Pope attacks blurring of gender

Originally posted by nuclearman
I would like to remind you all that the Catholic Church does not condem homosexuality as a sin. As far as I know, gays can live together, love each other in a romantic way, and probably even kiss and things of that nature and still be in good standing with the church. It is the fornication that the Church is against. This goes for both gay and straight.

Are you catholic?
Just asking

If so what's your opinion on the Vatican?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Yes I am Catholic and I was about to post the official teaching of the Catholic Church in regards to homosexuality:

Excerpted from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

2358 "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepw45y tted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. "

What do I think of the Vatican in regards to what?

Originally posted by nuclearman
2358 "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepw45y tted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. "

And the only reason it is a "trial" is because religious zealots are inclined to force their opinions and doctrine on me and my life.
And because the masses have such deep seated homophobia due to religious doctrine, they actually think it is acceptable to limit the freedoms and rights of homosexual people by a public vote.

It would be good to see the HEAD OF THE CHURCH actually live by their own teachings, instead of making blanket statements that will give thousands of religious crazies the permission they need to look down upon and bully gay people.

And finally, being gay IS NOT A "CONDITION".

If anything, I would say the act of blindly following and trusting in an invisible man who issues orders and controls unto all Humanity is a great deal more of a "condition" than being gay.

reply to post by detachedindividual


I apologize for having offended you. I just wanted to clarify my religion's official standing on the matter of homosexuality. How is being gay not a condition if you don't mind me asking?

reply to post by nuclearman


All that you posted means nothing.
Your doctrine has been hijacked
hijacked by pedophiles and child abusers and rapists and all the above
your leaders are the most corrupt dirty people on the planet

im' sorry
but this is real, it's not the media making muslims look bad or something
this is reality

the vatican, holy moly, i wont even start with them

non tax paying rich churches whoaa
600MILLION DOLLARS to make a family shut up about child abuse
let's not even talk about child abuse
where the hell did a church get 600MILLION DOLLARS?

that justs makes people who donate suckers

seriously, if catholism means anything then you should all gang up on your churches and cleanse these fake institutions

I just read the book, "Prayers For Bobby" where a son was tormented by his religious mother for four years to pray harder to not be gay. He chronicles in his journal that perhaps God wished him to be an idiot and a fool to society and perhaps God mocked his prayers. Later on he did a backflip from an overpass realizing God would not heal him.

Story of Bobby Griffith

I think many gay people know a Bobby Griffith. Mine was an ex schoolmate named Joe. He did as his parents instructed, married and had a child because he wished to escape being gay. He hung himself with a belt in a closet at 21 years old and left a note that he had been praying for relief from God but, never received it. He apologized to his wife (in the letter) that he didn't have the strength to fight off being gay and it was best that he end it like this.

I was raised in the same church as him and at 35 I still see a psychiatrist because, I went through the same same stuff about self hate and seeking a change from a God that didn't listen/wasn't there, feelings of suicide. The church I went to praised gays being killed. They even claimed God would pardon the killers and that they were doing his work. I remember hearing a very fire and brimstone sermon as a child about homosexuals. I went home and sat down and looked that up and my thoughts were, "No, that is what I am!" Praying doesn't help, my own prayers were nothing, "God if you can't make me straight at least make me a woman so these feelings will be normal." I didn't want to be a woman, but felt I needed some normalcy.

Our own Pastor came over and had a discussion with my parents about giving me an exorcism because it was a "sex demon" that had inhabited my body and they attempted to have me believe that. I went to a Christian School and I will say straight up there was not a day from age 13-17 that I wasn't verbally assaulted, kicked, and even gang beaten. The School's response at the time was that it was perfectly acceptable as to scare the demons out and make me repent.

I flat out told my parents I would quit school and move away on my own if they didn't allow me to go somewhere else. I can name four more that went through the same experience and some worse with being sent to an ex-gay type program where they were beaten, sexually assaulted, and abused. I am lucky that my parents did finally see the light and accepted me as is, some families never do. I finally walked away from organized religion and I know that I never will return to it.











[edit on 24/12/2008 by toochaos4u]

[edit on 24/12/2008 by toochaos4u]

Originally posted by toochaos4u
He hung himself with a belt in a closet at 21 years old and left a note that he had been praying for relief from God but, never received it. He apologized to his wife (in the letter) that he didn't have the strength to fight off being gay and it was best that he end it like this.

I knew people who did similar things for various reasons. One was retarded and was made fun of till he hung himself in his best suit in a tree.
My grandmother killed herself with a shotgun.
I, myself used to try different suicides, until I got saved.

The church I went to praised gays being killed. They even claimed God would pardon the killers and that they were doing his work.

What crazy church was that???
The only churches I've heard of like this are westboro or some KKK church.
I've been to churches all over North Georgia and NEVER seen anything like that!

The School's response at the time was that it was perfectly acceptable as to scare the demons out and make me repent.

Again, what kind of crazy church was this?

being sent to an ex-gay type program where they were beaten, sexually assaulted, and abused.

What kind of crazy program was that????

reply to post by Clearskies


I am sorry to hear about your Grandmother and the retarded guy. It is inexcusable to harm any others at least to me. The psychological torture was much worse than getting in fights. I went through the whole "saved" thing many years ago and I suppose it did not take. I now feel that I don't need organized religion in any way.


What kind of church? Independent Baptist. They were much like Westboro light with a little Jesus Camp thrown in. They still exist. I've discussed this before, they considered Southern Baptists as weak and watered down.

What kind of program was this? This was much like Westboro (located in Gastonia NC then). When one felt that they exhibited gay feelings they were told to hit or cut themselves as reminder to be straight and avoid sin. Some of the adults running the program sexually abused the young boys coming into the program because they were easy prey and of course they put the blame on the boys for tempting them so they (the boys) should be punished by a beating afterward.


Out of the small church of 150

One hangs himself
One is a drug addict
Three have some extreme psychological counseling. I still see a psychiatrist due to this time.
One never sought help, he is a recluse (he is the one sent to the ex-gay program.) He is very much still gay but, has little trust for people. Probably needs help, but refuses it.


[edit on 24/12/2008 by toochaos4u]

I think the reason they feel it is of dire importance is because they erroneously believe that "gay" or "transsexual" is contagious.

They think it's like aids or something where you can catch "gay"

To be honest I don't think they much care other than the fact it's a rallying point for people of faith.

The politics behind the Vatican are mysterious and spooky to say the least, and those trying to infiltrate it for their own goals and aspirations.

Just make sure you don't catch "gay" or "transsexual" this Christmas holidays. /sarcasm

Anyone see the movie 300?

The old elder people are Ephors.

Anyone see the parallels between them and our modern religious leaders?

"Leonidas visits an oracle, an entranced young woman who's "tended to" (more on that below) by horribly disfigured men called Ephors. While there, Leonidas is told, "Trust the gods. Your blasphemies have cost us enough already." The king dismisses the Ephors as "diseased old mystics." "

www.pluggedinonline.com...

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Jezus]

Nostradamus mentioned in his time that a falling out of christianity due to our pope would take place.



This is our last pope.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


Its like when I went to highschool. Where I am is very small, Kindergarden-8th is all in one building. But the highschool is more then 30miles away. And so first time there the people who didn't go too school with me from before... Avoided me like the plague. And why? I have Albinism. They even had a PTA meeting about keeping me out so their kids wouldn't get it. After getting doctors and lawyers involved I was allowed too stay. Damn, if they knew I was bisexual they probably would have just dragged me too death behind a school bus.

OK, the pope says that...so...

Why is this even significant?

How is the pope different from any other demented 80-year-old man?

reply to post by mandrake


He has a billion followers that believe he is the voice of God. If the Pope says 2+2=5 the followers change the math. The Pope is infallible(spelling?) and they believe he talks too God.

Originally posted by GamerGal
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

 

Its like when I went to highschool. Where I am is very small, Kindergarden-8th is all in one building. But the highschool is more then 30miles away. And so first time there the people who didn't go too school with me from before... Avoided me like the plague. And why? I have Albinism. They even had a PTA meeting about keeping me out so their kids wouldn't get it. After getting doctors and lawyers involved I was allowed too stay. Damn, if they knew I was bisexual they probably would have just dragged me too death behind a school bus.

People can be so cruel... and irrational .. it boggles the mind, don't worry I think you're beautiful! and from what it seems you have VERY colorful hair!

This pope is .. well . .weird and I don't like him much regardless of being a nazi .. he just looks evil..

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


People forget he was a NAZI. NAZI's were... intolerable of gays but had plenty of pedophiles in the group. Hmm, why does that sound familiar? *Googles Pedophile Priests* oh that's why it's the exact same thing under a different name! One was called Hitler, one the Pope. One group was called NAZIs this group called the Catholic Church.

To all the geniuses worried the world is about to turn gay -

Are you worried that you will turn gay? If not it proves that humankind will continue. We can all relax.

If you are worried, you probably should go have sex with a man. Then you can relax.

In essence: What are those who worry ACTUALLY worried about. Maybe they hope that if the whole world if fighting back their rampant gay tendancies then it makes their struggle ok?

I'm gay and the last thing I want is for everyone to also be as well. I'm glad that there are others to worry about the future of the human race while I blow my disposable income on gay hookers and coc aine.

Originally posted by LovingSoul
Okay, now I'm really going to throw the cat among the pigeons....
I agree 100% that "an unmarried man in a dress" has no room to complain about the blurring of the genders and I also agree (someone close to me was a victim) that too many boys were very badly abused at the hands of catholic priests HOWEVER I do also believe that homosexuality (male and female) will be the downfall of humankind. When men no longer procreate with women and women no longer procreate with men - how will the human race continue?
Enough said.

"When men no longer procreate with women and women no longer procreate with men - how will the human race continue?".........................
ya, I see that coming, it's right around the corner...all of a sudden those guys out there who just can't help but force themselves on women they don't even know are gonna decide that women are just not worth the effort and start raping the men...right!!
first point....the pollution that we are dumping all over the place seems to be causing fish, alligators, and some birds to umm....kind of lose their maleness, kind of nest with the female counterparts, heck, it's causing male fish to produce eggs!! what kind of effect might this be having on the human males? is it really beyond belief that it might be causing a tadbit of homosexual activity in them?
and if it were, then well....most of the pollutant that are doing this are doing so because the are mimicing human hormones. so, well....could it be possible that what is going on is really quite natural? kind of like a natural remedy to overpopulation? the village becomes overpopulated. the people in the village pee their hormones out into the river, the people then drink the water from the river, eat the fish in the river, and alas, some of the people become a tad bit confused, and low and behold.......homosexuality rises in the village? the birth rate decreases somewhat, the village population declines and all is well and happy with the world?

I'm sorry, but in a world that is overpopulated, where underaged girls are popping out babies for the status symbol they bring.......I think we have a far way to go before we see homosexuality killing off the human population. lol...our pollution will more than likely kill us off first.

and really, I read something else in the pope's remarks......ya, it might have touched on the issue of homosexuality, but what I read was that he was saying that we should all stay within their gender roles.....period! women should be home having kids, raising kids, keeping the house, blah, blah...while the men are out there doing the manly stuff, like working from sunup to sundown earning a living to support them.........
which, to be frank, the fact that we are failing so miserably at trying to balance the family roles out into a more equally is endangering the human population! so, well.....I guess he thinks that we should go backwards, since well....looking foreward, it seems, all we see is chaos.

Originally posted by nuclearman
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

I apologize for having offended you. I just wanted to clarify my religion's official standing on the matter of homosexuality. How is being gay not a condition if you don't mind me asking?

You haven't offended me, the Pope has.
I wasn't attacking your post for stating what you see as the facts, I was merely offended at the assumptions made within the statement.

The word "condition", in this case and context, is clearly intended to make homosexuality seem like a disease or disorder.

Homosexuality is neither. It exists throughout nature.

Sexual desire is a natural part of every Human. Sexuality is diverse and covers a vast spectrum, Humans have simply placed several labels along this spectrum in an effort to classify people. The basic three of Gay, Straight and Bi are not all there is, and I would even say that only a minority of people can truly be classified into any of these without question.

Until the Pope can provide us with an adequate explanation of the role of hermaphrodites (created by God, not a lifestyle choice) in this divine clear cut gender dichotomy he claims is god's plan, his words ring hollow and foolish.