Whats going on at yellowstone?

reply to post by westcoast

I'm silly too, don't worry about it. It helps.

If it's a giant magma plume with a lot of liquid moving through it at a high rate of speed for days at a time, then maybe it could induce a long-period wave of physical "thrumming" like we see. What's the Schumann resonance again? Umm... oh; they're all at least 3 Hz. 7.83 is the main one. I dunno. All I, all we, can do is keep speculating at this point. If only the USGS would make some kind of official announcement with an official explanation that makes sense...

Originally posted by Trip3

Originally posted by Otis B Driftood
Trip3, I've heard from a source I trust that "something is up at Yellowstone" and that the Govt is censuring data...Something called a "double coupled signature " was allegedly detected and is somehow cause for alarm....Could you tell me what a "double coupled signature" is & why it's significant..Also I'd like to read your postings on that other forum..Could you say what forum it is???? Thanks..

I'm not familiar with that phrasing in any geologic or volcanic text or paper.

It seems somewhat redundant in structure, in emphasis of both "double" and "coupled".

One would imagine such a reference would be accompanied by direct indication of the two event signatures, and how they are mechanically coupled. Do you have anything further from that reference?


ETA: Regarding that "link", I would be in disregard of this forum in directing people elsewhere. Some have posted references to that site in this thread, having found it on their own. There have also been one or two persons confirming that what I indicated about the time-line there, and events at Yellowstone, was accurate.

edit on 27-2-2011 by Trip3 because: (no reason given)

If you are not familiar with the term Double Couple then I, for one, do not believe you are a Geologist that knows anything about EQ waveform studies. Just sayin.

reply to post by Thought Provoker


Well, I supose one way to look at this is to compare the previous appearances of this sig to activity in Iceland.

I don't know if I am tech savy enough for that...but I can try.

reply to post by Thought Provoker


OK here it is again low pass filtered. 10x speed.

dl.dropbox.com...

Put it through a program like audacity and watch where the scratching does indeed coincide with the fatter part of the wave.

For reasons unknown to myself I've never even looked at this thread until page 666. Not sure if it's a coincidence or if it's because I've been wrapped up in the AR/fracking thread. Regardless, I was a bit dismayed to see what was going on here at the time wondering how a thread could get to be this length with that amount of animosity and recurrent backbiting.

I've since figured out that it hasn't always been full of such, and that it has only been a recent occurrence. I am happy to see that it has settled down into a somewhat more congenial discussion. It can be difficult to accept new ideas when those ideas SHATTER one's world-view. Vehement opposition is only to be expected, and was certainly witnessed here.

I am not saying one side or the other is absolutely correct or incorrect, but it is obvious that there are two very separate and distinct schools of thought. Along with some who seem to be reaching out to each side, some from one side or the other denying any sort of consensus is possible, and others who are just baffled.

For my part, I like to take in as many sides of an argument as I can lay my hands on and scrutinize as much of the data and positions as I can. The more different the sides are the better able I am to apply what I like to call "mental interferometry" and let my mind got to work looking for patterns and gaps. Racking and stacking information, correlating my ideas against those put forth by others and then sifting the results to see if any of it makes sense.

Just because Occam had a razor, doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be used to cut the complexity out of a system.

The point I had originally meant to make when I started was this:

It seems as though one of the main argument against HT is that it is too low a frequency, am I getting that right? If that is the case (and I do not want to open a can of worms here, just putting an idea out there) then what about this possibility?

We've been taking measurements of ground motions for how long? A bit more than a hundred years? That's a drop in the ocean in relation to the time frames of the earth. What is the possibility that there are some types of events which occur that we have NO REFERENCE for due to their extreme rarity? If that were the case, we'd have no way of identifying such a happening as we have not had the chance to study such.

As to the low-frequency (non)HT signature that seems to be showing up in areas far removed from one another, what if it is like a stringed instrument where to get a lower note (frequency) you use a longer, larger string. In relation to ground movement, what if it is movement over such large areas that the frequency reported (it's seismographic signature) resembles one thing we are familiar with (HT) but is a different class of signal entirely?

Do those question even make any sense?

I'm not a geologist (or any other kind of 'ologist' for that matter), I'm just a relatively smart (at least I'd like to think so) person who reads a LOT and occasionally has good ideas. Thank you for indulging my ramblings and thank you for answering any of my multitude of questions.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical


Great post and great ideas! I know very little about reading seismograms and the like (though I'm learning very quickly via baptism by fire, pun intended!), but your thoughts about geological events that are so rare that we have no reference for comparison is veeerrrry interesting!

I LOVE information and generally like to collect it the same way you do, but In dealing with the recent HT argument, I have not had the luxury of simply enjoying the debate because of my proximity to Yellowstone, and have instead had to choose just one conclusion to agree with based on the strengths of the two sets of competing data and opinions. Nevertheless, it has been a fascinating, while gut wrenching, couple of days on this thread!

reply to post by jadedANDcynical


You are much closer to reality than you may realize. You will want to read THIS

It's about deep tremors. (see the thread in my sig line)

reply to post by westcoast


Wow, that's almost exactly what I was thinking of. Thank you for the link.

Would like to hear what some of the other 'pro-ams' think of my questions, heck even a real geologist...assuming there is one to be found...

Just poking a little fun, no need to take offense.

You'll know if I mean to offend you, trust me...

Regarding Government cover up for activity in the park, then we had one episode in 2004 that some still wonder about.

We probably all agree that government conspiracies are nothing new to the United States. Just look at Watergate. So the potential for a Yellowstone cover up by the United States government is definitely there. But is there a conspiracy to hide the truth from people?

A Yellowstone cover up would mean that the authorities on the subject (the United States Geological Survey and scientists at the University of Utah who monitor the seismic activity of Yellowstone) would have to be willingly cooperating with the United States federal government as well as local state governments on how close Yellowstone is to an eruption.

The truth about a Yellowstone cover up or government conspiracy may not be known until something actually happens, but if we look carefully at the facts, we can determine for ourselves what is happening within the depths of this iconic National Park.

Anyway, have a look at this:
The Case Of The Missing Wyoming Earthquake Underground Hiroshima-Sized Blast Called 'Mine Blast' By USGS

Yep,
Happened again on the 27th it seems. Fourth time in 5 months (September, November, January and now February)

I've checked the graphs (for the 4 months) and those reading don't only appear on the Eastern and North-Eastern graph but on all the graphs outside the Caldera. It even look like the further from the Caldera the better those readings are.

YHB, YDC, MCID

Fainter but can also be seen on
YMV and YPP

But nothing on the graphs for the recorders inside the Caldera

Weird.

Hello all,

Still alive an kicking.

I know there's no reason to belive me when I said there were no harmonic tremors. And you still might not believe the official explaination. But here it is. I wrote to the YVO.

"Robin,


The low-frequency (between 0.1 and 0.2 Hz) signal that appeared on January 25th is a classic example of microseismic noise, which arises from the coupling of wave and tidal forces with the earth. It's not common for microseisms of this intensity to appear so far from the shoreline, but it does happen from time to time. When I was stationed in Alaska, we would on occasion see episodes of microseismic noise that appeared on seismic networks throughout the Aleutians. Note that volcanic tremor (harmonic or not) is characterized by much higher frequencies, typically between 1 and 5 Hz.


The "false" earthquake reports had nothing to do with microseismic noise. They were caused when signal dropouts caused spikes on the analog seismic network that were misinterpreted by automatic earthquake location software as P-waves from an earthquake. Signal dropouts can be caused by a variety of factors, including ice and snow accumulation on transmission antennas. I know from experience that dropouts of this kind are fairly common during harsh winters.


Thanks for the video -- it looked cool. Be careful not to burn yourself!


Peter"

I'm finished on the subject.

And I'm really sorry for helping to cause all the chaos. Infections are painful and ugly. Light is the cure.

This is off-topic, so feel free to blast away.

If you think I like coming out here and telling you all I know about volcanoes, eathquakes, the moon and such, you're wrong.

I'd much rather being studying ravens. And learning their language. I just clucked at one. It responded. What good is it if I don't know what I just said?

Originally posted by Roald
Regarding Government cover up for activity in the park, then we had one episode in 2004 that some still wonder about.

We probably all agree that government conspiracies are nothing new to the United States. Just look at Watergate. So the potential for a Yellowstone cover up by the United States government is definitely there. But is there a conspiracy to hide the truth from people?

A Yellowstone cover up would mean that the authorities on the subject (the United States Geological Survey and scientists at the University of Utah who monitor the seismic activity of Yellowstone) would have to be willingly cooperating with the United States federal government as well as local state governments on how close Yellowstone is to an eruption.

The truth about a Yellowstone cover up or government conspiracy may not be known until something actually happens, but if we look carefully at the facts, we can determine for ourselves what is happening within the depths of this iconic National Park.

Anyway, have a look at this:
The Case Of The Missing Wyoming Earthquake Underground Hiroshima-Sized Blast Called 'Mine Blast' By USGS

edit on 28/2/2011 by Roald because: (no reason given)

nobody will take the risk for false alarm... and economic interrest does the rest...
so they wait till it erupts...with excuses that they diddend see it coming couse such an event would be the first time happening...

Originally posted by Roald
So the potential for a Yellowstone cover up by the United States government is definitely there. But is there a conspiracy to hide the truth from people?

No and no. I really suggest that anyone who believes this to be possible establish contact with a source at the YVO/USGS and start asking some questions about this directly. You will find this not to be the case at all.

It is easy to get disconnected from reality if you let yourself by reading posts like that. Don't. Go to the source itself, start talking, and you will see that the YVO operates in no such fashion.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by Roald
So the potential for a Yellowstone cover up by the United States government is definitely there. But is there a conspiracy to hide the truth from people?

No and no. I really suggest that anyone who believes this to be possible establish contact with a source at the YVO/USGS and start asking some questions about this directly. You will find this not to be the case at all.

It is easy to get disconnected from reality if you let yourself by reading posts like that. Don't. Go to the source itself, start talking, and you will see that the YVO operates in no such fashion.

For clarification purposes, you're then asserting that these two official documents:

1) The Department of Interior's "Presidential Memorandum on Scientific Integrity"

2) "Protocols for Geologic Hazards Response by the Yellowstone Volcano Observatory (YVO)",


... both of which I reference in my ATS post HERE, are null and have no bearing on public communications, despite repeated indications in these documents to the contrary?

What specifically are you basing your conclusion upon? A mere supposition of "Good faith"?


While you contemplate this response, I'd like to point out that the 2009 documentary "Naked Science: Super Volcano" (00:41 & 41:39 ) repeatedly shows flashes inSAR interferometry data on screen, despite that data being so old it only represents the 1996-2000 inSAR interferometry mapping, nearly a decade old , and yet this data was coming off of the computer of a geologist, Dan "Dz" Dzurisin, "Chief of the InSAR Applied to Volcano Studies project"

"DZ" Dzurisin, "Frankly, the only thing we can think of that could be down there that would be causing the uplift, would be magma. It could mean that the system is getting closer to its next eruption, and we're starting to see intrusion of magma ... we don't know."

(@42:00 regarding events in 2003, in 2009 documentary.)

Robin, good to hear from. Would love to know about the raven thing sometime.


I would really like to focus on the microseisms in the park for a bit, if we could. I mean, we could go round and round for years debating if their is a cover-up going on, and we would never get an answer. It is an all a matter of opinion. I think there are probably over a hundred pages in this thread devoted to just that discussion. I don't think it'll get us anywhere.

For those interested in the microseisms....check out the thread going right now regarding the quakes in Arkansas.

Here is helicorder from Indiana for yesterday: Indiana - 27th Someone from that area was reporting the 'sea-sick' feeling, which is why I looked.

Here is a broad-band station nearest me for yesterday, because I was having some of my 'earthquake' symptoms yesterday too, but couldn't understand how something in Arkansas could affect me:Washington State 27th

This is what that station normally looks like, BTW:Washington - 24th so the microseisms were definately pronounced.

Here is the YSB station in yellowstone on the 27th


You can clearly see the microseisms there too.

I would seriously like to do some research on these microseisms and how they correlate to the largest quakes in the past year....and also reported symptoms. This might truely be a way to predict larger quakes. Speaking of which, call me silly, but I just suddenly started feeling motion sick as I was typing this.

reply to post by Robin Marks


Robin, I'm curious, would "Peter" be Peter Cervelli?


ETA: It's interesting that your response from Peter makes reference to "volcanic tremor (harmonic or not)", with that volcanic tremor being a tremor absent any sort of harmonic resonance. I'm curious if that comment came from Peter without any sort of prompting from yourself.

reply to post by westcoast


Can't stop laughing. And I have to bite my tongue. Not laughing at you, just an absurd projection.

Yes, there's a big tidal influence. Why can't tidal influence change the magma within the caldera?
You're on the right path. Too bad more people weren't lost in some deluded wilderness of their own creation.

Originally posted by westcoast
Robin, good to hear from. Would love to know about the raven thing sometime.

I would really like to focus on the microseisms in the park for a bit, if we could. I mean, we could go round and round for years debating if their is a cover-up going on, and we would never get an answer. It is an all a matter of opinion. I think there are probably over a hundred pages in this thread devoted to just that discussion. I don't think it'll get us anywhere.

For those interested in the microseisms....check out the thread going right now regarding the quakes in Arkansas.

Here is helicorder from Indiana for yesterday: Indiana - 27th Someone from that area was reporting the 'sea-sick' feeling, which is why I looked.

Here is a broad-band station nearest me for yesterday, because I was having some of my 'earthquake' symptoms yesterday too, but couldn't understand how something in Arkansas could affect me:Washington State 27th

This is what that station normally looks like, BTW:Washington - 24th so the microseisms were definately pronounced.

Here is the YSB station in yellowstone on the 27th


You can clearly see the microseisms there too.

I would seriously like to do some research on these microseisms and how they correlate to the largest quakes in the past year....and also reported symptoms. This might truely be a way to predict larger quakes. Speaking of which, call me silly, but I just suddenly started feeling motion sick as I was typing this.

A partner of mine has done extensive research of the microseism claim, and has had a difficult time correlating the appearance of the claimed microseism signatures, with any sort of storm event in the north Atlantic all the way up to Greenland. These signatures have occurred even at times when the area has been dominated by a high pressure system.