Whats going on at yellowstone?

[edit on 14/1/09 by geogeek]

I'm watching the streaming web cam and I see a lot of very unconcerned looking bison.

Re: Snow melt. This keeps coming up and I just don't think we have enough info to make anything of the level of snow melt on the web cam. How long has it been since it snowed? Even if the air is very cold the steam/warm ground will melt the snow (normal for the Old Faithful area) and will melt more over time.

It seems to me this issue comes up here cyclically. More snow falls, it stops falling, then it melts, then people worry about snow melt. I mean, it couldbe an issue, but unless we are there with our own gauges, observing the locations in question, how much snow they got, how quickly it melted, and how this relates to historical trends at that location - I kinda think it's a big nothing.

I have to agree with that entirely.

The webcam operators are going to try to aim the camera at interesting things so people watching will have maximum entertainment. So bison, erupting geysers, and other thermal features will be mainly what they'll try to aim it at, I'd think.

So we tend to see areas with a lot of hydrothermal activity. The "fun" features of the area visible from the camera location.

There is nothing extraordinary about snow being melted away by the very hot water and steam coming from these features.

Seeing the bison acting normal and seeing lots of unconcerned tourists points to how normal everything must seem to the people/animals who are actually there.

The bison go to areas where there is little or no snowcover so they can find forage more easily. So we see the bare spots, I'd think.

It looks like someone wiped the camera off or it melted now because we're getting good, clear images again.

Here are some automated weather stations in the area of Yellowstone. Some are quite a distance away, but they're mostly all in or surrounding the park. You can check weather trends for various time periods on these.

I'd like to find a clickable map showing all of the automated weather stations in the area so it'd be easier to navigate through them.

Whoa! There's a nice eruption on the webcam right now. Beautiful! It looks like there's virtually no wind right now.

raws.wrh.noaa.gov...

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raws.wrh.noaa.gov...

raws.wrh.noaa.gov...

raws.wrh.noaa.gov...

raws.wrh.noaa.gov...

raws.wrh.noaa.gov...

raws.wrh.noaa.gov...

raws.wrh.noaa.gov...

reply to post by questioningall


I am also aware of the EQ clouds. I witnessed these formations 2 days before the 8-15-2007 8.0 EQ off the coast of Peru. I was standing outside and I said to my husband that those are the weirdest clouds I have ever seen. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture at the time because I was not aware then of their significance. It happened again, and I took a picture before the 7.2 EQ on 9-2-07 off the Santa Cruz islands. I know what I was seeing was truly EQ clouds, and I told my husband that there could be another another EQ since I saw those clouds, sure enough, the next day. I will post the photo later, I don't have my camera at work with me. I would love to see your photos so we can compare.


These are some more links to photos of EQ clouds
pinewooddesign.co.uk...
www.uisoftware.com...

[edit on 14-1-2009 by sickofitall2012]

hhhmmm RSOE showing Europe/Middle East/China M5.2..very active today?

hisz.rsoe.hu...

www.emsc-csem.org...

[edit on 1/14/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by JustMike



Thanks for that Mike. I had sort of worked out that they probably could not show everything. It was the ANSS description of holding 'global' earthquake data' that was confusing. I would take the statement to mean 'all', but obviously not.

reply to post by PuterMan


did he now??????

does anybody have that link?

Earthquake cloud predictions and latest EQs worldwide

earthquakecloudpredictions.com...

Originally posted by PuterMan
Hi Folks, I have just recieved this reply from USGS with regard to the downtime of LKWY.

.... SNIP .....

Now that's a rational explanation that fits the evidence. If you look at what DID come through on LKWY while it was having problems, it certainly does look the way one would expect a telemetry or other data link type failure to look.

The idea that they'd withhold data from just one station seems pointless because the surrounding stations would still tell people what they need to know.

When you're troubleshooting any system, the simplest, most logical answers are usually the most likely. You should always work your way from the most obvious to the most esoteric.

Sometimes, on this site, we see people jump to the most bizarre and unlikely explanations for things that seem trivial and easily explainable.

But then, I guess that's the fun of a site like this. We're encouraged to put forth the most baroque and twisted of explanations for the most mundane of events.

Sorry to be a spoil sport all of the time.

I found this site and this thread via some googling when I heard a story on the local NPR affiliate about the earthquake swarm at the end of last month and then couldn't find much about it elsewhere.

Don't stop posting the wild conspiracy theories. I love it. It's what makes this all so fun. But also don't feel bad if I tend to be a wet blanket when I've got something to say about particular theories. I've lived in Wyoming all my life and been to Yellowstone countless times.

A lot of what spooks people on here is just typical for that area. So I guess I don't tend to get worked up about most of it.

The earthquake swarm... that's interesting. It got my attention.

But clearly man-made noise on a single webicorder. I think I can recognize that.

Wind noise - that seems obvious to someone who lives with the wind around here all of the time.

Melting snow next to a geyser - Oh Lord! (Sorry for the sarcasm).

There ARE some good points being raised in this thread. And there is some unusual activity stirring under YSNP.

But in an effort to really decide if I should be concerned, I'm trying to remain rational and apply the same troubleshooting logic that I would to an electronics or programming problem that I might be having.

Sorry for the ramble, here, but am I the only one who thinks that one of the great failings in modern education is the fact that no schools seem to teach any classes in basic logic unless you're headed for a degree in philosophy?

Logic should be taught at the grade-school and junior-high levels.

People would be much better consumers, voters, and citizens in general if they had a tiny grounding in logic under their belts.

Sorry for the long, boring, rant.

reply to post by VX-7R


Well said Sir! Logic for All...Mr Spock would be proud of you, but, pride is Illogical

reply to post by VX-7R


Great VX-7R,
i'm with U .. its a real fun site .. but IMHO some of the posts are a little of there ... that being said, I'd better get back to work ... if i can pull myself away ... ???

OMG!!!

I have just recieved an email direct from the man himself, which was sent to me, my initial contact in USGS, and the person who responded to me. Certainly clears up a few questions.

All,

A few more relevant points.

LKWY is not in a borehole. It is at the surface. It is part of the "backbone system" of USGS seismic stations that cover the entire country. It runs off a satellite dish, in contrast with most of the other seismic stations at YNP.

There is a nearby borehole with a strainmeter. That is different.
The borehole instrumentation also goes down due to telemetry issues, power problems, etc. A nearby GPS receiver is also called LKWY. It is now maintained by UNAVCO, a non-profit company that is a contractor to NSF.

LKWY was fixed by a park staff member who went out and cleared snow and ice out of the satellite dish.

A UNAVCO engineer was just out fixing problems with the strainmeters. Getting someone from Boulder out to the equipment requires a lot of time and money. Weather has been horrible. All travel is by snow machine.

Equipment goes down and comes up all the time. The equipment is run by different groups such as UU, USGS Denver, USGS Menlo Park, NSF through the UNAVCO consortium, the USGS Water Resources group in Montana, and others. If we tried to provide a running commentary on each piece of instrument that is up or down, it would be a major task
for us and those enthusiastic citizens pasted to their web browsers
would probably not be any happier.

Basically, the UU has had no problem locating earthquakes throughout the past few weeks, even when instruments go up and down. As you've noticed, big earthquakes (> M2.5) are located instantly by an automatic routine. Small ones take a few days to make it into the catalog, especially when staffing is low during the holidays.


My two cents.

Jake Lowenstern, Scientist-in-Charge, YVO

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
reply to post by questioningall

 

I am also aware of the EQ clouds. I witnessed these formations 2 days before the 8-15-2007 8.0 EQ off the coast of Peru. I was standing outside and I said to my husband that those are the weirdest clouds I have ever seen. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture at the time because I was not aware then of their significance. It happened again, and I took a picture before the 7.2 EQ on 9-2-07 off the Santa Cruz islands. I know what I was seeing was truly EQ clouds, and I told my husband that there could be another another EQ since I saw those clouds, sure enough, the next day. I will post the photo later, I don't have my camera at work with me. I would love to see your photos so we can compare.


These are some more links to photos of EQ clouds
pinewooddesign.co.uk...
www.uisoftware.com...

[edit on 14-1-2009 by sickofitall2012]

Okay, I am inserting the pictures from the website you mentioned above right now. I will then put my videos on youtube and then put them in here in a later post. But also see the infared clouds from Monday of this week, that I got from weather.com. I found the clouds all had the same look as the earthquake clouds in these pics. You can see the look from the satellite even.










Now look at the satellite from Monday 1/12/09 - now the scientist who have studied earthquakes has said within 30 days of seeing these clouds quakes happen.

These look like your garden variety cirrus clouds to me. It's been very cold lately. We used to see these all the time in New England growing up, particularly when it was very cold out and there was snow on the ground. (And this was not even a remotely seismically active region.)

www.usatoday.com...

Edited to add:

I believe you may be confusing cirrus clouds with earthquake lights, which may also not be more significant than light shining through cirrus clouds and refracting.

en.wikipedia.org...

(Note the disclaimer at the top of that article.)

At any rate, cirrus clouds are a very common weather phenomenon, and I'm not surprised to see them parked over the arctic blast the midwest is getting.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by quakewatcher]

reply to post by VX-7R


If that is all "man made" and "wind" noise, why is it showing only now, not before in the records? I think that others have already discussed this, in detail...it is easy to compare records with past records and see that these theories of "wind" and other noise simply do not explain the trends. They just don't.

reply to post by Shirakawa


posted on 1/14/2009 @ 03:31

08:29:30 GMT @ TA.H17A +25 to -20 GEE
it's a "Roller"...E & N come in just a hair before Z
2 Pre's & 1 Post...
Another Micro @08:43:10...08:56:30....

posted on 1/14/2009 @ 04:19
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
reply to post by Hx3_1963
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, YLT has to reach at least the micrometers range on GEE (instead of nanometers), which didn't happen. If you check its webicorder page you'll see that last one was a very small earthquake.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 1/14/2009 @ 04:23

reply to post by Shirakawa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another now at 09:14:30 micro

Guess yer right little one's... I wasn't paying attention 66.67mv...been up to long staring at this screen sorry
===============================================
1.1 2009/01/14 07:35:48 44.677 -110.454 1.5 45 km ( 28 mi) SSE of Gardiner, MT

1.5 2009/01/14 06:49:53 44.727 -111.168 7.9 9 km ( 5 mi) NW of West Yellowstone, MT

1.8 2009/01/14 06:49:13 44.726 -111.165 6.9 8 km ( 5 mi) NW of West Yellowstone, MT

A little Bigger than we thought huh?

reply to post by quakewatcher


I looked at the photos in the link you provided, no the clouds are not the same. I am uploading 2 videos I took Monday to youtube right now. I will post them here, once they have been uploaded and are available.

The videos show waves.

okay I give up here is why your precious dish broke down due to "SNOW" due with it what you will and good luck to you....

go here:
quake.wr.usgs.gov...

and look at the base at this....

20090109 2009.0249 -14.8 -0.3 93.0 ppp 3.2 3.8 10.4 0.1245 YellowstoneContin.20090109.stacov.point-2009/01/13-01:01:53
20090110 2009.0276 -45.9 1559.9 95.6 rrr 3.2 3.7 10.4 0.1430 YellowstoneContin.20090110.stacov.point-2009/01/14-01:05:27
20090111 2009.0304 -18.7 -3.8 106.5 ppp 3.1 3.5 9.9 0.1031 YellowstoneContin.20090111.stacov.point-2009/01/14-01:25:12
20090112 2009.0331 -18.3 1.7 117.7 ppp 3.3 3.9 10.5 0.1011 YellowstoneContin.20090112.stacov.point-2009/01/14-01:47:57
20090113 2009.0359 -19.9 1.6 115.6 ppp 3.1 3.6 9.9 0.0963 YellowstoneContin.20090113.stacov.point-2009/01/14-02:24:26


Look at the 20090109 then look at the 20090110 then look at 20090111

you have your answer as to what is happening. Hint: its not the water...... Im out peace

Originally posted by questioningall
reply to post by quakewatcher

 

I looked at the photos in the link you provided, no the clouds are not the same. I am uploading 2 videos I took Monday to youtube right now. I will post them here, once they have been uploaded and are available.

The videos show waves.

There's a huge variety in how these look.

Here, look to your heart's content:

images.google.com...

Another communication from the man himself!

Subject: Re: EHP Website Email - Other - downloadable lists

David,
You are most welcome. We are always happy to answer questions from the public. I do look at the blogs on occasion and am struck how so many people would prefer to speculate wildly and figure it out by themselves, rather than by simply asking us and finding out the answer. We cannot take the time to explain every wiggle on a hydrograph or webicorder, but we could help people figure out snowmobile and wind noise compared with harmonic tremor!

And we are all scientists trained to do science. This is pretty much the ideal job for most volcanologists because we get to do what we love. We don't take any courses in "government secrecy protocols."

Actually, I'd be curious if they are offered:-). Nobody else in the government tells us what to do. We are the same folks who monitor the volcanoes in Hawaii, Alaska and the Cascades, and if we acted any differently for Yellowstone we'd lose our credibility everywhere else.

Jake Lowenstern, USGS

I responded to this:

Hi Jake,

Yes you are right you would lose your credibility. Actually, apart from the obvious 'nuts' on the site, most of the guys and gals on this particular thread are getting very technical with the seismograph recordings and beginning to recognise more and more.

I would not want to take up your valuable time unnecessarily, but an explanation of the snowmobile and wind noise signals, and how to recognise them, would I am sure be much appreciated, and would lead to less wild speculation (although wild speculation on a conspiracy site has to be expected and can be quite fun as long as no one takes it seriously).

Perhaps, if someone has time, a web page explaining the difference may be the answer?

Thanking you once again

Best regards
David

reply to post by xoxo stacie

So yer saying deformation rose that fast? 93 to 117.7 ?