Women: They deserve respect.

reply to post by Wisen Heimer

I pity the fool who thinks he is above women. You are above nothing. We are equals and can only survive in equality for that is the reality.

Are you saying that every christian, jewish, muslim man is a fool ?

If yes and and many other women choose to think like you , Brilliant ! more women for me to "live compassionately and equally with "
Just kidding around no offense intended.

God Bless all the hard working women out there!

Whether we realize it or not, the world would be a much worse place without them!
Who is it that makes sure the kids get off to school on time?
Who is it that remembers all the family birthdays?
Who is it that puts everyone else before herself?
Who is it that offers that little voice of reason when we men are about to do something stupid?

You may not all agree with me,and true,not all women fit this description,but if you've got one that does,then you are a lucky man!

Take a bow ladies!

reply to post by MrJelly


Now how does that saying go, we are judged by the company we keep?

Boring to hear yet again about "that stupid man/woman friend(s) I have which means all men/women are mostly that way!". Well, what does that say about you and the company you keep then?

Idiots of both genders plague the world.

I think most people on here would agree that humans need balance, between the thinking and the feeling aspects of ourselves. We call it the masculine and the feminine, because there is imbalance within our society and it is our observations of the qualities usually expressed in the genders. When the masculine side of you is dominant, you favor logic, and when the feminine side is dominant you favor feelings and intuition.
Some people may say that others have to earn their respect, if this is how it is then we would all be even more imbalanced because we don't respect the opposite gender. It would just be like bickering back and forth:
man- "well, women haven't shown respect to me, so I am not going to show any respect to them."
woman-"Men have never respected me, so I am not gonna respect them either."
It would just be a never ending respect war between the genders. I think this is the problem that we face today, no one is willing to give their respect first. How sad?

reply to post by Wisen Heimer


Really... It's nice to hear everyone's opinions, but especially on a forum such as this, there is a trend in these opinions' becoming severely over-intellectualized, so we must be cautious when replying if not all the supporting evidence has been accounted for. In reality, it's much simpler.

Where did you get the inspiration to make such a heavy handed claim? Was it any particular incident, which compelled you to write this thread? These questions are much more interesting.

In the real world, there are limits and you know when or if you're about to get slapped across the face for slander or disrespect. In North America, anyway, we really do live in a female-dominated social environment. Where are you from? Which social forces (political, ideological, familial, pedagogical) have shaped your life? Are you male or female? The answer to these questions will provide a definitive conclusion as to the validity your assumptions. The Internet is fun. You can be whoever you want to be. You are also free to pursue the greatest number of intellectual concepts as you desire, as an agent free from one's identity and the social constraints such an identity creates.

However, the paradox here is that as a "virtual nobody" your opinions are just the random aggregate of arbitrary data, produced by non-existent variables, all defined within a very limited space for which to construct such conclusions. The thing is, purely hypothetical intellectual discussions always come to incredibly obvious and situation-unspecific conclusions.

Why not extend this discussion, because we all know the highly moderate, somehow conservative and universal path it is currently heading on, and we know exactly where it will end.

I'm still unsure why exactly people feel like they have to come to universal conclusions. I'm guessing they want more of their own personal opinion to represent a greater proportion of the whole. They don't want to feel like one small voice. Discussions such as these would be so much more constructive if people just gave their own opinions, specific to their own lives, thus forming a much more complete perspective of the issue at hand.

Incremental contributions produce the greatest ideas... by keeping everything for ourselves, we, in the process, lose everything that is unique of our personalities and society loses out on what such personalities might have added to the discussion. We strive to be everyone at once.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by cognoscente]

Women should deserve exactly the same amount of respect as any other member of the human species and nothing more. Above that I can only echo the wise words of George Carlin:

"The truth is that obedience and respect shouldn't be automatic. They should be earned and based on the parent's performance. Some parents deserve respect, but most of them don't, period."

Now substitute "parents" with "women", or "man" and it still applies.


Sincerely, M.


Edit: Can't believe I misspeeellled "Carlin"
...Twice

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Manawydan]

reply to post by cancerian42


There are enough idiots, selfish beings, manipulative people or those with downright Malicious intent that Respect SHOULD be earned.

Let me be clear; that isn't a license to treat people like crap. It is permission to treat them as perfect strangers until they earn your respect, and every stranger should get the same treatment.

I don't know if you've ever worked in any retail or public contact business, but you learn very quickly what sort of people inhabit our world.

reply to post by TheColdDragon

Okay, I get your point "treat everyone the same and like strangers". But now it goes to a new question, "how do you treat strangers?" I treat strangers with respect. And I don't treat any type of stranger with more or less respect than another. I even treat people with respect when they are disrespectful, always have and always will, most likely.

when two men fight and a winner assumes control the looser realizes his lose and submits to the winner and they enter a relationship of cooperation because the looser knows his place. But from my experience when two women fight the winner can almost never be determined, because the looser can't accept she has lost and must submit to the winners energy, they cant enter the relationship of mutal cooperation. albeit different circumstances can arise, this is just a generalization of my personal experience. Its only my opinion

p.s if u want to cuzz a police officer just start your sentence with "in my opinion" PEOPLE ARE STILL ALLOWED TO HAVE AN OPINION

pitz

reply to post by cancerian42


Generally with a modicum of caution in the back of your mind, and suspicion underlying until that is assuaged.

Respect is different from Manners though. It is impolite to treat people poorly whom you don't know.

reply to post by TheColdDragon

You mean I'm supposed to be scared of strangers? No thanks.

reply to post by cancerian42


Nowhere have I said you should be afraid of strangers, and to infer such is ingenuine.

Suspicion and Caution are not the same as fear. I would not expect you to leave your four month old with the first person you see when coming off a bus.

I also don't expect you to trust a hobo who has obvious substance abuse problems to watch your house while you're away in Florida for twelve months.

My point? Demonstrated.

Originally posted by cognoscente
In North America, anyway, we really do live in a female-dominated social environment. Where are you from? Which social forces (political, ideological, familial, pedagogical) have shaped your life?

First, I have to agree that women deserve respect. Adoration, adulation, awe ... we deserve it all

But I think that because our social and political thought has been male dominated for so long, we miss the real power that women always have wielded. So it's not so much that we disrespect women as that we undervalue their spheres of influence.

Historically, women have played the more important role in things like marriage negotiations – both when we're just talking about the girl from the next village and between kings and queens. Women (historically) set up and maintained the unofficial alliances of societies. Women have always been information wielders – specifically, information about relationships between people and between things.

Women have always exercised their power by pulling on strings that don't immediately appear connected to the event they're manipulating.

Because political talk is male-dominated, this kind of exercise of power has often been denigrated, ignored, or demonized. But those assumptions (I think) are crumbling now as we find ourselves in a world where the manipulation of information and relationships has started to take center stage. At the same time, women have been moving into previously male-dominated fields in politics and business, asserting power in traditionally masculine ways.

Very interesting thread, OP

With every group that says they are suppressed or oppressed lies in the aftermath of such an event that their voice is heard and given special rights and priveldges, another group or entity that becomes oppressed.

We see this happening today with Jews and Israel.
We see countless numbers of african Americans that believe that because they were once slaves, that they deserve special rights and priviledges.
Same thing with Mexico only it is a land dispute.

My favorite example is the feminist/gay rights movement that wants special rights and privileges that were designed for families (ie marriage) that are designed in the interest of raising children. So in affect it is a catch 22 and should these gay rights/feminist movements have their way, it would take impose on the rights of familys and children but more specically fathers who want to be a part of their childrens lifes but are cut out by the legal system.

There is no right answer other than the fact that when one side gains power, the other side loses power. The whole damn "system" needs to be dismantled and brought back to the basics.

Just to add to that I believe women have enough power and control already. Giving them any more would be absolutely dangerous.


[edit on 19-1-2009 by 12.21.12]

The only responsible solution is to realize that the system in it's current form has never been fair and balanced and never will be. For every special interst group that gains leverage there is another that loses leverage.

I am not saying women should not be treated with respect, cause they should be. But the manner we go about change is irresponsible to say the least and we need to adopt a better strategy and way of thinking.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
Suspicion and Caution are not the same as fear.

They come from fear, they are expressions of fear. If you didn't have fear, then there would be no reason for suspicion or caution.

I would not expect you to leave your four month old with the first person you see when coming off a bus.

That wouldn't be very responsible, no. But what would that have to do with respect? That is quite disrespectful to the baby and to the person with whom you have just dumped your child.

You cant put the blame on anyone because no one is guilty. Realizing one and equal and actually living one and equal you will understand what I say. No one is to blame. All is equal as one. Realizing that you realize that your responsible for other peoples actions and not just your own.

As far as how I got to this conclusion. I am a male speaking from a male perspective. I know that both my father and mother fit into the masculine conscious and the feminine conscious. My father never displays his emotions, is oblivous to any form of spirituality, seems not capable of expressing love, and comes to the conclusion that almost everyone is just stupid. Which is a form of seperation.

My mother is more compassionate and actually agrees with some of the things I say. She definitly has some masculine qualities, but unlike my father there is definitly some sort of deep connection that we share besides just being objects of son and parent. Seperation. I am not equal in my fathers eyes because he displays an authority figure and I am suppost to, "Do as Im told." so to speak.

Im not sure which category I fall into. Masculine/feminine. I used to be a complete robot. Not that I didnt feel, but I was not capable of properly expressing myself and I denied my feelings. For a long time I ran on purely the mind alone. This is where I was unable to seperate illusion from reality because everything I thought was only potential. Anything could have been anything. Than I actually realized that I had a heart and began to follow that instead of my thoughts. It brought my great truth and another chance at life.

I think I am still fairly masculine in nature, but atleast now I know what the heart is and how to use it. The point is not to have one or the other, but a balance of both. You need the mind and the heart to be equal as one within yourself. If it is not equal a polarity will form. The mind will contradict and question the heart and the heart will be suppressed because of that. The point is to use the mind to assist the heart and the heart to assist the mind. They are both very important.

In modern society the masculine aspect of human consciousness without a single doubt greatly suppresses the heart. There is a disturbing imbalance to the point where most people wont even know what the heart actually is or how to use it. In most people you meet you will find this to be true.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Wisen Heimer]

Just be who you are, were all the same species after all. Earn the respect you want and get rid of the kind you don't want. Do so and we may actually get rid the bloody stereotype that says we have to be a certian way. Don't use words that seperate people that you want to help. Otherwise your a buggart to yourself and others.

I hope this is taken the right way, and some buggart doesn't twist it to something that makes me sound like a buggart. Well that and you'll be stuuborn like ghandi for your cause, wether buggarts like it or not. Each person has a cause sure they may not be the same, but no two people are the same.

This thread was started with the tiel about women and then the OP starts saying that men also have to be considered equal by women.

So surely this entire thread should just be named "People deserve respect". Pretty simple thing to grasp really.

men women and children all deserve respect, not one more than the other, but all as equals.

the biggest mystery which isnt a mystery of all
"respect yourself first" after you do that ,respect for everyone else comes easy.