Whats going on at yellowstone?

reply to post by Trip3


Robin comes back to the thread (thank goodness!) and I can't help but notice you do too...
Can't you just leave well enough alone and focus on the topic at hand, if you don't like what Robin has to say ignore him like he has to ignore you.

reply to post by ashleys27


Unlike "some", I'm not compelled to make poorly-veiled personal slurs, but rather I'm specifically addressing "a communication" and the substance thereof. That would tend to make my own response relevant to the discussion, .. unless you'd care to assert that communication itself was not relevant to the "topic at hand"?

My response today was specifically to address an assertion made about the level of disclosure we can expect from the government, and government agencies, of which USGS is among.

Incidentally you reference "him"; I thought it was already established that the appropriate gender was "her", not that it matters.

reply to post by Trip3

A partner of mine has done extensive research of the microseism claim, and has had a difficult time correlating the appearance of the claimed microseism signatures, with any sort of storm event in the north Atlantic all the way up to Greenland. These signatures have occurred even at times when the area has been dominated by a high pressure system.

Obviously your partner failed to read the document you provided, That talked about deep swells, not storms. Is he not aware of the difference? Perhaps you should have pointed that out. You can have a deep swell without an actual storm as they travel vast distances.

Actually if we are talking about the Atlantic I cannot think of any time this past winter when there has not been a storm, however most have been deflected towards Greenland and did not reach us. Curious isn't it, as I have observed before, that the paper you provide spoke about these swells being in the region of Greenland. Do you think there might be a connection? I do.

Hey everyone look, there's a Yellowstone Photo Contest.

I know there have been some people on here who have shared their pictures. Maybe you should send them here.

latimesblogs.latimes.com...

reply to post by PuterMan


Actually he did read that and other papers, and did consider the possibility, and went on to reference other similar narrow-band seismometers, not only in the park but around the country.

While it can be quite easy to dismiss non-localized seismic signatures, with the supposition of non-specific and widespread phenomena, there are times when this becomes an insufficient explanation, even when given the most broad allowances.

reply to post by Robin Marks


You might want to add this response I got from my contact at the University Of Utah.

David,

To my knowledge no one is doing any tomography work in Yellowstone.
The spikes you see on these and other Yellowstone plots are noise spikes related to a telemetry issue.
You will see these spikes on everything coming from Yellowstone, until we get the problem fixed.
One way to recognize noise spikes is that they have no decay, they simply spike and are gone.
I am not aware of anyone from the USGS and certainly no one from UUSS has gone to
Yellowstone in the last few months. It is very difficult to do any work in Yellowstone in the winter.
I have not heard any talk of harmonic tremors or magma chambers from anyone at UUSS.
Other than the noise spikes in the main telemetry line Yellowstone seismicty has been
relativity low for quite some time.

-P

So that is the end of that subject as far as I am concerned, not being a subscriber to the cover-up conspiracy.

reply to post by PuterMan


Ya it's pretty rough in Yellowstone during the winter to say the least. Even the bison left the park because the conditions were so brutal and now they're on death row.

www.fieldandstream.com...

And here's something which should upset all of you. Well, forget the minor annoyances, this is the stuff that really sends me over the edge.

news.change.org...

They're going after the gas and oil on the borders of the park. Lunacy.

By the way, there has been some discussion of the 'scale' on the IRIS webicorder plots. I had some information back from my contact at the IRIS DMC. I have asked for a bit of further clarification. Note this does NOT apply to the plots from IsThisThingOn / UUSS as far as I am aware.

David:

The webicorder plots use a "heuristic" RMS algorithm to calculate the vertical scaling.

As the data for a given day changes, the RMS value for the day will change and hence the vertical scale will change.

Hope that answers your question.

Just curious, what are you using the plots for? Do you need more information?

Cheers,
B

You can see a perfect example of where this has had a major effect today on WHAR.AG. The big 4.7 mashed the trace and has meant that all display following that has been considerably reduced in sensitivity.

WHAR.AG.00.HHZ.2011.059

Prior to this the lines were not flat but showed the microseisms.

Incidentally I suggested that it would be useful to be able to pass a non-current plot (i.e. one not in the on-line archive) through a routine to create a webicorder plot. The head of development responded to me today:

Your suggestion is a good idea and our developers and management will have to consider where it fits into the grand pipeline of work we have before us.

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Robin Marks

 

You might want to add this response I got from my contact at the University Of Utah.

David,

To my knowledge no one is doing any tomography work in Yellowstone.
The spikes you see on these and other Yellowstone plots are noise spikes related to a telemetry issue.
You will see these spikes on everything coming from Yellowstone, until we get the problem fixed.
One way to recognize noise spikes is that they have no decay, they simply spike and are gone.
I am not aware of anyone from the USGS and certainly no one from UUSS has gone to
Yellowstone in the last few months. It is very difficult to do any work in Yellowstone in the winter.
I have not heard any talk of harmonic tremors or magma chambers from anyone at UUSS.
Other than the noise spikes in the main telemetry line Yellowstone seismicty has been
relativity low for quite some time.

-P

So that is the end of that subject as far as I am concerned, not being a subscriber to the cover-up conspiracy.

"One way to recognize noise spikes is that they have no decay, they simply spike and are gone."...
... which is true, however this would tend to be undermined by the fact those spikes, on t'other side of the park, at that same time, do indeed have s-wave components, which could reasonably be expected to have significant attenuation.


" It is very difficult to do any work in Yellowstone in the winter"
Ya think? That might tend to explain the need for several small track rigs, each with 4 flights of 3-inch pipe, seen leaving the park, which would coincidentally be just the size diameter necessary to set seismic charges.

"I am not aware of anyone from the USGS and certainly no one from UUSS has gone to Yellowstone in the last few months"

There's a choice phrasing, "not aware" and "from the USGS". and not from "UUSS"? One would think an absolute statement might be made, without any caveats or delimiters, such as "no seismic refraction survey, nor another field survey, has been done in 2011". Well, I do know of some specific persons from UofUtah, who have been there and done a survey and held a closed-door meeting from Yellowstone, at only the completion of the initial phase of that field work.

I'm not inclined to suppose any sort of "conspiracy".

However when concrete information validated from several diverse sources, regarding events which were witnessed to occur in real-time with respect to field instrumentation, and when the disclosure of information is done by established, publicly documented bureaucratic process, I would not reference this as any sort of "conspiracy", much less my own "subscription" thereto.

Here's a good website for information about Yellowstone. It's the Yellowstone Insider.

www.yellowstoneinsider.com...

its a bit "windy"at YMP now....

www.isthisthingon.org...

Originally posted by PuterMan
By the way, there has been some discussion of the 'scale' on the IRIS webicorder plots. I had some information back from my contact at the IRIS DMC. I have asked for a bit of further clarification. Note this does NOT apply to the plots from IsThisThingOn / UUSS as far as I am aware.

Yeah, I'd have to agree, cause that basically means the IRIS webicorders are dynamic, much like the real time viewer operates in GEE. And I don't remember any webicorder plots from UoU changing mv vd's just because there was a small to medium earthquake on the plot. To my knowledge the mv vd display changed with the sensitivity setting of the webicorder plotter, which I thought was changed from time to time manually- depending on their needs at the time. But I could be wrong.

Originally posted by PuterMan

David,

The spikes you see on these and other Yellowstone plots are noise spikes related to a telemetry issue.
You will see these spikes on everything coming from Yellowstone, until we get the problem fixed.
One way to recognize noise spikes is that they have no decay, they simply spike and are gone.

Well, you'll see the spikes on some other stations on the UU network, that is, as long as they have that problem. I don't know why he said "everything coming from Yellowstone." US.LKWY, along with TA.H17A close to the lake in Yellowstone are not showing these spikes. LKWY has pipecleaners still to this day, but no spikes:

www.seis.utah.edu...

And neither do many of the others on the UU network in the park. Of course LKWY and H17A are different networks, but still in Yellowstone. That's why his statement to me is not entirely true.

reply to post by PuterMan


Really Nice Work! - Appears to me that They like Your work! As do almost all of us. Well me for certain guess I can't speak for anyone else. I think you and a few others really help them out - throwing the ball around - team work. - They did offer you any additional information - that is way cool and can't believe I read that!

Yes something is amiss IMHO - the spikes are all over - take a look at the AK thread - Westcoast posted a screanshot. I have felt the boat here in New York for the past 1 1/2 weeks - IDK

When you have no clue, blame the hardware and software.
Makes perfect sense.

Sure.
Telemetry issues, and recently worse than ever. ( 4 times in 5 months, never seen before at YS )
Also issues with a very constant pattern, going on for sometimes more than 20 hours and after that nothing, not even a glitch.

Sorry Puterman, nothing personal, but I don't buy it. I prefer your microseisms theory as it sounds more colourfull. ;-)

reply to post by TrueAmerican


LKWY is different to all the other recorders in the park. It is the only US recorder as opposed to WY. Afew pages ago I surmissed that this was because LKWY had a different connection and thought maybe land line. Someone from USGS browsing the thread emailed and said my supposition was wrong, LKWY has a satellite link. It is a unique connection in the park.

Originally posted by Nidwin
When you have no clue, blame the hardware and software.
Makes perfect sense.

Sure.
Telemetry issues, and recently worse than ever. ( 4 times in 5 months, never seen before at YS )
Also issues with a very constant pattern, going on for sometimes more than 20 hours and after that nothing, not even a glitch.

Sorry Puterman, nothing personal, but I don't buy it. I prefer your microseisms theory as it sounds more colourfull. ;-)

Hi Nidwin. The point is that this does not negate the microseisms (or whatever until we sort that one out). What they are referring to here is this stuff, the spikes, which is telemetry errors.

YSB.WY..EHZ.2011.060

As I have mentioned before they are waiting for a T1 line (broadband) and then the info will be sent via that which will pretty much eliminate all of this (until a digger breaks it!!). As I understand it the microwave is unreliable, as we know, and will be dropped (not 100% on that but I think that was the gist of it.)

Originally posted by PuterMan

Originally posted by Nidwin
When you have no clue, blame the hardware and software.
Makes perfect sense.

Sure.
Telemetry issues, and recently worse than ever. ( 4 times in 5 months, never seen before at YS )
Also issues with a very constant pattern, going on for sometimes more than 20 hours and after that nothing, not even a glitch.

Sorry Puterman, nothing personal, but I don't buy it. I prefer your microseisms theory as it sounds more colourfull. ;-)

Hi Nidwin. The point is that this does not negate the microseisms (or whatever until we sort that one out). What they are referring to here is this stuff, the spikes, which is telemetry errors.

YSB.WY..EHZ.2011.060

As I have mentioned before they are waiting for a T1 line (broadband) and then the info will be sent via that which will pretty much eliminate all of this (until a digger breaks it!!). As I understand it the microwave is unreliable, as we know, and will be dropped (not 100% on that but I think that was the gist of it.)

Woops,
so I misread again, my mistake.

I didn't see this posted, so here ya go:

This event has been reviewed by a seismologist.
Magnitude 2.2
Date-Time Tuesday, March 01, 2011 at 16:01:21 UTC
Tuesday, March 01, 2011 at 09:01:21 AM at epicenter
Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones

Location 44.805°N, 111.025°W
Depth 7.8 km (4.8 miles)
Region YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK, WYOMING

earthquake.usgs.gov...

Hmmm....she's looking a bit noisy. SEISMO

ETA(wow lasertaglover...we were thinking the same thing!)