Whats going on at yellowstone?

Originally posted by Robin Marks
I wanted to understand these webicorders and the quakes at Yellowstone. So I went through each one. Year by year all the way back. I check out every station and looked for the quakes and anything I thought wierd. I saw too many wierd things. It was obvious the signals being relayed were a mess as well. Trust me I know Yellowstone. Every page and every wierd squiggle.


I knew I had seen that signature on the old webicorders. Several times. God, I did not want to go back through them. Yesterday I tried for ten minutes. Gave up. Tonight's been a wierd one. So I went looking for more wierdness. And I found one, there's more but I'm done because I've been here before. Go look for yourself and you'll find all kinds of "harmonic tremors". It's interference just like I said.

Here's the webicoder from Nov 17 2008, YSB

www.isthisthingon.org...

Same day MCID

www.isthisthingon.org...

YSB Nov 18 the signal gets worse.

www.isthisthingon.org...

Now compare to Trick3's harmonic tremors from Jan 25th.

www.isthisthingon.org...

They are exactly the same. You can find more on other days. I've seen them. Don't need to find all of them.


I think I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there were no hamonic tremors on January 25 th.
Trick3's very first premise was wrong.

That's good sleuthing. However your absent any "proof" or argument as to why those would not be harmonic tremors.

You've examined November 17th and 18th 2008 and somehow you've concluded these signatures are some sort of unexplained "interference", yet you've overlooked the larger picture. .

November 17 2008, is conspicuous for being mere weeks previous to a period from December to early January 2009 where there was a "quake swarm" of approximately 1,200 quakes, which is the equivalent of the average for an entire year. That quake swarm in this period was not part of a singular event, but rather part of an larger, extended volcanic period of "Extraordinary Caldera Deformation" that occurred between 2004 and 2010, and appears to be continuing to this day.

What those harmonic tremors represent is the expansion of of magma under positive pressure, into conduits comprised of faults and fractures, ultimately filling these. The aggressive magma expansion continued into December and January and became the cause of the prolific quakes in that period of time.





The graph in the bottom portion of the above image, obtained from USGS HERE, shows the spike in the bar graph for December '08, January '09, which second only to the period in January 2010.

Of note, in the West-East and North-South transects, plotting the quakes to depth, is the fact that these quakes in this period of time are predominantly in two locations:

1) On the eastern side of caldera footprint, north of Yellowstone Lake, and part of an uplift that continues beneath that lake, and

2) West of the park, outside Wyoming, near Hebgen Lake, Montana

Both of these locations, above, demonstrate a shallowing of quakes, from depth to near ground surface, representing the rise and expansion of magma at these locations, which is only a continuation of the expansion into fractures and faults that caused the preceding harmonic tremor signatures.

Interesting Side Note: An Epoch Times/AP story on bison migrations from January 2011, referenced the sizable migration that occurred in the Winter of 2008 concluding, "In the last major migration in 2008, around 1,600 bison were killed in Yellowstone,"

Events would seem to corroborate my indication that these are indeed harmonic tremors. Suddenly there's no need to blame the signatures on some unexplained "interference".

Furthermore, it was my actual understanding of these quakes, and harmonic tremors, that brought me to this forum. believing I would find an audience desiring to spread the word about what is undeniably occurring at Yellowstone. Specifically, the span between those two points, enumerated above, along with other areas of instability established by other quakes, outline the margins of a proto-caldera that would be far greater in surface area than that of the last "super" eruption.

And for the record, Robin, the nick is "Trip", an abbreviation for triple, as in 3. There's no "trick" to any of this.

reply to post by Trip3


There is no point speaking to anymore. You're proven wrong. There are many other examples of those signals on many different days and different years. I went over every single one of them when I was studying Yellowstone. I'm not going to bother digging through the rest to give another dozen days of the same thing cause you'll only find something stupid to say. I'm really done cause I have proof. You don't.


[snip].

Mod edit: stay on topic.

reply to post by Trip3

Both of these locations, above, demonstrate a shallowing of quakes, from depth to near ground surface, representing the rise and expansion of magma at these locations, which is only a continuation of the expansion into fractures and faults that caused the preceding harmonic tremor signatures.

I do not believe that it is possible to make this interpretation from the graphs as presented. What the graph shows is indeed that the quakes occurred in two locations on the whole but the graph does not demonstrate the shallowing of the quakes. There is no time element involved in the graph therefore it is not possible to infer a shallowing over time, only that there was a range of quakes from near zero to deeper.

Adding a time element into the data shows the true picture of the progression of depths. The data for this graph was taken from the ANSS data catalog using a circular search that encompasses most of the park.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/22797428ef11.png[/atsimg]

The first graph is from 01 Dec 2008 to 31 Dec 2008. On this graph there is indeed an apparent shallowing of the depths when we observe the depths against a linear time progression (Each time being a point rather than the analogue representation of the position on the graph)



I then collected data from 01 Dec 2008 through to 25 Feb 2011 and produced the same graph.



It would seem that the trend does not in fact continue through 2009 and 2010 but in fact shows a deepening of the quake depths tend again until we approach 2011 (Polynomial trend). The linear trend is however downwards.

I am not sure than one can infer magma movement from this data but I am open to reasons as to why this might be the case.

reply to post by PuterMan



PM those graphs are fascinating, and I do sincerely appreciate your having done them.

Sorry, I had coffee brewing -- without water in the pot, the post office closing shortly, etc etc.


While I understand the point of your graphs and comment "I do not believe that it is possible to make this interpretation from the graphs as presented." , my statement wasn't offered quite that litterally.


When I said "progressive shallowing", I wasn't necessarily referring to strictly and sequentially, particularly not over a broad area. That's just not how quakes nor fracturization of rock occurs even in a limited area, with many quakes occurring as hybrid events, with a much-less-defined p-wave, from partial immersion in the magma itself.


It might be interesting to see the plot within a specific radius of the two enumerated areas of concern, but probably not worth the effort.

What is fascinating is that your second graph does show a progressive stepping-off (and deepening) of the quakes, which probably has to do with a lessening of the "quake swarm" event itself, represented by this magmatic transgression event, and return to more "normalcy", in the midst of a much larger period of "extraordinary caldera deformation."



I think it's fair to say that by "shallowing" I did not mean there would no longer be deep quakes, particularly over a broad area and given a highly varied contact margin between the fluid interface.

No harmonic tremors.

For those of you that are sick of hearing me say this, I am sick of saying it. Today someone sent me a private message and they admitted how upset they were by what's happening with all the talk of tremors. It is causing them great stress and they are having a serious problem. I did my best to reassure them.

But once again, I want to swear, once again, Trick3 is dismisses the earlier signals and tries to say that they were harmonic tremors which caused the swarm of 2008 under Yellowstone Lake. As I've said, a couple years ago I went through every single webicorder page. I said that I saw this pattern before and it was interference.

So, 2004 -2011 have to be eliminated because they could be tied to the "EXTRAORDINARY CALDERA DEFORMATION".

Here's the signals on November 31 2003, before the injection of new magma started the "EXTRAORDINARY CALDERA DEFORMATION"

Don't ya think if we've been having harmonic tremors since 2003, somebody would have noticed by now?

How many scientists from around the world have looked at Yellowstone's data and somehow they all missed the obvious signs of harmonic tremors?

Are all the geologists and siesmologists from every other country in the world forced into a gag order?

Is this the stupidest argument you've ever had Robin?
Almost.

I'm not talking to you trick3. I'm talking to the person who was upset by your claims and felt the need to email me. And to everyone else you've upset.

Because of the terms and conditions, I can't call you a fraud. That would be name calling. But I can say your agruments and statements have been disturbing and void of fact.

www.isthisthingon.org...

Originally posted by tallblondealien
These appear to be small, shallow quakes, and are more than likely just letting off a little steam. I would be more worried in this region, if there was no activity. That would indicate to me that something deep inside was building up. That would worry me. Yellowstone has always been a very active caldera. Daily it releases its pressure, like Old Faithfull. Arkansas has been more active in the last 6 months than yellowstone.

While that rationale about "something deep inside building up" might be applicable to fault zones, it's really "not so hot" regarding volcanoes, and is actually entirely inapplicable.

I've yet to hear the source of these believed building stresses for Arkansas and New Madrid, and I myself actually do find those lesser quakes there to be "relieving" (pun in 10 did).

What little conspiratorialist that exists within me, finds the planned 'Quake Readiness" exercise scheduled for May to be highly suspect. But then Arkansas and the areas along the Mississippi River are ideal staging/triage/rescue areas in the event that Yellowstone were to erupt, as evidenced by the widest dispersal of ash from historic eruptions.

This belief regarding New Madrid would tend to be corroborated by a scientific study in 2009 that found no buildup of fault stress in the New Madrid area (story)

"Our findings suggest the steady-state model of quasi-cyclical earthquakes that works well for faults at the boundaries of tectonic plates, such as the San Andreas fault, does not apply to the New Madrid fault," said Calais, who is a professor of earth and atmospheric sciences. "At plate boundaries, faults move at a rate that is consistent with the rate of earthquakes so that past events are a reliable guide to the future. In continents, this does not work. The past is not necessarily a key to the future, which makes estimating earthquake hazard particularly difficult."

The varied geo-mechanics involved in causing "quakes" are critical in the interpretative methods applied to those areas. Volcanoes are not the same as tectonic boundaries, which are not the same as intercontinental fault zones.

This simple fact alone is reasonable cause to find the government's sudden focus (pun in 10 did) on New Madrid, not only inappropriate, but also highly suspect..

Beyond that, the signatures now being debated are NOT any sort of "quake", nor are they any sort of mystical "interference", as prejudicially dismissed by some armchair analysts. Quakes are localized geologic phenomenon, having an epicenter and a point of focus. These are no such thing.

Originally posted by Trip3

Originally posted by ashleys27
reply to post by Trip3

 

Can I ask what exactly was the point of your post? You come on a month later and claim this happened, is it to warn us or what? Were you involved in these "closed door" meetings? It sorta seems like fear mongering to me.

edit on 23-2-2011 by ashleys27 because: (no reason given)

I post on another forum particularly targeting politics, however, I've a background in "anomalies" going back to 2000.

On that other forum there were general discussions on "strange world events" and I was brought a seismogram from Yellowstone and asked what I thought of it, as I am known to be a geologist and geophysicist. To be blunt, I just about **** myself. And then began to employ a series of contacts with others specifically attached to USGS and Yellowstone, which put me into an uncomfortable position of knowing details I cannot say, as these would cause that avenue of communication to be entirely shut down, along with possibly much more severe implications for persons involved.

Since then I've tried to get a known spokesperson to appear on Coast To Coast AM. While he initially was very enthusiastic about doing so, even though he'd be reversing a position expressed in a recent appearance there. he quickly became cold on the idea once I impressed upon him the severity of the events and what might ensue. I'm referring to not only government repercussions, but also panic in general populace, and perhaps even collapse of the stock market.

Trip, this seismogram you were brought, did you post it here? I didn't see it if you did? And is it something that you all have been referring to since?

I am curious about what made you so shocked? And what exactly did others you showed it to say about it in their own words, as best you can remember?

Originally posted by SunnyDee

Originally posted by Trip3

Originally posted by ashleys27
reply to post by Trip3

 

Can I ask what exactly was the point of your post? You come on a month later and claim this happened, is it to warn us or what? Were you involved in these "closed door" meetings? It sorta seems like fear mongering to me.

edit on 23-2-2011 by ashleys27 because: (no reason given)

I post on another forum particularly targeting politics, however, I've a background in "anomalies" going back to 2000.

On that other forum there were general discussions on "strange world events" and I was brought a seismogram from Yellowstone and asked what I thought of it, as I am known to be a geologist and geophysicist. To be blunt, I just about **** myself. And then began to employ a series of contacts with others specifically attached to USGS and Yellowstone, which put me into an uncomfortable position of knowing details I cannot say, as these would cause that avenue of communication to be entirely shut down, along with possibly much more severe implications for persons involved.

Since then I've tried to get a known spokesperson to appear on Coast To Coast AM. While he initially was very enthusiastic about doing so, even though he'd be reversing a position expressed in a recent appearance there. he quickly became cold on the idea once I impressed upon him the severity of the events and what might ensue. I'm referring to not only government repercussions, but also panic in general populace, and perhaps even collapse of the stock market.

Trip, this seismogram you were brought, did you post it here? I didn't see it if you did? And is it something that you all have been referring to since?

I am curious about what made you so shocked? And what exactly did others you showed it to say about it in their own words, as best you can remember?

Yes it's been posted. Here's an example from YSB station:

www.isthisthingon.org...

But it was not a matter of just "one seismogram", nor was it just a matter of numerous seismograms showing "a signature"....

But rather it is significant because numerous seismograms are showing that signature across the park, over an extended period of time.

You can look for yourself. Go to the below URL, Set the date to Jan 25 2011, click "Generate Report" and then view the thumbnails.

www.isthisthingon.org...

What we're looking at is obviously not the most pronounced seismic signature, but it is quite certainly the most significant signature at that time.

The last time I saw a signature that well defined, I was sitting atop an active volcanic eruption.

reply to post by Trip3


Ok did that, generated the report, but it means nothing to me, Just bumpy lines.

What did your friends in high places say? That's what interests me.
Thanks.

switchboard.nrdc.org...

Originally posted by SunnyDee
reply to post by Trip3

 

Ok did that, generated the report, but it means nothing to me, Just bumpy lines.

What did your friends in high places say? That's what interests me.
Thanks.

Picture yourself making a phone call to someone whom you've gone on vacations with, your kids played together, your wife knows his wife, and your intention is only to ask yet another question about some specific concern regarding Yellowstone, as you've done so many times before. Suddenly the response is not only close-lipped, but irritated and even hostile, indicating an inability to comment.

With decades of employment in the geologic field, I have numerous friends and contacts, some of whom have provided input on this consideration. However the only one that really matteres is the contact made that day.

Alert.

If Trick3 is correct, and those are harmonic tremors on Jan 27th, as shown here.

www.isthisthingon.org...

And if these are in fact harmonic tremors, we've got a major volcanic event right now!!!!!

I've found a live webcorder showing the exact same thing. Here have a look for yourself and you'll see we have exactly the same signatures right now happening here.

folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu...

LOOOOOK1

The same signatures. So we have harmonic tremors showing up right now on a webicorder. A webicorder in Arkansas. Does this mean that there's a volcano under Arkanas?

We need to call the president. There's harmonic tremors under Arkansas. Head for the hills.

Just in case you need clarification. The preceeding was sarcasm.

Originally posted by Robin Marks
Alert.

If Trick3 is correct, and those are harmonic tremors on Jan 27th, as shown here.

www.isthisthingon.org...

And if these are in fact harmonic tremors, we've got a major volcanic event right now!!!!!

I've found a live webcorder showing the exact same thing. Here have a look for yourself and you'll see we have exact the same signatures right now happening here.

folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu...

LOOOOOK1

The same signatures. So we have harmonic tremors showing up right now on a webicorder. A webicorder in Arkansas. Does this mean that there's a volcano under Arkanas?

We need to call the president. There's harmonic tremors under Arkansas. Head for the hills.

Just in case you need clarification. The preceeding was sarcasm.

Unless Woolly Hollow State Park has sprouted a volcano, on a Saturday with a temperature of 57 degrees and only 10 miles from Conway, and that explains all of the concerns about the New Madrid network, I'm guessing it's not the same thing.

I can direct one to seismograms at Yellowstone that look like landslides, but are just a herd of elk.

I can point to strong P-wave signatures that look like seismic charges, but it's really only ice cracking on the telemetry.

I've even looked at your favorite YMR station and seen a signature sometime after midnight that looks a lot like, not only large scale harmonic tremors, but harmonic tremors with violent "chugging", a spasmodic, explosive de-gassing.. but it's really only some vehicle idling very close to that seismic station.

This is why I contacted someone on-site upon seeing the signatures.

Just in case you need clarification, the preceding was harsh reality.

reply to post by Trip3


So correct me if I'm wrong, what you're basically saying is you asked a question and your friend told you nothing. Hmm...If I'm not correct then why don't you tell us EXACTLY what this insider info is that you know, people have asked you various times and all you say is the same old "this is a guy I go to the superbowl with yada yada yada"...which is all fine and dandy but frankly I'm sick of hearing it.

reply to post by Trip3


You really can't directly answer anything. The two webicorders I showed have exactly the same interference pattern. Either Arkansas is experiencing harmonic treamors right at this moment, or Yellowstone didn't have harmonic tremors on January 25th. You only get to pick one.

They're exactly the same pattern.

There is no way on this planet you are a geologist.

Originally posted by Robin Marks
reply to post by Trip3

 

You really can't directly answer anything. The two webicorders I showed have exactly the same interference pattern. Either Arkansas is experiencing harmonic treamors right at this moment, or Yellowstone didn't have harmonic tremors on January 25th. You only get to pick one.

They're exactly the same pattern.

There is no way on this planet you are a geologist.

As I matter of fact, I answered your erroneous statments and again false assertion. I responded in a fashion so as to drive home the fact that one cannot "know what every squiggle means", and that one needs to be intimately familiar with, not only the seismic station, the location, the environment, and the weather, but also the geology involved.

What I'm telling you is that, by your own applied rationale, Arkansas is sprouting a volcano, and this does then suitably justify all the concern about the New Madrid area. This must be true because the geologists in Yellowstone do know what is going on, and did find due cause for heightened alarm over the condition there.

If this resolution does not jive with reality, then perhaps there's another factor that you're overlooking.

I am actually a geologist in quite a lot of ways, on this planet, and recognized as such.

[snip]

Honestly... one of the two (Yellowstone & New Madrid) and/or both will cause catastrophe. There will actually be a world-wide earthquake soon. And there are far more important things to worry about and bicker over than this - things that go beyond this dying world and our physical vessels and what happens to any of it.


Mod edit: off-topic part removed.