Women: They deserve respect.

Originally posted by WishForWings
Some women will never gain respect.

Look at those who work in strip-clubs, brothels or plain old street walkers.

They sure as hell don't have my respect.

Alternatively, men who use women in those situations don't have my respect.

double post

[edit on 18/1/09 by paperplanes]

Originally posted by Ian McLean
So, you postulate that women can 'complete' men, and that completion is almost essential to a better world. Does that mean that homosexual couples are almost always in some way 'incomplete', and lacking from the harmony you describe?

I was hoping someone might bring this to the OP's attention; it was the first question I had after reading his/her post.

Originally posted by WishForWings
Some women will never gain respect.

Look at those who work in strip-clubs, brothels or plain old street walkers.

They sure as hell don't have my respect.

What about a female security guard, working in a "strip" club? I've seen them do they not deserve respect? and why would a woman (stripper) not deserve respect? are you so insightful as to "know" each woman's situation enough to exact such a judgemental approach? Does occupation effect weather or not you give respect to women?

reply to post by alyosha1981


To a certain degree yes it does, a female security guard isn't getting her "bits" out to everyone just for a few bucks hey.

Strippers are capable of finding other employment, they choose to do it. Surprisingly most of them actually enjoy it.

Who do you think is more respectable, a female surgeon or a stripper?

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Two sides of the same stereotype coin, projecting onto gender. It's a pattern that reduces us as people. When we flee from one we're all-to-quick to embrace the other, sometimes, it seems.

I fear that you are correct.

It is tough to rhetorically avoid such interpretative statements. Perhaps the distinction should be made that such statements be inclusive of a temporal/regional/personal bias (We need to coin a new word) to avoid the trap of being drawn into the subjective agreement of the statement as a contextual inclination...

I just shot my brain...

Originally posted by Wisen Heimer

Maybe we need more women in power.
I believe women are the only ones who can create this change for peace...

Hmmm... You seem to have forgotten about Maggie Thatcher and the Falklands War! How about Cleopatra or the Queen of Sheba? All ruled with iron fists and didn't mind a bit of bloodshed. I could keep going with the list but you only need one to disprove a point.

Though I understand what you're trying to say... It really hasn't proved to be true in the past. To take it in a slightly different direction, if you take an honest look at reality TV.. Big Brother, Survivor etc, you will often find that it's the women that are the most agenda driven & cattiest too... Not exactly sisterly love or female solidarity. The sisters really are doing it for themselves!!!

Originally posted by Wisen Heimer

I pitty the fool

Now you're quoting a great man! Sheesh!




IRM



[edit on 18/1/09 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by WishForWings


Honestly? Both of 'em, for actually getting off their asses and working, whatever job it is. If you've got to strip to put food on the table, then, fair enough in my opinion. End of the day, stripping can be damn good money, and if the woman can walk away at the end of the day with her head held high, then more power to her.

Just my $0.02.

The only reason women choose to sell their bodies and reputations is because men pay a lot of money for it. The only reason men pay lots of money to see them is to get sexual stimulation from it. Neither one I would call respectable, but I would still show respect to both. My mother is the kind of woman that if a guy really knew who she was they probably would not like her (stereotypical do anything to get what she wants). She cheated on her boyfriend of 11 years and used him for his money, but her reasons for this were that he only liked her because of sex and to be his "maid" (he was the stereotypical pig). Neither one respected the other (or even the opposite sex in general) and they were both completely opposite in terms of masculine/feminine imbalance, they both talked badly about each other (and still do), but they are both exactly the same, just like an apple and an orange, neither one is better or worse than the other.

Originally posted by WishForWings
reply to post by alyosha1981

 

To a certain degree yes it does, a female security guard isn't getting her "bits" out to everyone just for a few bucks hey.

Strippers are capable of finding other employment, they choose to do it. Surprisingly most of them actually enjoy it.

Who do you think is more respectable, a female surgeon or a stripper?

Well, as it goes both given examples exploit human weakness to benefit so I don't know if one deserves more respect then the other however the "sense" of self preservation seems to be more prevalent in the mind of say a "stripper" but with that being said, how many female surgeon's choose their career's based on the job alone discounting the considerable salary? Money is a motivator here, so unless the individual situation can be exacted upon I have no direct answer for you other then in the form of another question as stated above.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by alyosha1981]

Originally posted by WishForWings
Some women will never gain respect.

Look at those who work in strip-clubs, brothels or plain old street walkers.

They sure as hell don't have my respect.

Well SOMEBODY is paying them to do that, so it kinda goes both ways u know?... I mean what's worse , buying sex or selling it.

Respect is not something people deserve to be given just because they are people. Respect is something earned.

Respect is something you invest in someone whom you desire to be around, whose opinions and points of view you value.

It is not something that people "DESERVE" as individuals.

Now, positions demand some base line level of respect, Such as professionals in their fields; Police Officers, Judges, etc.

However, you can respect a position without respecting the person in that position, as it is not necessary that the position was filled by a competent or trustworthy person... but in many cases there are Positions which demand a modicum of respect.

Individuals, though? Individuals are not required to be given respect, and nobody should just dole out respect just because they're a man/woman/person.

On the subject of Strippers versus working women, If the Stripper enjoys what they do, who are you to disrespect that? Is it expected that everyone gets tied down into a dead end job they hate and despise but stick with it because it pays well? Is that preferable to showing your boobs and having guys shell out to see them and loving that power over the masculine gender?

If they like what they do, your respect or lack of it is meaningless and you should keep your opinions about strangers who may LIKE their lives to yourself.

That would be my two-pence.

reply to post by TheColdDragon

I believe that respect should be given to all, whether they have a respectable job or not is besides the point. It is a matter of empathy, treating others how you would like to be treated...
But I respect your view on this subject nevertheless.

First of all I have nothing but respect for women, dammit I love them. It's just ironic that they wanted to be treated equal but then want me to open the door for them and tell them how nice they look. None of my guy friends expect me to do that.

reply to post by TheVault40


I take it your not a homosexual?

Originally posted by WishForWings
reply to post by alyosha1981

 

To a certain degree yes it does, a female security guard isn't getting her "bits" out to everyone just for a few bucks hey.

Strippers are capable of finding other employment, they choose to do it. Surprisingly most of them actually enjoy it.

Who do you think is more respectable, a female surgeon or a stripper?

Well It depends on what you deem as respectable. Am I respecting the person or the profession? I've got a couple of friends (both college educated) that are strippers and they're great people. They simply found out that they can make obscene amounts of money exploiting stupid men. Some of them make 5 figures a week. SO I respect the fact that they earn more than 99% of the american population dancing on a stage. It's pretty honest actually. (you will pay me money to take my clothes off) Or you have the doctor / surgeon on the other hand that went to school for eons , starts off working stupid hours , begins her career in 6 figure debt (student loans / Malpractice insurance) and may one day be lucky enough to end up like doctor 90210 and charging people lots of money to fix cosmetic problems by preying on womens insecurites. (yeah you have a little bit of a "Pouch" there , lemme take care of that for you.) ... Ok that was a stretch... but I think there is something wrong with YOU if you don't respect someone without getting to know them.

Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by TheVault40

 

I take it your not a homosexual?

Lord no, that road aint for me. Everyone has there choice and mine is the ladies. I got nothin' but respect for them because they put up with a lot more sh!t that we men ever will.

reply to post by TheVault40


Oh, I thought you were being facetious in your last post. My bad. Thanks for the love on behalf of womankind.

Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by TheVault40

 

Oh, I thought you were being facetious in your last post. My bad. Thanks for the love on behalf of womankind.

No problem at all, that's what I'm here for. And upon looking at my original post I see how I could have worded that last sentence a little better.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by Wisen Heimer

Maybe we need more women in power.
I believe women are the only ones who can create this change for peace...

Hmmm... You seem to have forgotten about Maggie Thatcher and the Falklands War! How about Cleopatra or the Queen of Sheba? All ruled with iron fists and didn't mind a bit of bloodshed. I could keep going with the list but you only need one to disprove a point.

Though I understand what you're trying to say... It really hasn't proved to be true in the past.

I believe the idea of the gentle, compassionate aspect as wholly female is a myth that gained ground through ages of subjection of women. It was a characterization that was relatively easy to sustain because, quite frankly, men were happily oblivious to the true nature of women. We are in fact alarmingly complex creatures who (in general) bear a more precise emotional gauge, allowing us to become more adept manipulators than men. Until physical labor became a less common occupation in the past century, men were under the impression that their physical capabilities made them superior to females. A woman couldn't very well toil in the field with the same results a man might see, so childcare and housework became her toil (these roles were sustained even as alternatives to physical work became available). Men came home each day with a grin of pride, secure in the belief that they alone were sustaining the family and "bringing home the bacon". Their wives dependent upon them and apparently weaker than they, who could blame them for assuming she was inferior in all respects? I wonder what history would show if men had been collectively aware of the mental capabilities of females, rather than it being a secret of the "sisterhood". We are seeing a realization of this and it has been building for decades.

Of course, this is just my personal interpretation .

And yes, the male character has suffered under a self-suppression, an isolation and elevation of the most masculine qualities as the most honorable. I would trace this back to our beginnings, when brute force was the name of the game. As cultures become more liberated, I believe we'll begin to see a greater alignment of the genders--we are more similar that we like to believe.