Pope attacks blurring of gender

Originally posted by johnsky
The percentage of homosexuals only grows because they finally feel safe enough to let people know they're gay. People don't just sign up and convert, they just are.

Okay, so are you saying you are one of those people who believe gays were born gay? Despite there having no evidence of this whatsoever?

Originally posted by johnsky
There are gays, who have always been gay, always will be gay.
Then there's bi-sexuals, who Christians all too often confuse with gays, problem being, THEY are the ones who can go back and forth between straight and gay... the gays don't have this option..

this is a non-argument

Originally posted by johnsky
Remember that, gays can't convert. They always were, and always will be gay, and no, their ratio is not increasing, they're just finally safe enough to let you know they're gay... without you crucifying them and lighting them on fire.

no no, the number of gays are most definately increasing
did you hear that song "i kissed a girl and i liked it" sung by a girl?
there are more and more and more subjective media
people are being more open minded to trying things
there weren't a gay culture once upon a time
there is now

Originally posted by johnsky
You won't have to worry about "Test tube babies" because HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A DISEASE.

However... Christianity can be thought of as a neurological disease.
... and I think treatment is way past due, unfortunately it's spread too far for containment and eradication.

what does homosexuality not being a disease have to do with not having test tube babies??????

btw, christianity is irrelevant.

I am pro-choice, I look at people as individuals as hard as it may seem based on my posts in this thread.

However pro-choice has nothing to do with abortion and nothing to do with certain aspects of homosexuailty, like a society of test tube babies and gay couples being allowed to adopt. These are my concerns.

I think there will only be 1 gender one day, and many alien races are bound to be that way.

Russia said it was a problem a while back, with falling birth rates.

what about the supposed female pope hundreds of years ago? talk about gender blurring. the catholic church is only good for its (old) art and architecture. the pope should just stay in his room all day saying hail mary's for his nazi past. pfft

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Okay, so are you saying you are one of those people who believe gays were born gay? Despite there having no evidence of this whatsoever?

TIME MAGAZINE: ARE GAY MEN BORN THAT WAY?


Wait for it...


... keep waiting...


EPIC FAIL!


Oh, and a 1991 edition, you've had 17 years to catch up... I almost feel sorry for you.

did you hear that song "i kissed a girl and i liked it" sung by a girl?
there are more and more and more subjective media
people are being more open minded to trying things
there weren't a gay culture once upon a time
there is now

Yes, I've heard the song, terribly composed...
So, a song and a dance is enough to convince you, but scientific data just eludes you doesn't it?

Have you studied history?
I should like to return you to Greek and Roman times, when much of the Greek army was composed of Homosexuals, chosen because they could be trusted to keep each other safe, mostly because of how they felt for each other.

Ever read Shakespeare?
Gay references are very common to find.

In fact, I can probably find reference to homosexuality in just about every decade you want...
So, I would like to know, at what point in history are you declaring there was no gay culture?

btw, christianity is irrelevant.

Ahh... something we agree on.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by johnsky]

Originally posted by johnsky

Time Magazine: Are Gay Men Born That Way?

Just to let you know, in case you didn't realize it yourself...
EPIC FAIL!

... I almost feel sorry for you.

Ummmm... Did you even read that article?
Or did you just skim through it and focused on the subject headline?

There is no proof as stated, can you find PROOF?

Originally posted by johnsky
Yes, I've heard the song, terribly composed...
So, a song and a dance is enough to convince you, but scientific data just eludes you doesn't it?

Seriously, no offense but is this your first time in a debate?

I gave an example and you jump to the conclusion that this is the only example that convinced me of my opinions???? Are you serious?

Originally posted by johnsky
Have you studied history?
I should like to return you to Greek and Roman times, when much of the Greek army was composed of Homosexuals, chosen because they could be trusted to keep each other safe, mostly because of how they felt for each other.

Ever read Shakespeare?
Gay references are very common to find.

In fact, I can probably find reference to homosexuality in just about every decade you want...
So, I would like to know, at what point in history are you declaring there was no gay culture?

[edit on 23-12-2008 by johnsky]

I assume you understand what the word culture means.
All that you have pointed out is throughout history there were gays, nowhere have you mentioned 'culture'.

You need to read some books on debating my friend.

Silly Catholic leader...

Catholics rather do bring the rest of us Christians down with them, especially when the 'head of Christianity' is a former Nazi. If it comes from his mouth it can probably be ignored, Nazis always had a thing against homosexuals.

Ernst Rhoms (Spelling? In fact it's probably the wrong name all together... leader of the SA killed after the night of the long knives) as well as many other head Nazis had to keep their homosexuality a secret or face the consequences...

reply to post by melatonin


First, your avatar is great and I love it! I never do stuff in public with my g/f but that's because I don't do stuff in public, not with my b/f either. Second, NO ONE IS 100% straight or gay! At least, that's my belief. Even if its just a guy going "Man I wished I looked like him" or a girl admiring another girls breasts. Or it is a gay guy admiring a woman's hair wishing he had it. It is a guy admiring a man's look, a woman admiring a bust, a gay guy admiring a woman's hair. Third, as long as they protect pedophiles they have NO ROOM too say some one is a sinner or not. As long as they go "You rape little boys and got caught? Well then let's move you to another place to rape more little boys" they need too lose all power, money, and followers.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Ummmm... Did you even read that article?
Or did you just skim through it and focused on the subject headline?

Yes, I did read it, clearly you didn't... here, let me help you, you can read it letter by letter if you like.

After careful examination of the brain samples, he found that the INAH-3 areas of most of the women and homosexual men were about the same size. In straight men this region was on average twice as large -- or about the size of a grain of sand.

There you go.

Care to dig your hole even deeper?

I guarantee you I and the other readers are loving this.

As I stated, that was discovered 17 Years Ago
... you've got 17 years of reading to catch up on.

And no, your bible doesn't count as scientific reading.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by johnsky]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
homosexuality is not natural, if something is right or wrong you can judge but imagining the extreme version of that truth.

Yep it did'nt take long atall for the "Its Not Natural" argument to come up and im not really surprised it has to be honest and it just annoys me soo much still because we arent really in a position to comment on what natural

think about it everytime you step onto an aeroplane because flying isnt natural is it or when ever we go out for a meal the majority of our food isnt natural anymore is it

so please dont give me "Its Not Natural"

It's absolutely revealing of social constructs that we see institutions creating furor over how a person chooses to express their emotions and sexuality.

It's as if their behavior somehow magically creates a deficit in morality for mankind! Yet they don't devote anytime to correcting those that are 'born' to be selfish materialistic pigs. Or murdering elitists. Or raging extremists.

Priorities people. If a person chooses this avenue of self expression thus removing themselves from the gene pool (in theory anyway) so be it. Unless you are willing to be a fascist enforcer of institutional doctrines, leave it alone.

If you are willing to be the kind of person who focuses their energy on controlling the behavior of strangers, then be prepared to fail. Humans can't be controlled. THAT IS THE POINT OF BEING HUMAN - FREEDOM TO ACCEPT OR REJECT ANYTHING - EVEN IF IT SEEMS SELF-DESTRUCTIVE.

Originally posted by johnsky
of the brain samples, he found that the INAH-3 areas of most of the women and homosexual men were about the same size. In straight men this region was on average twice as large -- or about the size of a grain of sand.

This is what is called a theory
INAH-3 is known as the "supposed" gay gene
nothing is conclusive

Read this
www.nerve.com...

It is too early to say anything about INAH-3

You will find studies supporting your statement IN THEORY and some supporing the idea that INAH-3 is irrelevant, other saying that it's too early and so on and so forth.

Did you just read one article and thought it was the end of the matter?

and LOL at my Bible
ME, the one who said thousands of times on ATS that Jesus never existed lol
ME? haha

reply to post by Anti - Government


Thats a good point...what the hel is natural anymore?

In a completely natural world I could not type this, I would never have seen your argument, I would not even know who you are, I would have died lasy year...probably long before.

Our race seems to despise anything natural and destroy it to put in something not natural... so if you think homosexuals are wrong because it is not natural get out of your house and sit in a field for the rest of your days.


As a side note I do think homosexuality is entirely natural, this just argues homophobes from both sides..

Originally posted by Anti - Government
think about it everytime you step onto an aeroplane because flying isnt natural is it or when ever we go out for a meal the majority of our food isnt natural anymore is it

so please dont give me "Its Not Natural"

Are you serious?
a plane?
comparing a machine flying to humans and their social behavior?

wow

food?

lol

reply to post by Anti - Government


Wow!

Who knew that us homosexuals have the power to ruin mankind,and with the most evil and destructive weapons ever known;RELATIONSHIPS and CONSENSUAL SEX!

Flee! Scurry! Run to the hills!

Better still,Burn them at the stake and then run to the hills!

Coz God knows that without homosexuality the world would be a much better place.There would be no abortion,no casual sex,no adultery,no divorce,no war,no famine,no disease,no corruption etc etc etc.


[edit on 23-12-2008 by DantesLost]

I don't get the false dichotomy between genetics and environment. Like much of human behaviour, it will very likely be an amalgam of both. And that's what studies are suggesting:

Arch Sex Behav. 2008 Jun 7. [Epub ahead of print] Links

Genetic and Environmental Effects on Same-sex Sexual Behavior: A Population Study of Twins in Sweden.

Långström N, Rahman Q, Carlström E, Lichtenstein P.
Centre for Violence Prevention, Karolinska Institutet, P.O. Box 23000, 104 35, Stockholm, Sweden, [email protected].

There is still uncertainty about the relative importance of genes and environments on human sexual orientation. One reason is that previous studies employed self-selected, opportunistic, or small population-based samples. We used data from a truly population-based 2005-2006 survey of all adult twins (20-47 years) in Sweden to conduct the largest twin study of same-sex sexual behavior attempted so far. We performed biometric modeling with data on any and total number of lifetime same-sex sexual partners, respectively. The analyses were conducted separately by sex. Twin resemblance was moderate for the 3,826 studied monozygotic and dizygotic same-sex twin pairs. Biometric modeling revealed that, in men, genetic effects explained .34-.39 of the variance, the shared environment .00, and the individual-specific environment .61-.66 of the variance. Corresponding estimates among women were .18-.19 for genetic factors, .16-.17 for shared environmental, and 64-.66 for unique environmental factors. Although wide confidence intervals suggest cautious interpretation, the results are consistent with moderate, primarily genetic, familial effects, and moderate to large effects of the nonshared environment (social and biological) on same-sex sexual behavior.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Probably a bit of both. The fact it is so widespread in other species also suggests it is not 'unnatural'. Bonobos are mad for a bit of boy-on-boy and girl-on-girl action.

reply to post by GamerGal


Cheers.

Happy festivus!



[edit on 23-12-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I think you have sadly missed the point entirely here tha fact is you said that Homosexuality is not natural when thats just a silly comment when our daily lives are with unnatural stuff like for examlpe flying in a plane or the foods that we eat so please try to understand a bit better before you post

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

This is what is called a theory
INAH-3 is known as the "supposed" gay gene
nothing is conclusive

Did you seriously just pull the theory card, and "Nothing can be solidly proven?"

If that's the case, then why should I even listen to you? Clearly anything you have to say can't be conclusive, and the argument becomes moot.


Meh...
And yes, I referred to your bible... mostly because the doctrine you subscribe to is most commonly found in Christianity.

If you aren't religious, then I apologize for insulting you by calling you Christian.

However, that brings up yet another problem... that means that you voluntarily chose to adhere to fascist doctrine.

And THAT sickens me even more.


Back to the concept of theories. Theories is all we have to go on.
We still have the theory of gravity... you can chose to test it if you like, the higher the cliff the better...
... but the results will all be the same. A long drop and a quick stop.

I guess, if it gives you condolence... you can repeat to yourself "Gays only exist in theory", and hope they go away.

... but that's not going to happen. You're stuck with them.
... FOREVER.

I thought I might just rub that in once more... I just love making homophobes squirm.

You can't do anything about it. They're here, they've always been here, they will always be here, they exist in nature, they exist everywhere.
Odds dictate you have one living on your block.
Odds dictate one of your close friends, and even perhaps a relative is gay.
... am I making your skin crawl yet?...
And odds are, if it disturbs you, it's because there's something about yourself you can't come to terms with.

Whether you like it or not. heh.


And I get the feeling you're only this passionate about it, because you're hiding something from yourself.



How about a big kiss? Will that make you feel better?


See... I'm straight and I have no problems with it.
Ask yourself, if you're straight, and know it 100%... then why can't you bring yourself to accept them?
Do you have trouble with the notion of two men making out?
Do you have to shudder to get the thought out of your head?

It's because you don't know 100%.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by johnsky]

[edit on 23-12-2008 by johnsky]

reply to post by LovingSoul

When men no longer procreate with women and women no longer procreate with men - how will the human race continue?

As long as both sexes exist there will be procreation.To suggest otherwise is idiotic.And also bear in mind that gay men and women who have children together do not always have a child who is gay,therefore heterosexuality will also continue.

Originally posted by LovingSoul When men no longer procreate with women and women no longer procreate with men - how will the human race continue?
Enough said.

"They will be like the 'angels of heaven', neither marrying or being given in marriage."
Technology is a wonderful thing, no?

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by johnsky
However, that brings up yet another problem... that means that you voluntarily chose to adhere to fascist doctrine.

Fascist?
Listen I have a friend who lives that lifestyle
and I still drink beer with him

If he heard your theory about INAH-3 he'd think you think that Homosexuals are mutants.

Originally posted by johnsky

I guess, if it gives you condolence... you can repeat to yourself "Gays only exist in theory", and hope they go away.

... but that's not going to happen. You're stuck with them.
... FOREVER.
.

You have very much misunderstood me
you seem to think I hate people who chose that lifestyle

That is not what my posts suggested at all