China vs. The USA: An eye opener

China is almost there but if they are not carefal, they can sleep easily. They have to fix their staggering poverty problem and revise their mandate on human rights.

reply to post by Breifne


Ok, so I was off by a bit, but not by much, yet still a lot closer than your 5M estimate.

China Military Strength

Military Manpower: 667,657,509
Personnel Fit for Military Service: 550,265,789
Available Yearly Military Manpower: 25,848,582

Purchasing Power: $7,099,000,000,000
Gold Reserves: $1,534,000,000,000

Oil Production: 3,710,000 (barrels/day)
Oil Consumption: 7,000,000 (barrels/day)
Proven Oil Reserves: 16,300,000 (barrels)
Labor Force: 803,300,000
Ports: 8

Airports: 467
Railways: 75,438 km
Waterways: 124,000 km
Roadways: 1,870,661 km
Land Area: 9,596,960 km
Merchant Marines: 1775

Why the hoopla over the Chinese?

I heard recently they had the second largest economy way back in 1890, so obviously things haven't changed much in this department.

Meh... china is 20 years behind the US in economy and 50 years in military and 30 years behind in the space program.


Everything looks nice, but the ones below the 80th percentile are living like crap and under stress.

That's all ima say, and I'm Chinese =D.

[edit on 1/14/2009 by die_another_day]

I wonder if CHina as a superpower [future hegemon?] is capable of creating leading sectors [of industries], the US had its position maintained during the 90's[with the threat of Japan] through their new leading IT sectors[these were the youngsters]..I actually doubt if China has this knowledge/know how to innovate and create new leading sectors..I think when the US and EU are all into the solar energy era China is still building cole factories and they just might miss the boat..with all due respect to their thousand years of civilzation i think Chinese people really have no taste....i mean who's gonna buy a Chinese car in the near or far future?..I mean serious



[edit on 14-1-2009 by Foppezao]

reply to post by Foppezao


That’s a good question.
But by sheer numbers China is spitting out almost as many Engineering graduates as the EU and the US combined, not a good sign for things to come.

Field Marshal Bernard L. Montgomery (Viscount Alamein) in a speech in the House of Lords on 30 May 1962: "Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war is: 'Do not march on Moscow.' ... Rule 2 is: 'Do not go fighting with your land armies in China.'"

Good Advice above.

China can be a good friend and fabulous lover. I'm ready to take a nap, not fight a war. Everyone that's gone there for war is simply absorbed and never seen again.

Originally posted by huckfinn
Field Marshal Bernard L. Montgomery (Viscount Alamein) in a speech in the House of Lords on 30 May 1962: "Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war is: 'Do not march on Moscow.' ... Rule 2 is: 'Do not go fighting with your land armies in China.'"

Good Advice above.

China can be a good friend and fabulous lover. I'm ready to take a nap, not fight a war. Everyone that's gone there for war is simply absorbed and never seen again.

I believe it was that other general Mac Arthur who wanted to nuke North Korea and North east China during the Korean war..what if...
I dont think a nuclear holocaust would have happenend in that early stage of the cold war..
I do believe as the documentary showed that China is going to be an even more "influential" ally for rogue states then the USSR was, mostly because they dont ask questions about their government/human rights but just ally and trade...

reply to post by Foppezao


Wasn't MacArthur fired right after that? China is a compliment to America, not a competitor. I think the spin that China's rise is a threat to the US comes from certain European powers...Great Britian, possibly.

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by Breifne

 

Ok, so I was off by a bit, but not by much, yet still a lot closer than your 5M estimate.

China Military Strength

Military Manpower: 667,657,509
Personnel Fit for Military Service: 550,265,789
Available Yearly Military Manpower: 25,848,582

Purchasing Power: $7,099,000,000,000
Gold Reserves: $1,534,000,000,000

Oil Production: 3,710,000 (barrels/day)
Oil Consumption: 7,000,000 (barrels/day)
Proven Oil Reserves: 16,300,000 (barrels)
Labor Force: 803,300,000
Ports: 8

Airports: 467
Railways: 75,438 km
Waterways: 124,000 km
Roadways: 1,870,661 km
Land Area: 9,596,960 km
Merchant Marines: 1775

Why the hoopla over the Chinese?

I heard recently they had the second largest economy way back in 1890, so obviously things haven't changed much in this department.

The figures you give are not military readiness or necessities!

They are typical 'fighting figures' that come out which enables enemies to size up the potential for standing army size, but not realistic. Therefore, those between the age of 18 - 45 may be available to fight if called upon, but are not trained and not required to fight. Thus, it is a marker for army readiness.

Why the hoopla over the Chinese?

There is no hoopla over the Chinese on my part - I just like to defend those nations that appear to get the wrong end of the stick - China is one of those nations that appears to strike fear in those too ignorant to properly research them.

It will be 10 - 15 years before they become a true superpower. What you also appear to forget, is that the greater the size of the country, the greater the monetary requirements to maintain such a force and infrastructure. The numbers you cite would drain too much from the national budget in peace time to make any sense. Russia found that out during the Cold War and the war with Afghanistan.

I will cite a document from 2000 which highlights China's military doctrine, although, favorable economic conditions may have changed such a stance since then:

China's Military Capabilities

Ground Forces and Tanks

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) is moving toward an overall reduction and reorganization of personnel and equipment with the goal of creating a more modern and mobile army. In 2000, the total estimated personnel strength of the Chinese military is 2.5 million, of which 1.8 million are in service with the PLA (ground forces).

The ground forces are divided into 7 military regions with 27 military districts. Within the 7 military regions lie 21 Group Armies, each containing about 60,000 personnel. The Group Armies contain among them 44 infantry divisions, 13 infantry brigades, 10 armored divisions, 12 armored brigades, 5 artillery divisions, 20 artillery brigades, and 7 helicopter regiments. In addition, 5 infantry divisions, 2 infantry brigades, 1 armored brigade, 1 artillery division, 3 artillery brigades, and 3 anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) brigades are independent elements of the PLA not assigned to any specific Group Army. There are also three airborne divisions, which are manned by the PLAAF. 5

There are also numerous reserve and paramilitary units, some of which do not fall under the direct control of the PLA. The PLA reserve component has about 1.2 million personnel divided into 50 infantry, artillery, and air-defense divisions.

In addition, approximately 1.1 million personnel serve in the People's Armed Police, which includes internal security and border defense forces under the control of the Ministry of Defense. The People's Armed Police is organized into 45 divisions.

The reserve forces and the People's Armed Police are expected to increase in size in the near future as active units are shifted to reserve status under China's modernization and restructuring plan. 6

If China decide to militarise and start to threaten America's global dominance, then I say 'good on ya'. It may cancel out the dominance and bring polarity, such as another Cold War which we will all know by know as a fear exercise thus making the transference of military technology from one era to another obsolete!

Lets agree to disagree shall we?

Here is another view on the whole possible China threat or is it?

Henry Kissinger - China as a Rising Power

Ok Ok. So they have new hardware and far greater numbers in military. You have to ask yourself this though. Say that we are to go to war with China, what makes you think they will defeat us. To really defeat the United States they will have to invade and kill almost every American there is. I can say that with almost certainty. I for one, being in the military, am not worried about China or any other force on the planet at this point. However, in a few years, once Obama has his way and downsizes our military I will begin to think about it. We currently have the most technologically advanced weapons for battle. Their sheer numbers is all they have. At this point, I would not worry about anything, however in a few years yes I would because by that time our military will be downsized once again and we will be even more vulnerable then ever before because Obama is going to pull the wool over everyones eyes like he is already doing.

Originally posted by speed_demon
Ok Ok. So they have new hardware and far greater numbers in military. You have to ask yourself this though. Say that we are to go to war with China, what makes you think they will defeat us.

Have you viewed the post?


This is a thread about making everybody aware of what is going on in China and we should keep an eye on them.

China is now the world third largest economy and is exploding out of the gate, especially in the last 10 years. With the massive influx of manufacturing jobs the previously psudo-socialist state vanished in to a laughable farce. As the US seems to be entering a decline, it is entirely possible that they could take the position of Superpower from us. They are simply going to be making more goods then us. With the US military based around the concept of being able to spend more money then the others, if the US taxbase was to be reduce through intensifying poverty (and the rich will continue to legally cheat and steal) the military could collapse.

I saw another thread on a military war between Iran and Israel and what the outcome would be. I think that a US/China war would be similar. It would be fought over some bullcrap non real Gulf of Tonkin type incident. Probably it would be an air war over the the China Sea. No way are we every going to have troops storm Beijing. I think that we would 'win' but at a very high cost. We could probably cripple their military from the air and gain superiority, but I'd say we'd lose 25% of our air force. I think an example of how the war would be fought is the air war during the Falkland's War. Although China has a much better air force then Argentina, our attacks would be primary carrier based, as well as some longer range attacks from bases in South Korea and Japan. Japan and South Korea might become targets for missile attacks.

reply to post by squidbones


I like what Kissinger said that no country can maintain a 10% economic growth rate indefinitely didn’t we see the same thing with Japan in the 80s?

They were going to be the next threat back then didn’t happen.
I applaud Chinas growth and move to a market economy but I would caution them if they tried to move beyond their borders militarily the world is watching.

Originally posted by Johnmike

I like how you left out pictures of rural Western China.

Sorry about the delay I thought this video would be more suited since it goes into much more detail of the problems China is now facing it seems they to are also having issues with Islam also it goes into whether or not China has been slowly moving away from communism and socialism and moving more towards western style democracy.


Also watch this it starts off with them saying they will come to dominate the world!

Great videos Enjoy.

Sociology, Cultural Anthropology, Politics – “China” – (1/4)

Google Video Link

Sociology, Cultural Anthropology, Politics – “China” – (2/4)

Google Video Link

Sociology, Cultural Anthropology, Politics – “China” – (3/4)

Google Video Link

Sociology, Cultural Anthropology, Politics – “China” – (4/4)

Google Video Link

[edit on 28-1-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Breifne


As for the final statement, I am not even going to entertain that - that's just nonsense!!

Here it is:

source

thanks for the link now that is a pretty scary eye opener!

well, as a chinese, i think it is safe to say that US is far more advanced currently.

i will state some truth of china ( it might be a mess write because i write when im thinking about it. ).

1.
china's 1st line cities, where the skycrapper site lists, are no worse living than any american cities, some even have a better living.

but there is nowhere in rural area can compare with US. And there is a trend that the cities get richer and richer, but the farmer get poorer and poorer. the gov has already noticed this situation several years ago, thats why President Hu said we sould try out best to build a harmony society.
however, i see few effects of that harmony society.

2.
few chinese has problem with human rights and oppression because i feel no difference between living in western countries and china. thats why most chinese always feel confuse/kind of weak evidence when westerns condem china's human rights.

3.
china's environment is getting worse and worse. some officers are so short sighted. they only do things that can get ppl richer now, but not high quality of life or their son's life.

4.
ordinary chinese think US is full of golds on the ground, all you need is just to bend down and pick it up until recently (few years ago). i think partially it showed why so many chinese immigrated to US. but are most of them really happy in western?

5.
you merely see chinese claim they are smart as indian do because we think working hard as ants is the most important element of ppl's character.

6.
chinese treat US as competitor and partner, not friend and enemy.

7.
china's most recent invention to the world is hybrid rice. it is the secret how china feed her 1.3 billion ppl.

another invention is synthetic crystalline bovine insulin in 1965.

each should be award a noble prize. but china refuse to take the prize since Noble prize can only gives 1 special person, while china claims those are people/group's effort.

8.
educated chinese do think westerns are brainwashed by their propaganda. actually, few years ago chinese is also brainwashed to believe all bbc, cnn news. however, since more and more chinese go aborde, they find the western media is not that clean. After tibet issue, you can see red flag in every major city of US, Canada, EU. you should seriously ask yourself a question: why most of the chinese studying/living in western are still pro-china.

brainwash different: chinese who are interested in politics/economy knew they are reading brainwashed story which provided by their gov because of culture revolution, and great fire wall, so most of them will read multiple source of story (by proxy to access blocked) . while i dont think most westerns do espeically when it comes to china.

9.
few ppl in china talk about politics.

10.
those who are talking politics rarely talk about communism, capitalism, socielism or democracy. they talk about how to catch the mice. (Deng Xiaoping:"no matter it is a black cat or a white cat, if it catches mice, it is a good cat.")

11.
recently years, as china develops, more ppl demanding democracy and human rights etc.. i think there will be war between citizen and gov if the gov refuse to release some power to the public. however, thats the thing maybe happen at 2035-2045.

the gov is reforming the politic system, but im pessimistic on it right now.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS



Thank you for your reply.

I agree all is not roses in China.
I hope that they can settle the issues of such huge gaps between western and eastern China and the giant gaps in wealth it seems that if China wants to hold on to the communists way of life they may have to change their practices but this does not seem possible as they have seem to have gotten the wealth ich.

This will only get worse in my opinion simply because the whole world has seemed to have adopted Free markets and consumerism.

Originally posted by huckfinn
Field Marshal Bernard L. Montgomery (Viscount Alamein) in a speech in the House of Lords on 30 May 1962: "Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war is: 'Do not march on Moscow.' ... Rule 2 is: 'Do not go fighting with your land armies in China.'"

Good Advice above.

China can be a good friend and fabulous lover. I'm ready to take a nap, not fight a war. Everyone that's gone there for war is simply absorbed and never seen again.

Yup. The US has learnt it the hard way before. Guerilla warfare. This lesson is also repeated in Iraq

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Thank you for your honest assessment from a Chinese perspective. You have brought up many interesting things to ponder.