Whats going on at yellowstone?

reply to post by kennylee


I can't seem to find any information on locations. Puterman tried as well but you have to pay for documents in Wyoming.

Originally posted by Robin Marks
reply to post by kennylee

 

I can't seem to find any information on locations. Puterman tried as well but you have to pay for documents in Wyoming.

Thanks for trying anyway. Do you have any idea how many of these wells might be located around Yellowstone? This is a serious concern. These people are playing with innocent lives, since I believe that fracking does indeed cause earthquakes, thanks to your research on fracking. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Yellowstone at all...

reply to post by Trip3

Do you really think my contact sent me all his work on why those are harmonic tremors? Perhaps you imagine I demanded of him, that he "show his work"?

Yes. Because if I was telling someone, even on the quiet, that Yellowstone was going to erupt I would be darn sure that I presented my facts. Even if I was speaking to Dr Lowenstern I would expect him to present his findings, and I am sure he would.

Requiring evidence is a great thing and I applaud it. However sometimes the simple fact is that evidence is not at hand.

Incorrect unless of course you are taking about religious belief in the which case evidence may not be to hand and may not be required. We are talking about a volcano. Evidence IS required.

I've shown quite clearly why there's been no public statement on these issues.

In my opinion all you have done is to misinterpret the statement and attempt to use it as a cloak to excuse your inability to back your claims. There is no 'gag order'.

I don't know how many times this has been asked by myself and others on this thread but here goes once again:

Demonstrate why you believe those to be harmonic tremors. You have provided no evidence. You have hinted a cloak and dagger goings on, none of which can be substantiated.

I have asked you to get the waveforms for the 25th since I cannot as I am not a geologist. This alone would prove the point, as listening to them would answer the question immediately. It would also mean that we could perform the necessary calculations to substantiate your theory.

You have again sidestepped the Fourier transform and spectrogram issue.

I shall say nothing further to you until this is provided.

Look into my eyes. Relax. Breath. Think a field, a rolling gentle field with tall grasses blowing to and fro. Lay back. Shut your eyes and let the sun come through your eyelids. Feel the warmth. Chew on a blade of grass. Listen, Listen to the wind and notice the other wild noises. Breath. Open your eyes and glance at the eagles as they gluide around in the updrafts. It's a wonderful world. Breath in through your nose. Smell. Nothing's fresher.

Now snap out of it. And listen to what you told me. I've stopped. I know you said you are going to, but keep your word. No straight arrow will fly your way. I opposed almost every view you have, 'cept two, fracking and...
yet we can disagree civilly. So something else is wrong here. And we know what it is.

I've been troubled. Whenever I ask myself, "robin, what they hell are you doing?" I have to pull back and reflect. Firslty, I know I've upset many many people. I don't not like conflict, and neither do you. My position is peacekeeper. I joined the Candanian Forces for just that reason. I don't like conflict. And I will stand in bewteen warring factions to maintain fairness. It's a principle that defines my soul and being. I will stand for peace, but if you cross a line, I become a soldier. A soldier to protect you. Mainly the women, because we're nothing with them. No children laughing. It's the only thing that keeps me from blowing off my head. I want no conflict, and I am a recluse because of this. I find too many stupid people fighting over too many stupid things. Meanwhile, the real crisises burn on and no one is attending them. Too busy in courts and meeting rooms when the fire is out in the forest, or in the someon's backyare who lives in Greenbrier.

www.youtube.com...

My trouble is that I am sworn to watch Yellowstone. Believing it or not. It's my calllllling. And now I feel divided. But that's where the easy answer can be found. In the middle. And with some risk analysis.

It's simple. Arkansas is in danger at this moment. The crisis is now. It's happening. The wells are bad. The water's bad. The citizens are troubled because the ground won't stop shaking. And there is a chance a large earthquake can strike. If you keeping up I don't have to explain what's happening.

I am a soldier. I am a sentinal. If anyone comes on here and threatens this important discussion. I will challenge them a the drop of a hat. I know you don't like the ugliness. Sorry, fights are ugly and dirty and messy. That's why I want peace. I have nothing more to say to Trick 3 because he wouldn't even answer a simple question directly. Enough said.

Trust me. You might like it when I knock some heads. But remember, I was protecting you. I was protecting this thread. If I were a dog, I'd be a terrier. The smallest, meanest watchdogs on earth. Completley loyal. I love this thread too much to have someone come here an fouling up the place with things that smell.

I've never attacked any of you. Well, there was old farmer. But there again he was mocking and made it personal. I'm so glad I backed off a bit, wrote the park and got the real answer. I love it when people, especially new people come here and wonder what's going on. At least they're aware. And all the people here can help you answer your question and help you to learn. That's what it's all about learning. And trust me I'm ready to learn. But if something someone is telling me doesn't pass the smell test and then they refuse to provide information to support a conclusion, then I will have no part of it. You start calling anyone here a chick or talk to them in any rude or disrespectful way. I'm coming after you. Hopefully that's no one. I don't want to do that.

I am a peace keeper. I will hold my ground at attention. I will not move or be provoke into reaction unless the oppossing combat has broken the agree lines and is firing upon the position. By that standard, I step forward to halt an invasion.

We are free loving peaceful people here. But we will not be invaded.

I need to go help the people of Arkansas now. I am quite sure many of them have homes that are starting to show cracks in the foundation. And that's only the tip of the iceberg.

Sorry. all. Feel free to ignore my long explainations. But they're documents. Documents of a great struggle.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Click here for more information.

kenny, ya that was not really what I started out to write. If you want. Find the maps with the drilling fields. Then go on Google Earth and fly around the area. There's fields to the south of Yellowstone that are mentioned in the movie Gasland. So they shouldn't be that hard to find. I've tried several times to start to do it, then I couldn't handle the thought of finding them. I was horrified when I found the holes everywhere in Arkansas.

It's like being covered head to to by mosquitos.

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Trip3

 

I've shown quite clearly why there's been no public statement on these issues.

In my opinion all you have done is to misinterpret the statement and attempt to use it as a cloak to excuse your inability to back your claims. There is no 'gag order'.

I wish I could agree with you that there is "no gag order"... but in all honesty, that's unfortunately not the case.

Let me clarify - I'm not wanting to argue the definition of "gag order". I'm just trying to show that they can indeed, and more than likely do, withhold information to us, the "public".

A rule change at the U.S. Geological Survey restricts agency scientists from publishing or discussing research without that information first being screened by higher-ups at the agency. Special screening will be given to "findings or data that may be especially newsworthy, have an impact on government policy, or contradict previous public understanding to ensure that proper officials are notified and that communication strategies are developed." The scientists at the USGS cover such controversial topics as global warming. Before, studies were released after an anonymous peer review of the research.

Source

Can or should the U.S. government be involved in the publication of scientific articles? Should scientists have to submit to a public relations expert any papers they wish to publish so that this expert who has no scientific background can approve them using the justification that they might have high media value.

And more...

The new requirements state that the USGS's communications office must be "alerted about information products containing high-visibility topics or topics of a policy-sensitive nature.

The agency's director, Mark Myers, and its communications office also must be told - prior to any submission for publication - "of findings or data that may be especially newsworthy, have an impact on government policy, or contradict previous public understanding to ensure that proper officials are notified and that communication strategies are developed."

Controlling Science

And straight from the horses mouth at the USGS:

USGS Fundamental Science Practices

USGS Peer Review Agenda

I could list a thousand more references. Or 689,000 to be exact.

If you wish to look into it further, please go to Google and search for yourself. I used the following terms in my search:

bush + restricts + usgs

reply to post by UtahRosebud


My applicable definition of "gag order" is a restraint applied specifically, on a case-by-case basis.

We've made "Science" into the the fundamentally dishonest and corrupt process, bureaucratized and throttled by government controls, and it's been done it with our tax dollars, and by an egregious abuse of authority, and is offered as if any portion of it might be beneficial to science itself.

reply to post by Trip3

Okay, Sunshine, then why don't you find me access to that 6 terabytes of data secured in a limited-access computer in Utah, and then I'll show you what I can do with geophysical data.

Actually it is not secured. I have now managed to get at the data and here is a wave file created from it. This runs from 07:59:56 on the 25th January, 2011 and is played back at 20 times speed. (4 MB file by the way)

YSB_EHZ_20110125-075956 - The sound file

As you can clearly hear this is not HT.

Since you wanted access here is a little piece of the data in SAC format direct from the BUD servers. Now show me what you can do with geophysical data. Show me how this is HT

Case closed. Fail on your part. Goodbye unless you wish to remain and participate in normal discussions.

Edit: Oops, just realised I never added the link to the SAC file.

Originally posted by Trip3
reply to post by westcoast

 

As a result of these harmonic tremor signatures on January 25th, a team of USGS/University of Utah geophysicists went up to Yellowstone on January 27th, leaving from Salt Lake City, worked through that night taking down seismograph stations, to put them on-line the next morning, and then began conducting seismic refraction studies, with these detonations witnessed in real time. I also know that on February 2, numerous terabytes of data were secured on a dedicated University of Utah computer, and a closed-door meeting was held from Yellowstone that day.

Here is a helpful site to view all the daily Yellowstone Seismograms at once.

www.isthisthingon.org...


If you set the date to January 27, 2011, and update the thumbnail display, you can see that the University of Utah geologist team turned off the seismographs all at around 22:27 MST..

If you then change the date to January 28th, and update the seismograms, you can see they powered the stations back up at about 05:36 MST. Some of the stations are initially turned on, but not set to register (having flat seismic lines).

Then at 11:15 MST these few stations are set to register seismic waves as well, then shortly thereafter they began setting off a series of seismic charges, shown by pronounced p-waves with no s-wave signatures. This is seen in the seismograms below

YJC (Yellowstone: Joseph's Coat)
www.isthisthingon.org...

YMP (Yellowstone: Mirror Lake Plateau)
www.isthisthingon.org...

You also seem to only answer or fight what you want to answer or fight.

I will ask my question again.

Why would YVO and people im charge of YS do and act as you mention after January 25?

1. Your HT, your words not mine, didn't start on the 25th but on the 24th. For me, as Europeen it effectively started on the 25th but you're from the other side of the great water and for you it started on the 24th.

2. Why quite an impressive reaction from YVO and people in charge of YS after the 25th? I clearly showed that the "activity" that you consider, your words not mine, as HT on the 24-25th of January are only the third annomaly in the past 5 monhts. We had the same activity in September and November.

3. You came here and gave the idea, feeling, message that terrible things where going on at YS and you scared a lot of people around here. You gave no prove of anything, meanwhile you and your "garbage" scared people. Some of them I know, not in person but through this forum, for years. Mother and husband with kids around, looking for asnwers and you came here with what I consider now a HOAX.

4. Robin is not a God or some kind of genius and we don't take his word or ideas for granted. But, this is my personal opinion, I think he has a link with, how should I say, earth, our Planet, soil. Anyway. He is often right and is able to tell us
"Guys and girls, keep a look at this at that time. Got a feeling. May be I am wrong but still ..."
I disagreed with him, Anemarie too btw, about YMR showing everything and not showing any sing of HT, your words not mine, on YMR. But the difference between you and me is, that I showed and proved why while you are only insulting without showing any evidence supporting your ideas or thoughts.

5. I disagreed with Puterman, my mistake as I probably didn't understood the entire meaning of his post, and here again I showed him and all of you why. God knows Puterman is someone I respect and admire but when I think he's wrong or "incomplete" I will post here and expose my point of view. You again only insult people and pretend to have access or information to stuff it's impossible to check. You don't give any proof about what you claim to be the truth but hammer on the fact we had HT at YS on the 25th of January 2011. I looked at the graphs and, repeating myself again, again and again.
No Harmonic Tremors on those graphs. Zero NADA.

Nid

reply to post by onthelookout
Timeframes, people, timeframes. Look again at the image Roald posted (I have it on my site too, for reference; www.isthisthingon.org... ). See the time range at the bottom? It clearly shows between 15 and 20 peaks in 10 seconds. Frequency (peaks per second) is the reciprocal of wavelength (seconds per peak); therefore, the frequency of the harmonic tremors in that image is 1.5 to 2.0 Hz.

Now look at the 1/25 image everyone's freaking out about. Each vertical grey line is a full minute, and I estimate there are about about 12 peaks per minute. That works out to 0.2Hz for the frequency, much too slow to be harmonic tremors; those are always at least 1 Hz (see this and this and Google if you don't believe me). Whatever's on the YSB trace, it is not harmonic tremors. Notice how on this USGS page, that sample image has absolutely no time range shown on the X axis? Unforgiveably negligent of them. Very unscientific, and very misleading. We should all demand a refund from the IRS for such misspent tax dollars.

In brief, don't just look at the shape of a waveform to determine what it is. That isn't enough to go on.

My apologies if anyone else already clarified this. One day it was at page 666; the next time I looked, there were 11 new pages. I'm a bit pressed for time right now. Work sucks.

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Trip3

 

Okay, Sunshine, then why don't you find me access to that 6 terabytes of data secured in a limited-access computer in Utah, and then I'll show you what I can do with geophysical data.

Actually it is not secured. I have now managed to get at the data and here is a wave file created from it. This runs from 07:59:56 on the 25th January, 2011 and is played back at 20 times speed. (4 MB file by the way)

YSB_EHZ_20110125-075956 - The sound file

As you can clearly hear this is not HT.

Since you wanted access here is a little piece of the data in SAC format direct from the BUD servers. Now show me what you can do with geophysical data. Show me how this is HT

Case closed. Fail on your part. Goodbye unless you wish to remain and participate in normal discussions.

edit on 25/2/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)

Aww, you DISAPPOINTED me!

"As you can clearly hear this is not HT" I LIKED that! I missed that proof in undergrad and grad classes!

So where's your "spectrogram and fourier transform as PROOF" that it is a harmonic tremor? Did that "proof" change too? You're pack-peddling faster than the naming of "global warming"!

In my brief time here, you've gone from absolute statements that it was "telemetry interference", to microseisms to "See! (hear) it's not HTs!"

I gotta say, I am sorely tempted to put my contact's name up, or just his credentials, just to throw a real span in the works here, but I'd violate a trust in doing so, and put numerous persons at risk. This conversation has strayed so far from anything reasonable that it's only value now is humor.

Wow, just came to finally see why the yellowstone thread is so active this week. Went to the last page and had to backtrack to page 666 and read almost all of it.
,
First off I know nothing, but it seems Trip came here to tell something, something strange that has siesmologists tight lipped. I don't get it all, but I get that he wanted to share and seems pretty knowledgeable. In my opinion he was attacked for what was a clear difference of opinion of things that happened around 1/25. He argued back, but then is called a flat out liar!

That was very harsh. And you 3 have been very unprofessional here. Tone it down. There might be truth to what he says, and he might be paranoid by some sort of silence that is not what he thinks it's about. But he might be onto something.

He is not the only one with an ego here, that is clear.

Time will tell, Keep your ears to the ground, Westcoast hears a lot, she might be onto something here too.

Don't forget "The more you know, the more you don't know" that's my motto.

2.2 2011/02/25 12:02:04 44.737 -110.779 5.3 27 km ( 17 mi) ENE of West Yellowstone, MT
2.2 2011/02/25 04:34:47 44.619 -110.370 1.7 54 km ( 33 mi) SSE of Gardiner, MT

reply to post by Trip3

So where's your "spectrogram and fourier transform as PROOF" that it is a harmonic tremor? Did that "proof" change too? You're pack-peddling faster than the naming of "global warming"!

Rather an unintelligent statement that actually. I just said it is NOT HT so how can I provide a Fourier Transform to prove that it is?

No YOU take the SAC data and prove that it is.

Obviously you have forgotten that HT sounds like this




By the way THIS is a fourier transform of the first part of that file. Unfortunately the software that I have for that does not understand scales < 1kHz so the graduations unmarked on the side a 1Hz marks. You can see that this does not even get off the ground let alone make it to HT frequencies. The spike is a noise in the file that I have not identified.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cc0cabcd386b.png[/atsimg]

OK so I have done my bit. Now prove this wrong and your assuptions right.



By the way FFT mentioned on screen stands for Fast Fourier Transforms in case you are unaware.

reply to post by Trip3


I don't mean to butt in because I'm not anything resembling a "geologist" like you claim to be.. but I've been watching this thread for quite a while and have found it to be highly interesting and informative. As an observer, I was even some-what interested in what you have been trying to say, but I'm having a hard time. See, these members that you have been bickering with are highly respected in the ATS community and many of them have been on this thread for a looong time. You come in here and start mouthing off to every one of them, and you have the audacity to play the victim with every one of your posts and not ONCE still provided evidence of HT's.

Your posts are constantly offensive, and all you're doing is spending many words trying to defend them.

Examples *just* from your recent long winded response to Puterman, who I think is a HUGE contributor to this thread.

my first belief that you're a sharp guy, as you seem to be engaging a strong run for village idiot.

Village idiot? Get a clue man! (and where the hell are the mods anyway?)

Okay, Sunshine

Yes, because arrogant patronizing statements always help when trying to make a point.

you say quite a lot of complete and utter BS without any substance

Utter BS? I think alsmot ALL of his posts in relation to EQs and Volcanoes are anything BUT BS and quite full of substance. I'm willing to wager that anyone who has monitored this board would agree.

Seriously, if you want to engage in any meaningful discussion in this thread, then you need to completely change your delivery.

Originally posted by PuterMan
Obviously you have forgotten that HT sounds like this

PM, finally. Been after that file for a while, so glad you found it man. Do me a favor please and give me the rundown on that file? What speed up rate, what sample rate, and the linear run time of the original signal, please? And also where it came from, what event, date, place. Sorry to ask for all that, but that is one of the rarest files ever posted here. So I feel it's important to document with as much info as possible.

Because comparisons with future events will be made!

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Sorry just edited my post to add the screenshot of the Fourier Transform on that YSB file.

The web site says:

"This signal, which has been sped up by a factor a hundred to make it audible, in reality has a dominant periodicity of about 1 cycle per second (1 Hz). In the field, it sounds like a chugging sound with 1 s puffs, and it is not tonal at all. We lose our sense of tonality at frequencies below around 16 Hz, so infrasound, however harmonious, will be perceived by us more like a beat than a tune."

Source

Actually this is not the file I was looking for. I still have not found that one.

Oh, look what I found. Last year (Feb. 3rd), I DID see harmonic tremors, at the YPM station... and I uploaded a screenshot of it here. I've no idea what page of this thread it's on, but here it is again. THIS is what they look like, and the frequency (40 to 50 peaks in 10 seconds) is between 4 and 5 Hz; that's what the red line across the top image (Y-axis is frequency), and the spike in the second image (X-axis is frequency), indicates. The bottom image is exactly one minute wide; imagine all of that compressed into the space available on the typical seismogram. It wouldn't look like an HT at all at that scale; all you'd be able to see is the overall wave shape with no detail.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1ccbe56a6fed.png[/atsimg]

So yes, there have been HT's at the park before... but there weren't any at YSB on 1/25. And if there were, you wouldn't even be able to see them on a seismogram. The only way to see HT's is with higher resolution than those will ever have.

reply to post by PuterMan


Hmm, not sure that's what we are after PM. They describe this noise as "fiercely hot gas whooshing through the guts of a volcano." I thought it was magma alone that could cause HT's, and nowhere that I saw in that source did it say anything about that being harmonic tremor.

Yeah man, If you can come up with an audio file of a known HT, that's what I've been after.