Springer, any word on the Stone documents?

reply to post by muzzleflash





I doubt that....

It's a massive conspiracy to start the thread (sgt cliff stone answers your questions) and say relatively nothing, offer no proof and try and "fob off" anyone who spoke out against cliff or the site for the way they handled it.

I had quite a torrid time on that thread and have to say that it made me more determined to uncover the truth... unfortunately this also led me to the realization that they have nothing.
Cliff vehemently stood by his story through all the grief he was getting and i have to say, through conversations via u2u with JOE Z and a few chats with Cliff, that i actually became quite fond of the pair of them and felt a little guilty at the way i spoke to Mr. Stone on occasions, and i duly apologized for this.

However, Thinking they are decent guys and knowing that the story and all the hype surrounding it is nothing but empty promises and false claims doesn't really help anybody.

I really do hope that something comes of this and I've wanted nothing but the truth since i first read the damn thread..... i really hope that we are not all let down.

If any of Stone's outrageous claims were true he would have been silenced years ago. What he said in the disclosure project was probably the most sensational thing said that day (57 species?) and is probably what brought the thing crashing down (Not that Greer needed help to do that). I want to believe him, but again he has shown no credible evidence.

reply to post by The Savage Khan


It does seem that the Disclosure Project would have had much more credibility if Mr Stone didn't mention his claims. I do believe most of the disclosure project participants are 100% genuine regardless of Mr Stone's story's.

For those of us that are pushed for time. Can someone please sum up in a short paragraph what these stone documents are about? I have never heard of them before?

I think we all need to remember that ATS is a business, the conspiracy site is therefor the income, and from a business perspective more hits = more money.

There are loads people that buy into the likes of Project Camelot and their companions, Disclosure 'Project', and all that kinda stuff, and this ultimately generates revenue for the site....the kooky stuff on the UFO board gets the most hits! Some people are quite willing to throw any sort of reason right out of the windows for a bit of escapism, even if they aren't aware of it.

Do I believe in ET life? Sure I do.. Do I believe in Flying Saucers/Alien Craft visiting us? Yup. Do I believe these guys, no way! Have any of you guys listened to the ATS Mix?? Ever noticed the intro to the show? You clearly hear someone, and I'm pretty sure its one of the three amigos, saying "Beware of people trying to sell you conspiracy theories.." With that out the way, now check out the ad banner on ATS for the new Jim Marrs book.

ATS is a business, and the Cliff documents that are kept in the vault (not the ones uploaded on the site) will probably be released when it suits them, not us. Unfortunate really, I checked the very thread it was all announced on every day to check for updates, and it all went up in a puff of smoke. The thread got locked because a few people (me included) started to get frustrated.

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Smugallo]

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Smugallo]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Valhall

 

Wrong ones Valhall. The ones we want were given to Springer and ATS and have never been released anywhere else. We were told they would be released when ATS felt it was in the right manner and time. At this rate Stone will be deceased before they are released. Since the thread was closed before they were released there is no way to even ask about them and it has been a long time. Long enough to make one wonder if it is hoped we would forget.

[edit on 1/6/2009 by Blaine91555]

Okay, my bad. I haven't kept up with this one at all, and contrary to popular belief - I haven't got a clue what Springer and others have done, are doing, or are going to do. Sorry for confusing the issue by talking about something I have now realized I know nothing about!

reply to post by franspeakfree


It all stems from the ats at roswell thread, which then led to this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com... in which nothing of substance was posted.

ATS has the "documents" but will not post them, for reasons we were never told.... many people got annoyed and questioned the motives.... cliff disappeared from the thread.... and for months nothing has been said about it.

These docs are supposed to show unequivocally, that the government and other agencies have been covering up/lying about knowledge of ET's/UFO's et al. for decades.... however, these docs have never surfaced and cliff was not allowed to go into detail about anything... or so we were told.


I'm not sure we will ever know?

reply to post by AlexZ_UK


Indeed which I suspect is why some of them returned to the NPC (sans Stone) to be part of the "Out of the Blue" project. Great documentary, though I can't help but think James Fox was just cashing in on the "Disclosure Project" model.

I knew he was a crackpot when I read just a few of his claims. How anyone could be taken in by his claims is beyond me.

Still no response from Springer? Must be busy with something else.

Vallhall,
No worries, I'm sure the documents will surface eventually. Stone still has them but promised he would let ATS decide when to release them.

For the curious -

Mr. Clifford Stone has submitted huge numbers of Freedom of Information requests searching for anything related to UFO's and cover ups regarding them. Springer and "Team ATS" visited him at his home and went through his documents. They apparently found some that are good evidence of a cover up. If I understand, they don't actually give any info about UFO but show that something is being hidden some how. We don't really know as only Team ATS has seen them and Stone will not break his word to them.

It has been a very long time now and no mention of these documents has been forthcoming. At some point the thread about it was closed so we are in limbo without a clue as to whether they will ever be released. It is like looking at a wrapped gift in the corner for years and being told that some day I will let you open it but not now.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Still no response from Springer? Must be busy with something else.

I suspect a "Gag" order. It's pretty hard to explain or answer back when by court order you are not to discuss anything about it-whatever 'it' is. Suspect--I have no idea.

To those who are so quick to call "crackpot"; it is easy call foul on something you will never yourself see. The man is putting his life on the line--to get an information to you. His time. His blood. His concience.

As the voices arise in opposition, people are dying.

The world and this board crys for disclosure-and proof of facts and underlying concepts of what 'they want to believe', but fight tooth and nail against those same informations and concepts underlying of.

Seemingly, counter productive, if the idea is finding out what is going on.

The man seved his country. There comes a time when reality indicates that that country is also you.
Keep shutting up the experts and you become the military state, the very NWO itself. Also in conflict.

Just my opinion. Let the man speak. Not throwing stones does not indicate that you agree with him. Others may need to know what he has to say.

And yet, people scream "Why?!?" when tragedy strikes--without realizing that they have been squashing the clues and steering away the prevention all along.

I see Oliver Stone bashing along those lines. People can be skeptical without being mean and underhanded. When those people are hit by the tragedy--who is to grieve for them?

Regards. I am proud of each soul who stands up against stone throwing. No pun intended. There is no worse feeling than being beaten up by the people you are trying to help. Shooting the messenger for the message he carries. It's up there with the police shooting the victim to avoid the report. A pat on the back for the criminal. The complete anti-thesis of enforcement of the law. Then again, if Mr. Stone took an oath while in military employment, he maybe is doing something wrong?

I dunno. But since he has been here, I'd like to see he is not run off. What is the point of conspiracy if you can't get to the answers?

[edit on 7-1-2009 by HugmyRek]

I used to think Stone was a crackpot, but if you can believe one ET race has visited, why not 2 or 5 or 57? Certainly if even a tenth of UFO reports are to be believed there is a vast range of models in the sky.

I didn't actually want to stir up a hornets nest, it's just been so long since a new document was posted to the archives I was hoping for a teaser to start the new year. I certainly I hope I don't have to bring this up again next January!

Maybe Obama will beat them to the disclosure punch anyhow? (chuckle chuckle).

Originally posted by Shere Khaan
I used to think Stone was a crackpot, but if you can believe one ET race has visited, why not 2 or 5 or 57? Certainly if even a tenth of UFO reports are to be believed there is a vast range of models in the sky.

I don't think people are arguing 57 species of aliens couldn't exist or even be visiting Earth. What people are arguing is that Clifford Stone doesn't have any evidence to suggest this is true.

Clifford Stone might not have the evidence. He might have indicated a guidemap on where to look for people who pick up the area of interest. That was nice of him. People want the evidence. I hope they never have to find out the hard way. Rather, maybe if said evidence surfaces more won't have to, and everything will be a happy little uncomplicated world.

I hope his feelings are not too badly bruised. I didn't mean to stir the pot, if I did-or direct anything at anyone in particular if I did. Not in a bad way.
Did I? If so, I appologize. I am as dumb as a rock sometimes.

It's important to me when our elders come forward to speak. Because then they pass on and we lose their knowledge. I don't have to believe it. In Stone's case, I do to the extent that I do.

[edit on 7-1-2009 by HugmyRek]

[edit on 7-1-2009 by HugmyRek]

reply to post by Blaine91555

Glad this was bought up again...

You'd never believe how busy a person can get running a business with only two partners helping and having a knee replaced...


Anyway, after a total and complete brush off by the MSM we have decided to present this in one of our own future productions. I am going to give Clifford the go ahead to discuss at will as well.

I'll say it again for the record, these documents are NOT proof that the Government has been interacting with aliens. These documents are absolute proof that the government has most assuredly remained interested in the phenom, in direct conflict of what they've claimed for 3 decades, and that they absolutely have been covering that up to the point of out right lying to two Senators.

For more of the details go through the rest of the old thread, I don't have the time to rehash all of this again here. I'll be honest, I am beyond disappointed that the MSM could sit through our presentations and still take a pass on this. It's most likely because it requires one to be able to think logically and connect the rather obvious dots versus a document that states the government has been interacting with aliens and AF-1 is really a Sports Model.

Whatever... We will go forward as time and resources permit and we'll get it out there, I doubt it will have much impact based on how the MSM reacted. I mean, they are representative of the masses right?

In any case, you can choose to be mad at us if you want but I would offer that we spent thousands of dollars, months of time and did our dead level best to bring this out, what more can you ask for?

Is it possible this is just a "big deal" to us and not to anyone else? I guess so, but you'll have to decide for yourselves after we get it put together.

Simply dumping the documents online isn't going to do any good, as I've said a hundred times, the documents separately are meaningless and it's impossible to prove their authenticity online. We need to put together a video presentation of these where we can show the original envelopes, documents and lay out the whole series of events and ho we come to the conclusion we come to. That's going to take time and money. We'll do it but it's not going to happen fast.

I can think about posting it but it would take forever to put together and there would still be the obvious inability to prove the docs are genuine on line. I don't have time for that now but may be able to enlist the help of couple friends. We'll see...

Everyone who wants to slam us or accuse us of doing this to get more traffic really needs to get a clue. The only way traffic could ever come close to recouping the money we spent flying copies of these documents to NYC and other place plus the money we spent getting the documents is if the FOIA forum all of a sudden became three times busier than ALL of AboveTopSecret.com for at least 3 weeks in a row.

We did this because we truly believe that these documents are extremely important in proving the government has not been anywhere near honest with us about this phenom and we hoped to bring their feet to the fire and make them either fess up or explain why.

That didn't happen and it's beyond our control for now as we don't control the MSM...

Springer...

Thank you for the reply Springer!

It is truly sad the MSM did not want to take it up. I never had any illusions about what the documents would hold, so it is definitely for the best to put it in a relatively easy to follow format or the message will get lost in the words.

I look forward to them whatever format they come in.

[edit on 7/1/09 by Shere Khaan]

Thanks for the reply Mark.

This should clear up any frustrations I hope and also what happened to Stoney?, he has froze up on his postings latley.

Originally posted by TH3ON3
I knew he was a crackpot when I read just a few of his claims. How anyone could be taken in by his claims is beyond me.

Crackpot might be too harsh of a word. He believes in some really outlandish theories which have no basis in scientific fact at least for me.

I guess everyone in the asylum can point the finger and call each other crackpots too.

Edit:

I read Springer's post.
None more needed saying.
Thanks Springer, Great idea either way it's carried out.

J

[edit on 7-1-2009 by jephers0n]

reply to post by Springer


Thanks Springer. I had the general idea of what they are. I'm not surprised they did not ring any bells with the MSM. They are looking for smoking guns while we get excited over little clues or documents that hint we are on the right path.

The fact the government is still interested is as interesting to me as you found it to be. It leads to the thought of why would they still be interested if their is nothing to it in the first place.

I did not know about the knee. Hope all is well. Had mine done many years ago and have had zero problems since. I hope you have the same experience.

Thanks again.