, NO the UK is not up in arms about the lack of firearms. 99% of Brits would say, nah - bin them.

reply to post by tensetek


Fantastic video.

Big thumbs up for posting it !!

If I could give you a millions Flags, I would.

If the British government would have asked me simply, what will happen if we ban all guns, with about 10 seconds of thought, I would say the following:
Crime will increase as criminals will not care about the gun ban AND they will know that any house or business they break into, WON'T HAVE A GUN.
The criminals will know for certain that people will not be able to defend themselves so they will be easy pickens.

I can't believe people in the government are so immensely STUPID as to think this was a good idea.

And putting an innocent man in jail for defending his own life is an obscene perversion of justice.

GET INVOLVED IN YOUR GOVERNMENT PEOPLE BEFORE THEY DECIDE YOU CAN'T !!!!

Our governments have forgotten that they are
OF THE PEOPLE
BY THE PEOPLE
and
FOR THE PEOPLE

I think that protest in the video is a great way of reminding them.

One of my favorite quotes:
"Those who would relinquish liberty to gain security, deserve neither and will soon lose both."-Benjamin Franklin
He was one of the Founding Fathers of The United States of America and if he were alive today he would be sickened to see what has happened in England and in America.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by jfj123]

This thread is getting ridiculous.

It's all about having a balance. People who cant be trusted with firearms should not be given them FULL STOP.

On the other hand, those who have a good reason to own one should not be banned from owning them just because of a few bad apples.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that firearms be given out wholesale to the masses, without first checking who you are giving them to or making any effort to track them. That would obviously be sheer madness to do in the UK today.

If you look at Switzerland, where they have compulsory military service, and every male over the age of 25 is required by law to keep an assault rifle on his premises, they have much lower crime rates, practically no illegal guns/knives, less armed robberies etc.

The UK is not Switzerland, but it shows us that guns are not the problem, it's the people/government.

In a civilized society, there is no reason why responsible people should not be allowed to own firearms, as long as it's properly regulated.

the same # that happened in Finland..there were two schools shootings in one year, 20 got killed, and now people can't get guns anymore

I'm 42 y/o and haven't even seen a gun in my life, apart from once passing through Heathrow Airport when I saw an armed police officer (hugely shocking sight, I have to say).

Handguns were banned in Scotland following the Dunblane massacre, when 16 primary school children & their teacher were shot dead by a deranged man ... the public wanted guns banned & that was that. It wasn't the politicians forcing it on us, there was just an overwhelming groundswell of opinion against handguns. For once the government acted.

As to foxhunting, the most effective weapon we have against those little bleeders is the car. I tend to think Darwin's evolution theories can be safely disproved, foxes still leap lemming-like into the paths of oncoming traffic, there's no supergeneration of foxes evolving with a natural ability to nimbly weave through traffic.

Until they do evolve I'll continue to run them over & do my bit for hard pressed farming communities.

Originally posted by Thistled

Originally posted by carole9999

Originally posted by Thistled
....aaaaannnd suppose you just get a little toooo drunk or angry with somebody at 2 in the morning?

Best to remove it from the equation really.

Much safer.

As an owner of a firearm, using it for something like this is unthinkable. Besides practice, it would never be fired in anger and only as a last resort. If someone is unstable enough to simply murder somebody--they are going to do it with a knife, vehicle, club, fist, arrow, etc. A lot of people are killed by drunks who are driving, the vehicle becoming a deadly weapon. Some are killed by those afflicted with road rage, again with a vehicle. So, lets ban all the above and why stop there? No sharp scissors, shaving implements, chainsaws, etc... Does the logic of this make sense to you?

Yes I will repeat again. Remove this element from the equation and the probability of survival improves.

Look at your nations statistics and remove mis-use of firearms and you will see a drop in the numbers of deaths. Improve your chance of survival, bin the guns.

For the record, NO the UK is not up in arms about the lack of firearms. 99% of Brits would say, nah - bin them.

It should not be unbelievable that Brits moved to ban their right to own firearms. The strong courageous individuals immigrated to the new world to free themselves from oppression, while the weaker stayed behind.

I think some of the US members here are really getting confused about Britain's gunlaws and what the British think/feel about guns.

In the UK, guns have NEVER been about defending oneself for well over 100 years or so. Guns in the UK were/are owned by SPORTSMEN or farmers, ghillies and target shooters.

Gun crime in the UK is done with illegal firearms not with legally owned firearms with a few exceptions in the past, ie: The Dunblane Massacre by Michael Ryan, which resulted in the ban of handguns and military style weapons.

99% of the UK public has never owned a firearm of any kind and are simply not interested in owning one either. It has never been a right to own one.

To conclude, we British have never had a gun culture and therefore the majority do not have 'anything to lose' by having some form of gun control as it really does not affect most people.

I hope that has clarified a few points.

I expect my post to go over like a fart in church, but here goes.

1) The British had something to say to America and that is why the founding fathers wrote the Articles of the Confederation and ultimately the Constitution as they did...the 2nd amendment in this case.

2) If you can point me to England's written Constitution I will be impressed
think "common law"

3) We will never lose our handguns.

4) The argument about we having any uninfringable "Rights" is a bit naive.
You don't have a 1st amendment right of speech when you yell "fire" in a crowded theatre. You don't have a 2nd amendment right to go buy an unregistered tank or bazooka. You don't have the fundamental right to an abortion after a certain period of time. and so on.....

5) You may hate "regulations" and because we the winds of popular mories ebb and flow we are going to experience less restrictions at times and more restrictions on times and on different issues. Now, fighting against regulations in an area that is important to "you" is worthy and should be done....but at least understand that a protected "Right" is not going to be entirely lost and believe it or not, SCOTUS, has its hands tied when it comes to protecting the Constitution in its most clear expressions.
...we will never be asked to turn in our guns....rephrase...we will never be "compelled" as law abiding citizens, to turn in our hand guns and hunting rifles........yep, if Congress wanted to "repeal" the 2nd amendment they could....like prohibition was....(now, could you fathom even one bi-cameral member proposing such a Bill?! end of career.)

6) We American's (me) have something to say to the Brit's.......
Get a written constitution.....it has done a pretty good job for US.

We Brits DO NOT want a gun culture.

As a previous poster stated, we Brits probably have more freedom of speech and more freedom in general than those in the US - and we don't do guns.

Hey guys we are still here and we are still free.

C'mon - try it.



[edit on 26/1/2009 by Thistled]

Originally posted by Niall197
I'm 42 y/o and haven't even seen a gun in my life, apart from once passing through Heathrow Airport when I saw an armed police officer (hugely shocking sight, I have to say).

Handguns were banned in Scotland following the Dunblane massacre, when 16 primary school children & their teacher were shot dead by a deranged man ... the public wanted guns banned & that was that. It wasn't the politicians forcing it on us, there was just an overwhelming groundswell of opinion against handguns. For once the government acted.

Since we are on a conspiracy site: would it not be plausible the killer in question was an under cover "mind controlled" agent? It would be naive to think this as silly. MK Ultra was a declassified psych ops run by a three letter agency in the nineteen fifties and sixties. It is still thought, by some, as active today under a different code name. Who's to say that chaotic random shootings happening in the the US (the Beltway Sniper, Columbine and many others) are not a conspiracy to get the American people to relinquish their right to own and use firearms in self defense?

What better way for a repressive government or coup to convince an armed society to eventually go along with giving up their rights in the name of false security? Is there anyone else out there seeing what I'm seeing or is this site just getting weak in its old age?

C'mon people! Independent thinkers unite! Use your heads! It's the only peaceful way for a society to give up its only protection against tyranny!

Open your minds and your hearts now and think about this premise very carefully...nothing crazy happens by accident. There is always an agenda behind it. 9/11 may not be the last possible false flag terror operation to have happened here in the U.S.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by TheDarkNight]

reply to post by TheDarkNight


Just what ATS is all about!

I've given you my first ever star!

Great post.

Im from UK, England, Leeds. and believe me - if guns were legal over here, things would be mental.

At the moment, theirs around 400 reported gun crimes a year, in the whole of England, Scotland, Wales and North Ireland. And maybe 20/400 are fatal.
Murders are very low also, with around 20 reported homicides a year?

America has maybe 100,000 reported gun crimes a year?
You have around 300 homicides in Los Angles alone a year?

You got to remember also, where there is legal guns - and shops u can go in and buy. Then it more than doubles the chances of weapons getting into wrong hands - E.g Gangster, Terrorist, young people in gangs - loads more.


Therese not cameras on every corner, we have allot of speed cameras, and everywhere in town has got a camera - but not residential place "Aka Suburbs" (maybe on shops yeah)

Guns should not be legal. There is so many situations where a person can loose their cool, and use their gun - and it does happen allot in around the world, where guns are legal. you take away the gun, then that's 1 bad situation avoided.

no matter what anybody try's to say, guns are bad. in any case.

Wow. Just wow. When you think your government at least TRIES to help you (we all know how much some can fail at this for known or unknown reasons), this is just horrible.

The criminals will always have guns.

The law abiding citizens will (as by the name), always follow the law.

Why punish the citizens with a way to defend themselves?

American homes are filled with guns, and as long as you steer clear of the normal gang and criminal activity, not once should you have to face the barrel unless you are just one unlucky victim of a crime.

I do not have much to say except that I am disgusted by the ruling that farmer received.

The NWO is using fear to disarm us. They used 9/11 to push the patriot act, which resulted in the loss of many civil liberties, and privacy. They used the "financial crisis" to scare people into submission, in the form of a 700 billion treasury heist. They use "gun violence" into scaring the populace into thinking disarming themselves is a good thing. The only problem is, only law abiding people will abide by the law. Hence gun control does nothing. Criminals will hang on to their guns. I am not a "gun freak" I dont even own a gun, but I dont want anyone telling me or my countrymen we cant. That is FASCISM.

reply to post by TheDarkNight


Yes but in government of the people the people rule. If the people did not want guns to be legal then they should have been banned. My question is if that same deranged man would have gotten a gun anyways even if they were illegal?

The question I still hold is how a government could punish this farmer!?

And yes, I am aware of sentences in the U.S that are along the same lines.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa

6) We American's (me) have something to say to the Brit's.......
Get a written constitution.....it has done a pretty good job for US.

Did we not? Is that not what the Magna Carta is all about?

Our constitution is based on that is it not? Check Wiki on Magna Carta.