The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

The Big Lie of the "Bible"

One of the most Satanic lies throughout all human history is that the idolatrous and pagan metaphysical doctrines taught by the Pharisee Paul are not a detailed and specific repudiation and contradiction of the Revelations received by Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Malachi and Jesus.

But that Big Lie is only one particular aspect of the conspiracy that has been going on for more than 2500 years: that the Doctrine of "resurrection" taught by Isaiah and Daniel, for example, is the pagan-Egyptian doctrine of a physical raising of a dead body from the grave; when, in fact, it is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

Human civilization has yet to suffer the consequences of pursuing such "doctrines of demons"...

Which is what the Prophecies of Daniel 12:1 with regards to the "time of trouble" are all about.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I was just wondering if you were ever going to answer the vast number of questions you have avoided throughout this thread? I thought the point was to prove the bible is the word of God? Am I wrong? You seem to be picking and choosing which arguments you are willing to attempt and which you will ignore. If you know God's perfect wisdom enough to defend his book, I am still curious about that 18,000 species of land animals number as well as some other things.

if that "seems" to be the case then most likely people I have "avoided" are asking me questions. When u have someone ignored you cannot read anything they post, yet they can read what you post. Perhaps it should not be this way, but I didn't set up the forum.

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
The Big Lie of the "Bible"

One of the most Satanic lies throughout all human history is that the idolatrous and pagan metaphysical doctrines taught by the Pharisee Paul are not a detailed and specific repudiation and contradiction of the Revelations received by Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Malachi and Jesus.

But that Big Lie is only one particular aspect of the conspiracy that has been going on for more than 2500 years: that the Doctrine of "resurrection" taught by Isaiah and Daniel, for example, is the pagan-Egyptian doctrine of a physical raising of a dead body from the grave; when, in fact, it is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

Human civilization has yet to suffer the consequences of pursuing such "doctrines of demons"...

Which is what the Prophecies of Daniel 12:1 with regards to the "time of trouble" are all about.

Michael Cecil

Do you even understand what the term "arbitrary" means?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Do you even understand what the term "arbitrary" means?

This is really a quite peripheral issue, as are most questions concocted by the 'thinker' for the purpose of obfuscating the one fundamental issue about the origin of consciousness:

Any consciousness which has no specific Memory of having been Created "by and in the image of God" (Genesis 1:27 & 2:7) was not Created "by and in the image of God".

Merely a belief that you were Created 'by and in the image of God' does not count. It must be an actual Memory.

In other words, your consciousness is either the consciousness of a "self" or the consciousness of a 'thinker'--symbolized in the Revelation of John as, respectively, the "beast of the sea" and the "beast of the earth".

You talk as one who has no such Memory.

Nothing you have said so far gives any indication whatsoever that you have received any such Memory.

The conclusion is straight-forward.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by Michael Cecil

Any assertion of 3 dimensions of consciousness are said to be "unscientific" and, for that reason, illegitimate.

That's because there's no evidence for the concept you support which honestly seems a vague and bizarre one. Science can only look for objectively verifiable phenomenon and use objectively verifiable evidence to explain them. Thus far this has done a wonderful job helping explain what we see and observe all around us, it has certainly done much better than religion.

The Revelations originate from that third dimension of consciousness outside of the consciousness of the "self", the 'thinker' and the scientific method.

So it is supernatural? This third dimension of consciousness is a spiritual realm then? Well then of course science cannot study it but then if evidence for it cannot be found believing it might as well be nothing more than imagining it.

Call me stuck in the dualistic mind all you want but without evidence there really isn't a reason to believe.

So, yes, Genesis and the Revelation of John contain information about the 3 dimensions of consciousness; to which the theologians respond by accusations of "heresy" and other things much worse.

Because this is just your interpretation and therein lies the Bible's problems, no one can agree on it. You say it contains Revelation about the 3 dimensions but aren't you using your two dimensional brain to reach that conclusion, if you claim to be using your 3 Dimensional non-dual spirit-brain than you are no different than a Christian claiming only they have the correct interpretation because of the "Holy Spirit".

I also hope you are aware that the Genesis account was heavily influenced by Sumerian creation stories. Are you telling me that these ancient people understood some deep esoteric statement about 3 Dimensional consciousness and coded it into a story about men being made from dirt and their being a glass dome covering the sky (firmament)?

Don't know what an OP is; so I can't address that.

OP stands for Original Post or in some cases Original Poster and is referring to the opening post in a thread. My opening post asks the question: The Bible, Man's Book or God's Word? Your ramblings are a fun bit of philosophy but I haven't seen you come down on either side of my question.

Every argument you raise I have heard at least a thousand times before.

I'm not arguing against you I'm trying to figure out what in the hell you are talking about and whether it has anything to do with my original post at all. Honestly I can't make heads or tails of most of what you are talking about, it all seems a load of pseudo-religious philosophical gobbledygook devoid of any actual meaning and having no bearing on the discussion this thread used to be about.

Don't let me take up anymore of your time, if you feel you are wasting it you can take your 3 Dimensional consciousness and be on your way

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

Thanks for the clarification about OP.

So, my responses, in chronological order:

1) The question you ask makes little sense. Some of the Bible is Revelation and conveys information from a dimension of consciousness beyond the "self" and the 'thinker'. The doctrines of Paul exist within exclusively the two normal dimensions of consciousness. In other words, parts of the Bible were created by man; other parts of the Bible consist of Revelations.

2) You say that science has done a "wonderful job of explaining". But, simultaneously, it has created technologies of destruction which will annihilate human civilization. So any "explanatory value" of science may be completely wasted because there will be no one left alive to appreciate such an 'explanation'. In other words, I would prefer no such 'explanation' at all to an explanation which will destroy civilization.

3) "Supernatural" is your term. It is not supernatural at all. It is a dimension of consciousness beyond the "self" and the 'thinker'. It is no more "supernatural" than Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity. The scientific method has certain inherent restrictions with regards to the understanding of consciousness. Those inherent restrictions make possible the creation of technologies of annihilation in the first place. This will be ignored to the peril of human civilization.

4) As I said, if the language of Revelation offends you, turn to the language of the Buddhist esotericists or J. Krishnamurti; neither of whom talk at all about Revelations or the belief in God. Their sole concern is escaping from the dimension of consciousness which is the source of conflict and violence. That is the non-dualistic dimension of consciousness I am talking about.

5) No I am not using any two-dimensional brain to draw these conclusions. The brain exists in 3 dimensions of space. This information originates in the 3rd quite natural dimension of consciousness.

6) Your statements about Sumerian creation stories or whatever is not relevant to the issue. I've read those; they are from the "self" dimension of consciousness more than the 'thinker' dimension of consciousness. Genesis specifically refers to the consciousness Created by and in the image of God in Chapter 1:27.

7) I am directly addressing your question. Part of the Bible was written by man from the normal two dimensions of consciousness. Other parts were written with information from a third--and quite natural--dimension of consciousness. So, the question has been answered. Now what? It seems that the whole point of your question was to produce a duality; an answer of either "yes" or "no", which is precisely what is most entertaining to the dualistic consciousness. And I am saying that there cannot be an either/or answer for reasons already stated.

It is only now that this discussion is really beginning to become interesting.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by Michael Cecil
I'll take it your answer is "NO" then.

It's impossible to debate with someone who doesn't even understand the fundamental rules of logical debate.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


It's not that he doesn't understand its that he seems to think logical debate would be part of some dual consciousness mumbo jumbo that needs to be transcended in order for us to set our minds free.

I honestly don't know what he's talking about.

reply to post by Michael Cecil


If science cannot discover this 3 dimensional consciousness and if it has NO effect on the real world than it is supernatural. But if it does effect the real world please give me an example.

Science has done a wonderful job explaining and some flawed human beings have used that understanding to forge weapons of war - that is the fault of those men not of science itself. The process, in the right hands, can do no harm but of course human beings are flawed and greedy so it has been used for destruction. But it has also been used to extend life, most of the people who are alive today would not be if it weren't for scientific advancement.

Their sole concern is escaping from the dimension of consciousness which is the source of conflict and violence.

Escape the dimension of consciousness? And be what? UNCONSCIOUS? So what about you, have you escaped from the realm of the "thinker"? How has that benefited your understanding of things to be outside the "thinker"? It seems to be that being a logical minded "thinker" can only be a good thing.

It seems that the whole point of your question was to produce a duality; an answer of either "yes" or "no", which is precisely what is most entertaining to the dualistic consciousness

Well the point of my thread, aside from the answer, is to get people thinking about what they were taught and how it makes no sense and how it keeps the corrupt in positions of power (The Pope, politicians who get elected because of their religious affiliation). But yes I did want a yes or no answer about whether the Bible was divinely inspired or not.

You say PART of it is inspired by this 3 dimensional consciousness, fair enough you've escaped my duality trap

It is only now that this discussion is really beginning to become interesting.

Perhaps for you but I still have very little idea what, if any, bearing your collection of philosophical ramblings have on anything in the real world. What is the practical application of these beliefs? How do they effect your every day existence?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

I'll take it your answer is "NO" then.

It's impossible to debate with someone who doesn't even understand the fundamental rules of logical debate.

Certainly, a comical statement from someone who claims to be following the Teaching of Jesus.

Look at the argument between Jesus and the Sadducees.

Did Jesus debate with the Sadducees?

Of course not.

He was spitting venom at them because of their stupidity.

How long did the argument continue?

(Certainly not anywhere near as long as this argument is continuing.)

Let me paraphrase the words of Jesus in his ridicule of the Pharisee doctrine mouthed by the Saddducees (and, later, by Paul):

"Are you bull*****ing me? Do you actually 'think' that dead bodies are going to come out of the grave at the resurrection? You sound like the idiot Egyptians. Give me a break. You stupid idiots don't have a clue as to the Power of the Creator. That is not what the "resurrection" is. The "resurrection" involves the memories of previous lives. Your question of 'Whose wife will she be?' has got to be one of the most ridiculous questions I have ever heard. What? You are going to believe the nonsense of the Pharisees too? Hell fire. Even Moses implied that people live more than one life. Moses. You know, Moses. Ever heard of Moses? No, I mean really. Have you ever even heard of someone by the name of Moses? Maybe you should read the Torah sometime. You know, just for kicks. Now go away and don't bother me anymore with such witlessness. Oh, you're going to kill me, huh? Go ahead, make my day. Then you will see what happens."

(A reverse speech analysis of Jesus' reply to the Sadducees has the phrase: "And then when I die, see what." Which would be meaningful even to a nitwit Christian.)

How's that for a "debate" with the Sadducees?

Michael Cecil

I am a Christian I believe in god with every ounce of my body while I am not an old person I have spent a lot of time and effort studying god and religion in general I do believe some where in the bible you can find truth but not in ever page its been corrupted by men over thousands of years to represent what they at that time wanted it to represent not what its original purpose was the bible as we know it was written by men created by men and above all the true message was corrupted by men I read somewhere before and it really stuck with me Jesus never came on this planet to start a new religion he just wanted to teach us to love one another

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I'll try addressing your points sequentially again; but I am 'thinking' of starting a new thread which deals very directly with the motivation for why the religious 'authorities' are censoring the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection".

1) the censorship of the Truth about the "resurrection" is for the purpose of preserving the economic interests of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious establishments. But, at the level of consciousness, its purpose is to preserve the dualistic consciousness at all costs. That is the "effect upon the real world": the military conflicts between Jews, Christians and Muslims in the Middle East which originate in the censorship of this Truth.; which censorship is necessary to preserve those economic interests.

2) No, not "unconscious". That is the other dimension of the dualistic consciousness. It is a dimension of consciousness other than both the "ego" consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious' or consciousness of the "self". It is a third dimension of consciousness altogether. How do you 'think' Newton would have responded to the Special Theory of Relativity? As not being logical, as being magical or supernatural. This is the characteristic of your response to what I am saying.

3) You really need to read some of the observations of J. Krishnamurti with regards to the origin of conflict and violence in thought itself. I cannot go into those arguments right now.

4) How do these things effect my everyday existence? I see meanings in dance and music videos and movies that are disregarded as utterly meaningless or as nothing more than coincidences by most people. Most people would prefer that those dances and movies have no meaning whatsoever than the meaning that immediately comes to me from another dimension of consciousness beyond the "self" and the 'thinker'.

To be perfectly honest, I sort of feel sorry for people who have no appreciation for poetry, the lyrics of songs and the symbolic meanings of dances. Such beauty is simply beyond comprehension to the consciousness of the 'thinker' although neither is it directly accessible to the consciousness of the "self".

Michael Cecil

reply to post by s.f.l.d


Thanks s.f.l.d

Although I am an atheist I still see the wisdom in much of Jesus's teachings. It is my opinion that he came to teach us to save ourselves through love instead of waiting around for a Messiah who would never show and then only after his death did his followers try to make him into the Messiah.

reply to post by Michael Cecil


I have plenty of appreciation for symbolism, metaphor, poetry and music. One does not need a 3 dimensional consciousness to find deeper meaning in things. Unless this third consciousness you speak of is merely the symbolic or emotional mind.

Exactly look inside you the truth is there its not for someone else to tell you how to live but for you to find your answers within. The bible is an introduction somethin ill give my kid to read through but after the intro you have to read the story too

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by s.f.l.d

 

Thanks s.f.l.d

Although I am an atheist I still see the wisdom in much of Jesus's teachings. It is my opinion that he came to teach us to save ourselves through love instead of waiting around for a Messiah who would never show and then only after his death did his followers try to make him into the Messiah.

(s.f.l.d?)

Now you're talking.

The concern about a 'messiah' who will 'save' people is a concern of a "self" and a 'thinker' Christian theologian and their followers; that is, it is a concern of the dualistic consciousness.

When such a concern is paramount, it is simply not possible to approach the Teaching of Jesus from anything approaching an objective perspective.

An "atheist", huh?

Then you probably have a better chance of understanding the Teaching of Jesus than does a Christian Ph.D. theologian.

Seriously.

I've talked to them.

Nitwits.

Just like the Sadducees and Pharisees.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

I have plenty of appreciation for symbolism, metaphor, poetry and music. One does not need a 3 dimensional consciousness to find deeper meaning in things. Unless this third consciousness you speak of is merely the symbolic or emotional mind.

I have to smile at this.

It is the consciousness of the 'thinker' that tells you that it is the source of all the information you have. But it's not.

If you can appreciate symbolism and music then you have a taste of what that third dimension of consciousness is all about, because it often speaks in words of symbolism; but not the commonly acknowledged symbolisms.

Look at the "beast of the sea" and "beast of the earth" symbolism in the Revelation of John. The theologians have any number of utterly bizarre 'explanations' for that symbolism; all of which are for the purpose of preserving their nitwit theologies.

But, if you turn to Jungian archetypal psychology, you will see that "sea" has something to do with the 'unconscious' (also in the opening passages of the Second Meditation of Descartes), and "earth" has something to do with the ego consciousness. That is strictly a Jungian archetypal perspective.

That is a taste of what that third dimension of consciousness has to say about those symbols; which is why I turn to the symbols presented in the dance videos to explain those dimensions of consciousness.

We're getting into some really technical issues here which are going to require me to explain a number of other things first.

Maybe.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by Michael Cecil


So the authors of Revelations used Jungian archetypes eh? An interesting idea, I was always under the impression that John was having an acid trip during his time on Patmos.

Is there somewhere where this interpretation is written down, because honestly I'd like to learn more but I'd rather not make you type it all out.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


First off: please make sure you are reading the material you are citing before incorrectly addressing it. The book of Job is a battle between God and Satan, where Satan said he could break Job and make him curse his God. The Lord didn't bring any bad upon Job, it was all Satan's bidding to try to get Job to speak against his God, in which he NEVER did.

Second: These stories of God killing children or anyone were from the Old Testament, when Jesus was not yet born... and this was when God was a very jealous and angry God towards people who did not follow him. These children were all being raised into utter sin anyways. God showed his power much more than ever... and if you turned your back on Him he would definitely make you understand. There wasn't a chance to be forgiven back in these times.

Regardless - these are the Old times.. our chance at salvation is much different than back then. These stories are meant to be a place-marker for how powerful God really is, and is meant to be harnessed by those who seek it.

We all have a chance for salvation now, and God is much more forgiving than these times you are addressing.

Bad mouth the Bible all you want, there's no difference with arguments these days towards Atheists and Christians. In essence both sides argue the same points over and over forever. What you really need to look at is your own lives, and what you are living for. Living by this book provided for us ultimately makes us better people by listening to the morals it teaches us.

What do you get out of life living in debauchery and cutting people down your whole life? Why not try lifting someone up and thinking there is more to life every once in a while? Why not help that person that fell down on the street rather than point and laugh at them?


If you really want to argue how US RELIGIOUS PEOPLE can live under this DISGUSTING GOD, take a read through the New Testament with an open mind, and get back to me. I read all sorts of atheist literature based off of pure reasoning and science without instantly criticizing everything they have to say... so it's not too hard to accomplish this and actually see what is out there. I'll tell you one thing though... it is much more fulfilling living a life believing in God.

Laters

reply to post by s.f.l.d


Tell me where in the Bible is it SO corrupted by man? Are you kidding me?

The Bible is thousands of pages of how God loves us, why we should fear and respect Him, how to remain righteous people and how to find our salvation through the Lord.

I am reading more of the Bible day in and day out, and if any of you actually picked it up and read the pages, you would see that this OMG CORRUPTION OF THE BIBLE is basically nowhere to be found in the pages.

The Bible was written by Divine Inspiration and actual words from the Lord, and preserved for us to follow... and even God states if man adds to it he will be taken out of the Book of Life.

The people who accuse the Bible of being bludgeoned with man's words think that it says all sorts of slanderous crap like bang your friend's wife, spit on your neighbors, or masturbate til the cows come home... but what you read is so much more beautiful than that.

OP you posted you actually like some of the words of the Lord despite being an atheist... these words are written all over the Bible for everyone to learn from. It is up to you whether you want to accept God in your life or not. We have free will, whether born with it or given it from a higher creator, and it is that which you can create faith out of and decide what you want to believe in ultimately.

But all in all... the Book has no tainted words in it..... I'll tell you if I come across them.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

So the authors of Revelations used Jungian archetypes eh? An interesting idea, I was always under the impression that John was having an acid trip during his time on Patmos.

Is there somewhere where this interpretation is written down, because honestly I'd like to learn more but I'd rather not make you type it all out.

(sigh)

The language I use is extremely precise. I've worked on this language for close to 36 years, reading probably thousands of books in philosophy, theology, psychology, the Eastern and monotheistic religions, physics, science of consciousness, history of the Albigensian Crusades, Jewish, Sufi and Buddhist mysticism, the Inquisition, the Holocaust etc. etc. Which does not mean that it can easily be understood by others.

No, the author of the Revelation of John did not use Jungian archetypes.

Jungian archetypes are, themselves, a diminished understanding or perspective of the Revelations.

Written down?

The best 'writing down' is in the dance videos, The Matrix, Matrix Revolutions, and 2001--A Space Odyssey

That is why I put those videos on my website

That is a "state of the art" explanation of those Revelations.

Any more details can only occur in the context of an oral Teaching, hints of which are found in the Gospel of Thomas, for example.

Michael Cecil