The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Don't pay much attention to his ramblings and appeals to authority fallacies...

(blah, blah, blah and blah--all of which is of no relevance whatsoever to a forum about conspiracies).

In any case, this is precisely the mentality and consciousness not only of Paul and those who murdered the original followers of Jesus as well as the Albigensians (and, importantly, destroyed their writings); but also of every religious 'authority' and media official that I have contacted over the past 34 years in an effort to inform people of the Truth of the "resurrection" as well as Prophecies involving the loss of at least millions of human lives during the coming "time of trouble".

The Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection" are the ultimate Authority because they trump every metaphysical nonsensical doctrine concocted by the theologians. And, of course, the Roman theologians especially do not want anything trumping their 'authority'.

But it gets worse.

Orders of magnitude worse.

This is also the consciousness and the mentality of those who believe the florid delusion that Jesus will return 'on a white horse out of the sky', and in the even more florid delusion of the 'Rapture'--a mentality and consciousness which is on the very brink of a total psychological collapse into psychosis in the first place.

And how are these people going to respond when they realize that there will be no 'Rapture'?

How will they respond when they have done everything they possibly can to incite a war with Iran in support of the Zionist state of the Israel--there is, emphatically, no such thing as any "Jewish" state; just like there are no "Jewish" rocks, no "Jewish" trees--under the assumption that they will be 'Raptured' before those horrors commence.....

And then they are not 'Raptured' at all?

The ultimate societal consequences of millions upon millions of 'Rapture-crazed' Christians all of a sudden realizing there is no escape from the "time of trouble" is no more comprehensible than the ultimate societal consequences of the oil/methane volcano which has been unleashed in the Gulf of Mexico.

And that, too, will all be a very direct consequence of the censorship and suppression of the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection".

Michael Cecil

reply to post by plube


Not sure if you just copied these out of Zeitgeist but if you did you should probably fact check them with actual research about these deities. I realize Christ shares some things in common with other Messianic or deified figures but I'm also very suspicious of everything they claimed in Zeitgeist.

Just to let you know they are not just copied out of zietergiest and i reserch deeply as i rearch summarian,egyptian and mayan civilization deeply and the histories of mankind i could quote many many many similarities to gods and jesus.....my point for the statement is to show the link about the fact of a manmade book and that of a god driven book....the old testament is a god driven book but the new testament is a man driven book to contol a socitey through the roman catholic church...that thinking is going to come crashing down soon and will we be driven to follow another made up false religion .... i sure hope not....and i hope that mankind is slowly gaining the knowledge and belief in ourselves that we dont need to rely upon false gods to further our existance and that we as human beings can learn whom and accept who we are and stop killing each other based on goverment and religious doctrine that are written and prescribed only to control us.

I think i better slow me typing down to match the speed of the thread input then edit edit edit....as me letters get minced....i will not go into history of these dieties but that is the shortened version and your right it was just to point out the similarites in the dieties....and i am quite used to rebukes and they are always appreciated as the more open points of view the better one can learn....now i do hope that you are researching them also....as i don not for one minute just take the word of something i read without reseaching it as deeply as possible...and i hope that what i write would provoke people to do the same....i am here to awaken people to what happens in this world and how we are all being manipulated by people in control of the mass media and if it can expose the truth about all religions and goverment agendas then i will have suceeded...

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


i too am wary of all things in Zeitgeist and of anything that is stated to slate off others points of view....so i tend to over research all things and i have spent my life researching human origins,,,and the possibility that we are not alone and that we have never been alone since our creation....and the true origins of our very creators....i have personal reasons for looking into it so deeply..... Abductee is the word....or i could just be crazy....probably the later...lol

Originally posted by plube
wow i love when people dont see the depth when words are written, lets go back to times that predate the bible then and see what some fo the sumarians would have thought of what i had stated and also many coincedences of things before the bible and where things in the writings were written Origins origins origins ........

HORUS

born on dec 25
born of a virgin
star in the east
adorned by three kings
teacher at 12
baptized/ministry at 30yrs
12 disciples
performed miracles
lamb of god / the light
crucified
dead for 3 days
ressureccted

Etc. etc. etc. repeated, more or less, in relation to:

ATTIS

KRISHNA

DIONYSUS

Mithra

All of this information is, of course, quite superficial; and does not in any way threaten the consciousness of the "self" or the 'thinker'.

Translation: it is primarily entertaining; distractingly entertaining.

Distracting from what?

From Doctrinal Truth.

That is, irrespective of all of these considerations, the fundamental question is whether there is a continuity of Revelation and Doctrine between the Torah, the Prophets, Daniel, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Gospels, the Nag Hammadi Codices and the Koran.

And that continuity of Revelation and Doctrine--which is specifically not entertaining--is the understanding of the Revelation of the "resurrection" as the basis for a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'; as well as the Knowledge Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man"; which is referred to in Genesis 3:24 as "...the cherubs, and the flame of a flashing sword, to guard the way to the Tree of Life"; and in the Koran as the "Night Journey" of Mohammed. (This is also the Vision that Hagar and Isaiah and Ezekiel and Elijah and the apostle Mary received; and is also described in Psalm 18:7-15)

But of particular importance is Jesus description of the Doctrinal implications of this Vision and its relationship to Genesis 3 in Saying #37 of the Gospel of Thomas:

"His disciples said 'When will you become Revealed to us and when shall we see you?'"

Commentary: Jesus was the "Son of man" and these apostles had not yet received the Vision of the "Son of man". And, in the Gospel of Mary, when Mary reports the Knowledge that she has received through the Vision of the "Son of man" she is ridiculed and challenged by the male disciples for teaching "strange teachings".

"Jesus said, 'When you disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments and place them under your feet like little children and tread on them, then [will you see] the Son of the Living One and you will not be afraid."

Commentary: Jesus is not counseling nakedness. He is explaining that the 'clothing' of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 refers to the thoughts of the 'thinker'. In other words, the Vision of the "Son of man" is experienced against the background of an absolute cessation of all thoughts of the 'thinker'. This is validated by the final statement of Jesus: "...you will not be afraid."

And, if you read the writings and dialogues of J. Krishnamurti, you will see that he has also observed that "thought is fear"; as can also be deduced from reading the Second Meditation of Descartes.

And this Revelational and Doctrinal continuity continues in the Revelation of John (13:11) and the Koran, where the 'thinker' is symbolized by the "beast of the earth".

So, irrespective of any considerations of the superficial aspects of any of these religions, there is a fundamental Revelational and Doctrinal continuity from Genesis 3 to Sura 27:82 of the Koran.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by NOTurTypical Don't dignify his ramblings. Don't cast your pearls before swine.

Well, obviously, I have said something to anger you if you are now at the business of accusing me of being "swine", so let me try something completely different:

It is probably fair to say that Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in Revelation; in other words, that it is possible for the Creator to Convey Revealed Truth in Words to the prophets.

But, as I understand it, it is also within the Power of the Creator to Convey Revealed Truth by 'writing' that Truth not in the consciousness of a prophet, but in the beauty of a woman's body, in the beauty of her movements in a dance, in the beauty of her clothes; and that it is also within the Power of the Creator to inspire choreographers (and cinematographers) no less than prophets.

This is the reason for the dance videos on my web site:

after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com...

Now, in the Revelation of John, there is a description of the Opening or the Unsealing of the Seven Seals, something which the Christian theologians have argued about for almost 2000 years. Probably hundreds or thousands of books have been written, dozens upon dozens of videos have been made; and these Christian religious 'authorities' have made quite successful careers out of interpreting the Revelations in that book. Probably tens or hundreds of millions of dollars have been hood-winked from gullible Christians by such interpretations.

So, let me suggest, for free, that a much better explanation of the Opening of the Seven Seals can be had by understanding the Revelations written into the dance movements in the videos on my website.

And, if you don't want to believe my commentary, fine.

Just enjoy the beauty of the dances and the music.

So maybe, by providing those videos, I can at least be entertaining if not instructive.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by Michael Cecil


speaking of the Body-how is it then, if I understood you correctly, that you deny Jesus was a man, who came in the flesh, and was raised from the dead?

But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman-Gal4.4

The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.-Acts5.30



[edit on by No King but Jesus]

reply to post by Michael Cecil


is it possible to misunderstand what "rapture" is implying?

Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.-Is66.7

the firstborn among many brothers.-Rom8.29

He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.-Rev19.13

Originally posted by plube
wow i love when people dont see the depth when words are written, lets go back to times that predate the bible then and see what some fo the sumarians would have thought of what i had stated and also many coincedences of things before the bible and where things in the writings were written Origins origins origins ........

HORUS

born on dec 25
born of a virgin
star in the east
adorned by three kings
teacher at 12
baptized/ministry at 30yrs
12 disciples
performed miracles
lamb of god / the light
crucified
dead for 3 days
ressureccted

ATTIS

born of a virgin
born on dec 25th
crucified
dead for 3 days
resurrected

KRISHNA

born of a virgin
star in the east
performed miracles
resurrected

DIONYSUS

born of a virgin
born on dec 25th
performed miracles
king of kings
the alpha omega
resurrected

Mithra

born of a virgin
born on dec 25th
12 disciples
performed miracles

all these gods exsisted hundreds of years before christ so ask yourself where the bible got it's concepts from...as we learn we shall grow

so learn and you too shall grow

a book commisioned by a king that was failing is that a book i would believe in and also to be be commissioned hundreds of years after the fact i would conclude more as hearsay would you not.

food for thought so think hard and eat.

Please show me historical evidence of the above lists of things you gave.

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

speaking of the Body-how is it then, if I understood you correctly, that you deny Jesus was a man, who came in the flesh, and was raised from the dead?
[edit on by No King but Jesus]

I gotta say that I have absolutely no idea where you come up with these things.

I am not in any way denying that Jesus was a man.

I am saying that he taught a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' and that his reply to the Sadducees includes a figurative description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

Neither, by the way, am I denying the physical Resurrection of Jesus from the grave. I am merely saying that such is not to be taken as any evidence that there is a doctrine of any physical raising of a dead body from the grave...

Just like Jesus' multiplication of the loaves and fishes should not be understood as evidence in favor of a doctrine of the multiplication of loaves and fishes.

In other words, Christians jump to the conclusion that, because Jesus was physically raised from the grave, they too will physically be raised from the dead.

It would make just as much sense for the Christians to assert that, just as Jesus multiplied loaves and fishes, or walked on water, or changed water into wine, that they too will be able to do such things.

This is not merely nonsensical; but a specific contradiction of the Teaching of Jesus.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by LeoVirgo


I cannot prove the evidence which is my point the evidence in the bible too cannot be proved but this is written and open to interpretation

HORUS

An examination of Horus life, according to the Egyptian book of the dead, tells us:
Horus was born of a virgin
His mother was a woman called Meri
His father was called Jo-Sep
His father was of royal descent
His birth was heralded by a star
His birth was witnessed by Shepherds
King Herut tried to have him killed
He was 30 when baptised
His baptiser went on to be beheaded
He was followed by 12 disciples
He walked on water and healed the sick
He gave a 'sermon on the mount'
He was crucified
...between 2 thieves
He was buried in a tomb
He was ressurected after 3 days
In the future, he was said to reign for 1000 years

Attis

Attis cult began around 1200 BCE in Dindymon

The Olympian gods, fearing Agdistis, cut off the male organ and cast it away. There grew up from it an almond-tree, and when its fruit was ripe, Nana who was a daughter of the river-god Sangarius picked an almond and laid it in her bosom. The almond disappeared, and she became pregnant.

Attis was resurrected, and took the form of a pine tree. This resurrection was celebrated on 25 March - the festival of Hilaria.

I will admit that attis is more assumed than directed fact and the doctrines of attis cross paths with that of mithra's deeply

Mithras

For this i will send you off to a site wite is in favour of jesus being a reincarnation of Mithra but when you check the information and the reference material you might find it of interest

Mithra

Krishna

Author Kersey Graves (1813-1883), a Quaker from Indiana, compared Yeshua's and Krishna's life. He found what he believed were 346 elements in common within Christiana and Hindu writings. 1 That appears to be overwhelming evidence that incidents in Jesus' life were copied from Krishna's. However, many of Graves' points of similarity are a real stretch.

He did report some amazing coincidences:

#6 & 45: Yeshua and Krishna were called both a God and the Son of God.
7: Both was sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man.
8 & 46: Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity.
13, 15, 16 & 23: His adoptive human father was a carpenter.
18: A spirit or ghost was their actual father.
21: Krishna and Jesus were of royal descent.
27 & 28: Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star.
30 to 34: Angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna's parents stayed in Mathura.
41 & 42: Both Yeshua and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted.
56: Both were identified as "the seed of the woman bruising the serpent's head."
58: Jesus was called "the lion of the tribe of Judah." Krishna was called "the lion of the tribe of Saki."
60: Both claimed: "I am the Resurrection."
64: Both referred to themselves having existed before their birth on earth.
66: Both were "without sin."
72: Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine.
76, 77, & 78: They were both considered omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
83, 84, & 85: Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured "all manner of diseases."
86 & 87: Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead.
101: Both selected disciples to spread his teachings.
109 to 112: Both were meek, and merciful. Both were criticized for associating with sinners.
115: Both encountered a Gentile woman at a well.

reply to post by plube


115: Both encountered a Gentile woman at a well.
121 to 127: Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies.
128 to 131: Both descended into Hell, and were resurrected. Many people witnessed their ascensions into heaven.

Dionysus

Several Gods that predate Christianity but possibly show very close simmilarities to Jesus can be found. Moses, Osiris-Dionysus, Asclepius, Apollo, Helios, Hora, Mithras are among them. Dionysos, who was worshiped long before Jesus, has many similar features to him: for example, he was worshipped on December 25th (Rustic Dionysia) (Christmas), the day of the winter solstice in ancient Greek times, and his mayor holiday was in March called City Dionysia (Easter). Some sources even claims that Dionysus died on the cross.

Dionysian religion and Christianity are significantly parallel; according to Martin Hengel, "Dionysus had been at home in Palestine for a long time", and Judaism was influenced by Dionysian traditions.

The modern scholar Barry Powell thinks that Christian notions of eating and drinking the "flesh" and "blood" of Jesus were influenced by the cult of Dionysus. In another parallel Powell adduces, Dionysus was distinct among Greek gods as a deity commonly felt within individual followers. Another example of possible influence on Christianity, Dionysus' followers, as well as another god, Pan, are said to have had the most influence on the modern view of Satan as animal-like and horned.

Wine was important to Dionysus, imagined as the creator, and Jesus's Marriage at Cana. In the 19th century, Bultmann and others compared both and concluded that the Dionysian theophany was transferred to Jesus; Heinz Noetzel's Christus und Dionysos disagrees, arguing Dionysus never actually did turn water into wine. Martin Hengel replied that opposing traditions would be anachronistic, and that since all Palestinians were familiar with the transformation of water to wine as a miracle, it was expected from the Messiah to perform it. The extreme positions of copying Dionysian traditions or only referring to the Old Testamony are both no longer taken, but that there was a Dionysian background especially, but not only when the Marriage of Cana was written.

Peter Wick argues that the use of wine symbolism in the Gospel of John, including the story of the Marriage at Cana at which Jesus turns water into wine, is intended to show Jesus as superior to Dionysus.

also check wikipedia wiki

Now i for one know that this is all open to interpretation just as is the biblical references i am not bashing the bible but i do question all things

My personal reasons are because i am an continuous abductee...and when things happen to me and i am shown things to come and they come to pass it all makes me very skeptical

Originally posted by plube
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

I cannot prove the evidence which is my point the evidence in the bible too cannot be proved but this is written and open to interpretation

There is more than one way of propagating the conspiracy of the censorship of the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

The principal way is by slaughtering anyone who has taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' and relentlessly censoring and suppressing that Truth.

The second way is by widely publicizing an alternative explanation--for which no proof has ever been brought forward--that the Doctrine taught by Isaiah, Daniel, Jesus and Mohammed was, instead, the doctrine of a physical raising of a dead body from the grave.

But the third way of propagating the conspiracy is by the discussion of any number of trivial and peripheral issues which are of value only as entertainment.

The issue here is not one of superficial truth, but of Doctrinal Truth.

Jesus taught the "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' in flagrant contradiction of the Satanic doctrines of Paul, the Pharisees and the Christian theologians.

That is the conspiracy.

And this is a forum for the discussion of conspiracies.

In other words, even if everything said by this writer is accurate, what is the purpose of such a discussion in the first place?

To distract from the Doctrinal Truth; which I assert is the fundamental conspiracy which is threatening the very survival of human civilization itself.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
he's a Gnostic, he's parroting ideas that have been thouroughly debunked for centuries. he refers to heretical books of the Bible that weren't even written by apostles. these "lost" books of the Bible have been proven to have been written in the 2nd century therefore are not the works of the apostles they claim to have been written by.

Paul lied about Jesus being God.

Paul lied about the "resurrection" being the doctrine of a physical raising of a dead body from the grave.

Paul lied about the metaphysical 'soul' and a metaphysical 'heaven' and 'hell'.

Paul lied about the doctrine of "vicarious atonement".

And anyone who follows the lies of Paul is also a liar; either wittingly or unwittingly.

I will not believe anything said by people who have lied so consistently about the Teaching of Jesus, and who would stand to lose their jobs, their wealth, their pension, their health insurance, their homes, etc. etc. were it to be made known that they are lying about the Teaching of Jesus.

Of course, they are going to say that the Gospel of Mary was not an authentic Gospel; of course they are going to say that the Apocalypse of Peter does not contain words of Truth.

This is what both the Jewish and the Christian official interpreters of the Dead Sea Scrolls did in the opposite direction by trying to pre-date the existence of the Thanksgiving Hymns to guard against the most obvious question: Were they written by Jesus?

Yes they were.

Which would spell the end of Christian theology were that to be widely known and understood.

An attempt was made to convince people that they were written at least decades before the birth of Jesus.

And, when the radio-carbon dating came out to between 25 B.C. and 65 A.D. the media dropped that result like the winner of last year's Super Bowl.

Which was who, by the way?

See?

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Paul lied about Jesus being God.

Peter, James, John, Luke and Matthiew said the same thing. Daniel said in Chapter 7 the "Son of Man" would have divine characteristics. David calls Him "Lord" in Psalms, Isaiah and Ezekiel claim the messiah will be God. You're a fool.

"Professing to be wise, they became fools,"

Paul lied about the "resurrection" being the doctrine of a physical raising of a dead body from the grave.

Peter, James, John, Luke, and Matthiew all saw the risen Lord Jesus as well. Stop reading heretical books from the 2nd century and trust the accounts of the EYEWITNESSES. LOLOLOLOLOL

Paul lied about the metaphysical 'soul' and a metaphysical 'heaven' and 'hell'.

You're a fool, Jesus taught more about Hell than any other person in scripture.

I will not believe anything said by people who have lied so consistently about the Teaching of Jesus, and who would stand to lose their jobs, their wealth, their pension, their health insurance, their homes, etc. etc. were it to be made known that they are lying about the Teaching of Jesus.

I'll trust the men who were willing to be imprisoned, beaten, stoned to death, boiled in oil etc (Paul, Peter, John, James) than ANY account written in the 2nd century about Jesus. (Gospel of Thomas, Apocalypse of Peter)

Of course, they are going to say that the Gospel of Mary was not an authentic Gospel; of course they are going to say that the Apocalypse of Peter does not contain words of Truth.

Scholars are virtually unanimous that the Gospel of Mary was written between 150 and 200 AD. And the Apocalypse of Peter is extremely docetic, which means Jesus only appeared to be a living breathing man. In other words, He didn't leave footprints, His feet didn't quite touch the ground. Scholars believe it to be from the 4th century.

I suggest you read the first chapter of "The Case For the Real Jesus" by Lee Strobel.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Paul lied about Jesus being God.

Peter, James, John, Luke and Matthiew said the same thing. Daniel said in Chapter 7 the "Son of Man" would have divine characteristics. David calls Him "Lord" in Psalms, Isaiah and Ezekiel claim the messiah will be God. You're a fool.

"Professing to be wise, they became fools,"

Paul lied about the "resurrection" being the doctrine of a physical raising of a dead body from the grave.

Peter, James, John, Luke, and Matthiew all saw the risen Lord Jesus as well. Stop reading heretical books from the 2nd century and trust the accounts of the EYEWITNESSES. LOLOLOLOLOL

Paul lied about the metaphysical 'soul' and a metaphysical 'heaven' and 'hell'.

You're a fool, Jesus taught more about Hell than any other person in scripture.

I will not believe anything said by people who have lied so consistently about the Teaching of Jesus, and who would stand to lose their jobs, their wealth, their pension, their health insurance, their homes, etc. etc. were it to be made known that they are lying about the Teaching of Jesus.

I'll trust the men who were willing to be imprisoned, beaten, stoned to death, boiled in oil etc (Paul, Peter, John, James) than ANY account written in the 2nd century about Jesus. (Gospel of Thomas, Apocalypse of Peter)

Of course, they are going to say that the Gospel of Mary was not an authentic Gospel; of course they are going to say that the Apocalypse of Peter does not contain words of Truth.

Scholars are virtually unanimous that the Gospel of Mary was written between 150 and 200 AD. And the Apocalypse of Peter is extremely docetic, which means Jesus only appeared to be a living breathing man. In other words, He didn't leave footprints, His feet didn't quite touch the ground. Scholars believe it to be from the 4th century.

I suggest you read the first chapter of "The Case For the Real Jesus" by Lee Strobel.

Won't argue with someone who doesn't have even the equivalent of a second grade edumication to be able to discuss these things intelligently.

Assuming that everything you say is accurate, which is something like saying that a pig just flew by my window, you still have one major problem that you can never escape:

The reply of Jesus to the Sadducees in the Gospel of Luke.

Let's just stick to that one argument, point by point.

If you go to the trouble of typing out that response, I will provide my commentary, God Willing.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by Michael Cecil


I and the Father are one.-John10.29

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders.-Rev5.6

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."-Heb1.6

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.-Is9.6

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.-Rev20.4

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

I and the Father are one.-John10.29

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders.-Rev5.6

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."-Heb1.6

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.-Is9.6

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.-Rev20.4

Gotta comment about your handle, first of all.

It is not merely a blood-thirsty blasphemy and lie.

It is also the rationale for the Holocaust.

You don't follow the Teaching of Jesus in the least.

What you follow is the Roman idolatry and metaphysical philosophy of Paul.

Jesus could not possibly have claimed any 'oneness' with the Creator of the universe.

Such a pagan metaphysical philosophical formulation is specifically excluded by the Revelation of the Memory of Creation (Genesis 2:7).

And you are especially not going to like this:

Those who have been slaughtered "because of the Word of God" are those "heretics", Jews and Muslims who were slaughtered because they would NOT worship Jesus as God; understanding that such an assertion is a Satanic contradiction of the Torah, the Prophets, Daniel, the Gospels, the Revelation of John and/or the Koran.

Michael Cecil


[edit on 16-7-2010 by Michael Cecil]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


The adults were judged as sinners and found guilty. You are also guilty of sin and will die some day. People and governments that murder innocents are/will be judged. What did those ancient groups do to earn this judgment? They sacrificed their living infants to idols. Just take your innocent baby and throw him into a hot brass idol with a fire pit or give him to a hungry alligator. Nice folks, why would God want to hurt them? When the Jews took up that form of "worship" God punished them also. I doubt you have a problem with retribution for such horrible murders. But this isn’t your point,

Surely the first born children of Egypt were not to be held accountable for the sins of the other Egyptians. Had the Bible said "God smote only those Egyptians who were wicked" it would be altogether different, but the Bible says God killed the first born (usually thought of as first born CHILDREN.)

Idol worship was pervasive among the inhabitants of the lands Israel was told to destroy. The children who died were either young and went to heaven, or they had arrived at an age where they knew right from wrong. Older children would have been bitter and angry and a big source of trouble for God and the Israelites. The children would have tried to escape or reestablish their culture and religion. Every time the Israelites mixed with other nations, they took up horrible forms of worship.

The most dominate trait about God is not Love, it’s Holiness. Heaven is a "No Sin Zone." Sin must be paid for before anyone can enter. In the OT, people trusted that Messiah would pay for sin. The sacrifices pointed to that. The Jews got to thinking those sacrifices were sufficient. There are no egregious differences between the OT and NT. The OT is for the Jews, who wanted to be under the law. They swore to God that they would keep His commandments - now that took EGO! They are still trying to keep the law to get God’s favor. It still isn’t working so well for them…

The NT is written to the Gentiles who didn’t know anything about God. They were happy to hear that Jesus paid for sin on the cross. The Jews were mad because they were so dedicated to a religion where they didn’t need any help. The idea of not being able to keep the law to get to heaven really enraged them. God can be love AFTER the sin debt is paid.

Do you think the old pagan religions are passé? We still worship the goddess of fertility with wild abandon. Only now we don’t sacrifice the baby to pagan gods. We just abort them quietly. God is NOT love if you are guilty of such heinous crimes. He will forgive in Christ, but ONLY it you ask.