Baroness Tonge: "Israel stands accused of war crimes witnessed by the whole world"

Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by Dracula23

 

Try to ignore him. I don't think hes made a valid or coherent point since the war in Gaza began.

Darfur is the hypocrisy that no Arab can deny. 400,000 people killed and 2 million refugees. The government of Sudan (Arab dominated) is committing ethnic cleansing on the indigenous African population. Darfur is the real Gaza. And Arabs are the real Nazis. Ask any Arab living in the westbank or gaza if he cares about the Africans of Darfur. They probably don't even know the name. Ignorance is pathetic.

Uhmmmmmm.... would you care about what is happening to other people if someone was dropping bombs all around you? You know, since you have the audacity to speak of coherence. I'm sure the people of Gaza could give 2 pieces of rats crap for whats happening around the world, and I don't blame them. Same as I could not blame the people of Darfur for not caring about whats going on in Gaza... lets not even get into how could they know whats going on around the world, many of them don't have homes much less televisions. But you are right "Ignorance is Pathetic."

You guys need to stop with the Darfur stuff. You make it sound like not enough people are dead in Gaza to make a case for it. Maybe the world should let die 1 million in Gaza before they matter as well. Is this what you want.

reply to post by psyko45


I was replying to sunray...sorry

reply to post by psyko45



disreguard that reply spacepunk...I got a little confuuuuuuuzed

reply to post by setfree


Nuthin' gunna happen.

And even Obamy will be told to veto the case against them,
The only winners will be layers, but I'm pretty sure that the White
House is going to picked Israels Tab.

reply to post by setfree


Comrad "setfree" I don't believe that Israel is to be held responsible for war crimes. I do believe that people in the Israeli government and military should be held responsible, but not Israel.

Its like saying that America is to be held responsible for war crimes in Iraq; no, only the people that were in on the crime are guilty of the crime, not all of America, nor all of Israel.

I hated to see the people in Gaza being killed like they were, I also hate it that they are pinned in like animals, that is not right.

I do believe the Israeli people that killed innocent people in Gaza should be put to death, but do not blame all of Israel, because their people probably have less voice in their government than Americans have in their government, we all know how governments are, they do as the leaders that have control wish.

Bush will not be put to death for the over 1 million Iraq people that lost their lives and the over 2 million Afgan people that lost their lives, not including all of the people that are injured or displaced or lost all they had in both countries. Bush should not have let Israel do as they did to the Gazans.

reply to post by psyko45

With all due respect to the roots of the seeds of this conflict..NO MATTER HOW FAR YOU HAVE GONE DOWN THE WRONG ROAD TURN BACK.
I am not seeking soley to criticize Israel here..we all bear a burden for allowing these act's of violence to continue RACHEL CORRIE stood up and said NO and paid the ultimate price for supporting the people THE PEOPLE of Palestine.
How many United Nations Aid workers were shelled and killed doing the same thing in Gaza? I sit in safety because others paid the price in blood for my freedom...I also stood up and picked up arms and took an oath to defend the country I now call my home ..I wore the uniform and took the commands and did my duty..never a shot fired in anger unlike today.
What are we to do? Continue to be cowed into silence by the JDL and Bnai Brith...avert our eyes..? NO its time to stop this unwarranted deification of Israel the blanket justification of every excess under the rubrick of State survival. Not my grand parents or yours or theirs..there has to be a better way...TRUTH not lies...truth genocidal attacks, starvation, policy that places the burden and the consequences of sporadic rocket attacks on the women and children if Gaza is cruel and inhumane..
Hamas Hezbolla Islamic Jihad..the names dont matter..there are some that will prefer war to peace no matter what Israel does or does not do..time will weed them out. 1 st EQUALITY under the LAW..no special rights for Israeli's over ARABS. or vice versa...thats the cornerstone..no more we are the chosen ones...NO MORE APARTHIED laws and residential demolitions , no more settlers occupations...Resolve yourselves to being fair in the assignment of lands and property's apply the fairness and respect that you would like to receive to your neighbors..and do that unfailingly.
I would like the UN to step in and divide the party's and stay there until time ends if thats what it takes..North Korea and South Korea, Germany and East Germany made it and are making it..so WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH can't Israel and Palestine CO EXIST in a watchful peace? Truly personally I am sick to death of this conflict and the attitudes and actions of both parties
The lobbying of AIPAC the Arab countries willingness to fund this conflict it is all like some great sickness...a human sickness..
What will you do when Iran gets a nuclear weapon? Bomb them? and start a conflict that will consume the very nation you seek to protect? Smarter people than you and I had better grab the reigns because if the dogs of war are let slip..then God help us all the living will envy the dead.
If you want peace..then make peace..if you want war then carry on as you are..I have nothing of value to add to this discussion...for 46 years of my life this conflict has waxed and waned flared and blazed the only thing left now is the unspeakable conclusion .. because PEACE does not seem to be a likely out come of OPERATION CAST LEAD.

People call all Palestinians "innocent civilians", except the ones that blow themselves up/fire rockets.

There are no innocent humans anywhere. People, be they men, women, or children, all start as monsters, disagree? Read "Lord of the Flies"

There are only people who ask for it, and those who don't.

So, two kids can't stand eachother, and they always get in fist fights. It just so happens that one is much larger than the other. Over a few weeks, the smaller kid pokes the larger one constantly every day, dispite the warnings that the larger one gives him. So when the small one steps up his poking rate one day, the larger one beats him up, both sides fight dirty, and at the end of the day, the larger one has only a bruise, while the smaller one is beaten to a pulp. When the principle calls them in, he is extremely angry with the larger one for taking it so far, (and timely forgets that he knew about, and could have tried to stop the fight), and using dirty tricks that are against the rules of combat between honorable adversaries. The larger one feels justified in his attack and says "He provoked me". The principle replies "He was only poking you, surely someone as big as you can take a couple pokes". The larger one replied "It's the thought that counts", he knew that if the smaller one was large, the large "smaller" one would have killed him, given the opportunity. Ah, but the principle does not care, he only cares about the small innocent victim that was brutally assulted.

As I've stated in numerous other threads about this conflict. Israel imposed the blockade for a couple of reasons I can think of.

1: they were trying to make things so horrible in Gaza that they thought a civil war might break out and either replace the leadership with a more desirable one, or they would likely kill each other off which would suite Israel fine.

2: They new the end result of desperation(no food, intermittent electrical power, cutting off fuel, medical supplies, etc, etc), imagine taking pain killers and eating grass and weeds because that's all there was.Times Online. This would result in Rocket fire into Israel and they wanted that because for every rocket fired it gave them an excuse to go in and level time and time again. Let's not forget Mossad assassinations during the cease fire.

I don't know about you, but any country that blockaded my country and forced my fellow countrymen and women into starvation. Your damn right we would do something about it. If said country then invaded and happened to be within range of our weapons, your damn right said country would be getting bombarded.

Would you just sit back and take? Hamas sucks the big one and are guilty also of war crimes. But not on the same plane as Israel. They have a sophisticated military thanks to the US taxpayers and the number of "Accidents, Mistakes, Collateral Damage" is unacceptable. Baring the press from covering it shows that they didn't want the world to know what was going on.

The reason the Western powers aren't condemning Israel is probably self evident. However, I think the most overlooked possibility is that Israel is blackmailing those powers over a tit for tat sort of deal. They get accused of war crimes they bring up some dirt on those powers involved. I'm sure Mossad has a few dosiers and such somewhere full of sordid tales about other countries.

I've seen videos and still photos of numerous incidents of WP use in civilian areas. The death toll comparison is quite telling also.

It's gotta stop and the boundaries of the last land settlement claim be honoured.

reply to post by SpacePunk



1,200 people killed in Gaza = the whole world protests

400,000 people killed in Darfur = nothing

Hypocrisy is the act of preaching a certain belief, religion or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself.

This is my last reply to you. Hopefully you can understand that life equals life and the so-called Palestinian people are no better than the Africans murdered in Darfur. If come out in support for the people of gaza then you had better come out in support for the people of Darfur.

Originally posted by Founding
Darfur is the hypocrisy that no Arab can deny. 400,000 people killed and 2 million refugees. The government of Sudan (Arab dominated) is committing ethnic cleansing on the indigenous African population. Darfur is the real Gaza. And Arabs are the real Nazis. Ask any Arab living in the westbank or gaza if he cares about the Africans of Darfur. They probably don't even know the name. Ignorance is pathetic.

ignorance IS pathetic.
how are these "arabs" who know nothing of darfur or africa supposed to "deny" something they know NOTHING about?
the people being killed in gaza somehow responsible for darfur because they are ARAB, and because of darfur, it's okay justifiable to pour white phosphorous on children in gaza if you're not an arab?
wow.

wide brush you paint with. people are individuals. ALL are "ignorant" of something except the almighty creator.


edited to turn 'no' into 'know', lol!

[edit on 25-1-2009 by billybob]

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Similar scenario....
a childcare centre filled with little kids happily playing. Someone shoots off a bullet, it doesn't hurt or injure anyone but made alot of noise. So then another guy comes along and drops a missile from a plane to kill the evil man with a gun?

Is that what you're saying?

Jenny Tonge,George Galloway and the retired Tony Benn are the three best British politicians of the last 30 years.
They were willing to sacrifice their careers for their principals.
They wouldnt compromise their values for a cushy government appointment because it would mean becoming a member of the labour friends of Israel in the case of Galloway and Benn and liberal friends of Israel for Tonge.
I salute them all.

reply to post by Founding


oh. another one.

how about the two million dead iraqi deaths america caused through direct murder, or through starvation and poverty since daddy bush began the holocaust in 1992?
the mother of all wars.
no.
another bastard child of the mother of all wars, ie. cain and abel.

one atrocity is not belittled by another more volumetric atrocity. all atrocities are atrocious.

Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by Dracula23

 

And Arabs are the real Nazis. Ask any Arab living in the westbank or gaza if he cares about the Africans of Darfur. They probably don't even know the name. Ignorance is pathetic.

so, gazan arabs are nazis because their schools, roads, infrastructure, tv and radio stations are blown to pieces so they can 'know' what is happening in distant countries?

they don't even know where darfur is...

...

your 'logic' escapes me

Ok... back to the topic. I found this article. It's from Al Jazera but very objective. Israel will get away with war crimes because of the following....

First, individual war crime cases would ordinarily be referred to the International Criminal Court (ICC).

"The ICC simply doesn’t have jurisdiction over this conflict," says Ellis, "because Israel has not signed up to the Rome Statute [that enshrined the ICC]."

As the ICC requires states to adopt the court’s jurisdiction, it is unable to bring any actions against non-signatories itself, unless the UN Security Council votes to refer specific cases for potential prosecution.

While that happened when ICC prosecutors accused Omar al-Bashir, the president of Sudan - another non-signatory state - of committing war crimes in Darfur, it is unlikely to occur in relation to the Israel-Gaza conflict.

Gaza is not formally recognised as a state by the UN and "the US, and perhaps other [security council] member states, would veto any resolution that would ask for the ICC to investigate Israel," says Ellis.


Israel has been condemned of using white phosphorus in attacks [GALLO/GETTY]
"The ICC option is effectively closed."

english.aljazeera.net...

The will get away with the war crimes because Gaza is not considered a state.... ? So they have eliminated Palestine and Palestinians... now it's Gaza, and Gaza isn't significant enough to mean anything.... or even be included on a world map.

What happened to that 2 State Solution Lie that included Palestine?

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Obliterated]

reply to post by Obliterated


just some questions which i may ask to my self. why does Israel have the right to get weapons and not palestinians ( if palestinians does not have the right to get weapons how can they defend themselves? who decides in this world who have the right to defend himself? UN? if so both Israel and America are already not respecting the world 'UN' rules mmm in this case why we just keep watching these illegal actions ) I'm against getting weapon and having war i just find strange that some countries in this world have more right than others where is justice ?? if justice is a lie why do we blame terrorism? i'm totally againt every action which has the subject to kill any human in this world but i still find strange that we are looking and discussing a fact which is simple there is no need to be smart to see what happens. i really wanted to forget any feeling about this story and make a reaonnable point of view on this so i tried to find out info on internet on well known sites some online encyclopedia..... i found there everything about the birth of the problem. we simply want ppl to accept what we dont accept for ourselves dont they have the same right as we have? if we are neutral why we support one part and not the other if we dont want illegal killing of citizens why we accept that others do it(everybody is supporting israel with weapons the whole world gave them the support to make they own weapon and now we are surprised that they use these weapons)?

reply to post by kozmo

ZIONISTS IN ACTION ARE CELEBRATING THE DEATH OF THE GENTILES !

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Obliterated


It's not really down to Gaza/Palestine not being a formal state, it's down to the US vetoing every Resolution that comes to the table that implicates Israel for any blame or criticises them. I think the US has vetoed somewhere like 20 or 30 such resolutions.

After 3,000 Katusha rockets pound into Israel, I do not blame them for going into GAZA. HAMAS is the same as SADDAM, putting people in harms way as human shields,and then going into the supply center and shooting rockets into ISRAEL, and shooting st people from the roof tops . These terror organizations want everyone to blame ISRAEL NO WAY they are noting but thugs and terrorists

reply to post by stumason


Have you noticed the shift though? They used to be referred to as Palestinians. And it used to be Palestine. Now it has been reduced to Gazans and Gaza. Palestine has been wiped out.

In 10 years time when someone tries to research it are they going to google Gazans and not realise that Palestinian history exists.