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Originally posted by Griff
What's to say the DHS won't become as corrupt and have pissing matches with the other 3-letter agencies?
Sorry, not going to play juvenile games with you, you'll have to find some other fool to do that if that's what winds your clock.
Someone posting on this board has nothing in common with the other eyewitnesses who saw a plane collide with the Pentagon.
I'm just stunned that anyone can with a straight face, say that every single person who claimed to have seen a jet, or saw it fly into the side of the Pentagon, is lying or delusional.
Also consider this: Of those who saw the event unfold, NONE came forward and said "I was watching the building, and I saw it explode, but I didn't see a jet at all when it happened." Wouldn't dozens have seen the actual unfolding of events? Why would NONE report the truth?
Killtown? The anti-semite who harassed Val McClatchey, posting her contact information on blogs. Calling her at her place of employment.
Operation NorthWoods DECLASSIFIED
Operation Northwoods
OPERATION NORTHWOODS FALSE FLAG TERRORISM 911 DECLASSIFIED INSIDE JOB HISTORY economic collapse state of emergency dictator assassinate cuba baby boom 60s martial law bailout NAU EU NAFTA CAFTA tax taxes inflation bust suspended campaign oil blood money
MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE
Subject: Justification for U.S. Military Intervention
in Cuba (TS)
1. The Joint Chiefs of Staff have considered the attached
Memorandum for the Chief of Operations, Cuba Project, which
responds to a request of that office for brief but precise
description of pretexts which would provide justification
for US military intervention in Cuba.
They would ask, 'What are you doing in an Islamic country?" The BBC reporter John Simpson had a close call with bin Ladin himself outside Jalalabad in 1989. Travelling with a group of Arab mujahideen, Simpson and his television crew bumped into an Arab man beautifully dressed in spotless white robes; the man began shouting at Simpson's escorts to kill the infidels, then offered a truck driver the not unreasonable sum of five hundred dollars to do the job. Simpson's Afghan escort turned down the request, and bin Ladin was to be found later on a camp bed, weeping in frustration. Only when bin Ladin became a public figure, almost a decade later, did Simpson realise who the mysterious Arab was who had wanted him dead.
...the handful of Americans who had heard of bin Ladin in the 1980's knew him mainly for his violently anti-American views. Dana Rohrabacher, now a Republican congressman from Orange County, California, told me about a trip he took with the mujihideen in 1987. At the time, Rohrabacher was a Reagan aide who delighted in taking long overland trips inside Afghanistan with anti-Communist forces. On one such trek, his guide told him not to speak English for the next few hours because they were passing by bin Ladin's encampment. Rohrabacher was told, "If he hears an American, he will kill you."
Its was that the failures of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency and Federal Bureau of Investigation permitted the terrorist attacks to occur and that had these agencies acted more wisely and more aggressively, the attacks could potentially have been prevented.
Back to the post, there are NO other buildings that were created in the same magnitude as the WTC. None. It is a unique design that WAS NOT created to withstand multiple hits from an aircraft.
Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Considering no modern steel structure has ever totally collapsed due to fire, I would say it's statistically impossible for 2 skyscrapers, being struck at different heights and angles by 2 airliners, to collapse in an hour or so due to fire in the exact same manner and at nearly the maximum velocity a free fall would grant.
I have always wondered why people always mentioned "no modern steel structure had ever totally collapsed due to fire" argument.
No other modern steel structure had ever been hit by a fueled, high speed airliner EITHER.
It wasn't just the damage and it wasnt just the fire, it was BOTH. How hard is that to understand???
As for the "software comment" you just do not get it.
But keep adding details that make it more complicated of a scenario.
Does not change the fact that your idea is too technically complicated to be sure of success.
Originally posted by esdad71
Back to the post, there are NO other buildings that were created in the same magnitude as the WTC. None. It is a unique design that WAS NOT created to withstand multiple hits from an aircraft. It was designed to hopefully stand long enough for evacuation in the case of a low speed hit by an aircraft if lost in fog. Those are the exact words of the designers. Look it up.
Frank A. DeMartini, Manager, WTC Construction and Project Management, explains how the Twin Towers were "designed" to withstand the impact of a "fully-loaded Boeing 707." He also goes on to say that each of the Twin Towers would "probably sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door: this intense grid; and, the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing this screen netting; it really does nothing to the screen netting."
Second, I am not using the 9/11 commission as a bible but it is something
but it is something that anyone who has an opinion about 9/11 should read
Third, there will be corruption in any agency and that is not what this is about.
It is about communication between these agencies so that if the CIA is watching someone in Berlin and they are tied to a cell that may be operating in Arizona, with effective communication they can be broken with FBI assitance. This is how the real world works.
It is a unique design that WAS NOT created to withstand multiple hits from an aircraft.
Statements by Engineers
Engineers who participated in the design of the World Trade Center have stated, since the attack, that the Towers were designed to withstand jetliner collisions. For example, Leslie Robertson, who is featured on many documentaries about the attack, said he "designed it for a (Boeing) 707 to hit it." 2 Statements and documents predating the attack indicate that engineers considered the effects of not only of jetliner impacts, but also of ensuing fires.
John Skilling
John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or McDonald Douglas DC-8.
Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there. 3
A white paper released on February 3, 1964 states that the Towers could have withstood impacts of jetliners travelling 600 mph -- a speed greater than the impact speed of either jetliner used on 9/11/01.
Government-Funded Investigators Accused Of WTC Cover-Up
The American Society of Civil Engineers - an organization that was funded by FEMA to investigate the collapse of the twin towers on 9/11 - has been accused of engaging in a cover-up to protect the government, with critics charging the organization falsified conclusions that skyscrapers could not withstand getting hit by airplanes.
It was designed to hopefully stand long enough for evacuation in the case of a low speed hit by an aircraft if lost in fog. Those are the exact words of the designers. Look it up.
Also according to Robertson, the WTC towers were “in fact the first structures outside the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airplane.”[24]
Not only were the towers designed to survive plane crashes, they were designed to potentially survive multiple plane crashes. This fact is supported by Frank A. Demartini, the on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, who said on January 25, 2001:
“The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door—this intense grid—and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.”[25]
As far as the commission report, it was a bipartisan investigation on the why and how we could prevent further attacks. It came to the conclusion that
Mr Kean was actually upset with the information that was provided by the FAA and the FBI so it was not written to give everyone a pass.
No holograms, no explosives and no conspiracy. Trust me, I am not happy with the fact that the government was not on top of this but it was also a matter of our countries resources not bieng used properly with the previous administration who had multiple times to pull the trigger and kill OBL.
Eyewitness Accounts
Eyewitnesses Recalled Explosions, No Alarms or Sprinklers
The collapses of the Twin Towers were witnessed firsthand by scores of people, most of them emergency responders. The majority of those accounts have been suppressed by the state for years. In August of 2005, the New York Times published the single largest and most authoritative body of eyewitness evidence yet assembled, as a result of winning a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. 1 Another body of evidence, which we have yet to examine, is a set of recordings of calls processed by the 911 system on the day of 9/11/01 and released in 2006
I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there were bombs set in the building.
The chief of safety of the fire department of New York City told me he recieved word of the possibility of a secondary device: that is another bomb going off. He tried to get his men out as quickly as he could, but he said that there was another explosion which took place and according to his theory he thinks that there were actually devices that were planted within the building.
Look into Operation Bojinka, which was conceived in the mid 90's. There are the flight schools they attended in Florida. There are the DL's for the state of Florida as well as rental and bank records. These terrorists were real.
You can keep your head in the sand if you believe that.
PS - To Cashlink ,the guy with the Poodle and Deniro picture in his avatar, please do not call me delusional since I have a view different from you.
Is it so hard for you to step back and look at three sides of this story....Yours, mine and the truth?
Originally posted by MrPenny
"Corrupt" is a judgment call; at least in this case. Incapable, unable, etc.....may be more accurate. The level of bungling that is achieved by large bureaucracies is scary at times.
Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Raytracer
Ah yes, at some point I knew that someone would mention the B-25 smacking into the Empire State Building. Bringing up that event, only shows that you really do not know what you are talking about. The only comparisions between the two are "skyscraper" and "airplane" Other than that, there is nothing else comparable. The construction of the buildings is completely different, the ESB is more solidly constructed building than the Towers were. And comparing the bee sting of a B-25 at landing speed to the smack of a much larger, much faster airliner would be laughable in any other circumstances.