If man kind is to survive, religion must end

Originally posted by robwerden

Id like to say, this is something that intrigues me. Being a firm believer that we are not alone in the Universe, I often wonder if the stories that are normally associated with a supernatural being are in fact real accounts of an alien species.

So your are in fact replacing one set of gods with another. Aliens we have no proof of, but you believe may exist! to replace a GOD we have no proof of but others believe exist!

In my mind, this is something I can get behind. I have seen many references in history to aliens visiting us and being documented on everything from cave drawings to famous works of art.

Yes, its called alternative archeology. Its like a new religion. In fact the belief in aliens is at the moment religious in nearly all its contexts. It relies mostly on personal testimonies, eye witness accounts. And updating historical art, archeological history with a new paradigm that see Aliens as an inspiration. Aliens that become feasible via science and technology. Its a comfortable middle ground between older more traditional metaphysical and supernatural beings and beings that can be accepted on scientific and technological basis(insert your aliens here). Check out these Artworks. ART, Aliens and UFO's

I can even imagine that there could have been an alien who's name is actually one of the names given as the name of god.

Its ok for you to imagine alien beings and it not Ok for people ti imagine a god or superior being.

And as a result of the higher technological level they came to earth with, they were seen as supernatural because people could not grasp the science. Mistaken identity seems more likely than this other stuff.

Nice theory. Yes we mistakenly failed to identify alien beings who left no technology behind for us to not make a mistake in proving that they were aliens. Cool. I see that now.

I hope one day they come back with videos of them performing the so called miracles through out our history to show it was them all along.

Is that like praying. For the return of the ones that came before. Like Jesus, or someone. LOL. ABOLISH RELIGION. Yeah, I can see technologically advanced beings making videos.

Dude, if they do come back, and meet you first, I fear none of us may survive.

i think institutionalized religion is similar to any criminal organization. it should not be permitted. however spirituality and finding your own way to god or whatever higher power you'd like to believe in should be always encouraged. there is not a single way to god or absolute wisdom. every one of us has a different path for their different personality. just as we are unique so is that spiritual path unique and should not imposed onto others.

obviously some basic principles of civilized society should be enforced. but you can't argue that our society is judeo-christian just because it obeys the 10 commandments and other biblical principles. most of those principles are common sense (don't beat up your parents, respect your neighbor, respect others' property, don't kill without a valid reason, etc). the bible has gathered them over many years - why discard them altogether? every other religion contains most of those principles anyway.

reply to post by DarkSecret

however spirituality and finding your own way to god or whatever higher power you'd like to believe in should be always encouraged. there is not a single way to god or absolute wisdom. every one of us has a different path for their different personality. just as we are unique so is that spiritual path unique and should not imposed onto others.

So true, but it is hard to influence someone who has been taught that one needs a middleman to have a relationship with God. It is so indoctrinated!

reply to post by rattan1

There are no religions that promote hatred or division.
I strongly disagree. Jews religion promote hate and violence against non-jews(gentile). You have to submit to a God - said Muslim religion and the most of all - christian religion allow any form of violence to any person as long as you say that you love Jesus. Are those a example of a interpretation of a religion or it is a religion itself. Planet Earth it is a violent planet by itself. "Eat or be eaten" it is the motto. Kill or be killed. ID or Intelligence Design has been approved by most of the people, but I will ask of - what kind of sick of a mind life form will design so violent planet. I am sure that God did not create this planet- nor the occupants. It is the religion what make a humans so violent or it is just excuse for being a violent by a nature.
Please, do not blame a God for this place, because as a supreme being -God it is intelligent and will never design this place.
Peace.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
So true, but it is hard to influence someone who has been taught that one needs a middleman to have a relationship with God. It is so indoctrinated!

what do you expect in a world where priests of institutionalized religion find all sorts of ways to fish the money out of people's pockets? institutionalized religion is all about controlling the masses. on the other hand a truly free religion would be none at all. "churches" would look more like the ancient gathering places of Plato & co where they were trying to figure the meaning of life by debating ideas about earthly and heavenly things. or just places where you'd be able to meditate in silence, cry, pray, rejoice.

religion as it is today should be abolished. children should not be forced by parents to go to church just as it's illegal to hurt them. the only mandatory teaching should be including the general moral standards of the society some which i quoted earlier. you should be allowed and incouraged to challenge the ideas of others in a civilized way. the child would then have their own options to either search for a spiritual path or never think about spirituality and instead pursue their own lifestyle.

I have just registered here, I hope the promise of an open point of view is not one that is exaggerated, so please do not attempt to get all keyboard rage on me.

I think this is a tough one. Firstly I see your point, and I used to be an advocate of the same idea. However, as a philosopher would say- To reject an idea you must first understand the premise.

Religion is seen by the informed modern world as a prehistoric way of explaining the unknown, or in the AD era, a means of controlling the populace.

The faithful read the bible expecting enlightening words of a higher power, but instead find cryptic stories with moral underlinings. The evil of religion is not in it's existence but how humankind chooses to use it.

Historically those who are unscrupulous and hungry for power will find their means to attain it, and traditionally religion has been their purview.

But with all that is happening currently I have sensed that religion may be our only salvation. Although having anything that divides us is not beneficial. It is assumed that all religions are different, when they are just (like string theory) expressions of the same thing. We are all one consciousness inside of God (the Universe), and religions are attempts to explain that which we cannot measure or quantify. The problem arises when (unlike science), the doctrine does not learn as the spirit does, leaving archeic ideas in the minds of informed people.

As a spiritualist (and a Biochemist @ Manchester University, so not some so called crackpot, ok), I have followed the events of the past 10 years with scrutiny. I firmly believe that all of this was planned, and the world is being prepared for something, but although my meditations do not enlighten me to the events of the future, they do give me a sense that the population is being decieved. The messages of each major religion are the same ( [snip] the Jihadist's, I have a Muslim friend sat beside me right now who would agree), Peace, love and acceptance. No-where in any text is killing advocated unless ordered by God, and no war has been fought with logical reason. Evil is the work of man, and religions are methods to live, not end the lives of others, and certainly not rigid doctrines to be followed and twisted to suit human greed, which if you truly think about is IS the root of all evil.

Look at Buddhism- Greed is the enemy of enlightenment, although I do still value material possessions, I do so because of the feeling they give, not their existence, or the monetary value, and do not seek money in any of my endeavors as I believe VERY strongly that it is the quest for personal wealth that is truly evil, and yes in some MANY cases religion has been utilised to that end.

But in closing I would like to end this ramble by saying that whatever you despise, or whatever you denounce- Remember that the result of any action is the work of man, not the information he had to his hand.. Do you blame Einstein for the atomic bomb? He (among others) provided the means, did he have the motive? No. That is simply put but apt.

Evil is the work of man, whatever reason or justification, Satan (the idea of) is a metaphor for evil we are all capable of, and religion is no more at fault than the physicist who's work becomes the most destructive force known to man.

I am religious of a sort.. I was a confirmed Christian, then at the age of 14 noticed something was wrong with the world. My Ju-Jitsu instructor advised me to join meditation classes and I have learned much, and understand things in a way I never though possible.

I defend my otherwise abstract beliefs against sometimes fierce criticism, usually from kids who claim to believe in science and technology, and the advancement of mankind, however these people are not scientists (I am), I find among those who truly are informed, an agreement we know very little, and there is much room for interpretation even among the "facts" in the annals of science.

"walk with wonder"- UTM



removed profanity

please read 'Vulgarity and The Automatic ATS Censors'

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 26/12/08 by masqua]

reply to post by DarkSecret

like the ancient gathering places of Plato & co where they were trying to figure the meaning of life by debating ideas about earthly and heavenly things. or just places where you'd be able to meditate in silence, cry, pray, rejoice.

Exactly, like in coffee houses, the round table discussions where you can take what you want and leave what you don't. Much more familial and enterprising.

reply to post by UpontheMountain24

I have just registered here, I hope the promise of an open point of view is not one that is exaggerated, so please do not attempt to get all keyboard rage on me.

I think this is a tough one. Firstly I see your point, and I used to be an advocate of the same idea. However, as a philosopher would say- To reject an idea you must first understand the premise.

Welcome!

You will receive all of the above and possible praise also. It is an aggressive sight but one well worth participating in.

There is indeed a lot to the philosophical phrase you mentioned. It's called having contempt prior to investigation or the converse; research before making a contemptuous judgment.

It seems to be the human way to fall into familiar patterns, even if they no longer work for them!

While I find that overly structured or organized religion can cause a lot of problems... I believe spirituality is essential for humanity's survival. A more personal and selfless faith, free of restrictive dogma and prejudices, can greatly benefit our species. It is in our programing to seek that which is greater than us. Honestly, though... Without religion, human nature will crave something to take it's place. I do not believe there are many people who can really be called Atheists in the truest sense of the word. Instead of religion, people will (and do) become dangerously nationalistic, turn science into a religion, and so forth. The various functions which religion serve are simply derived from other sources which may be as dangerous, or more so, than many religions. Imagine hardcore religious Darwinism. Survival of the fittest as a maxim will result in the abandonment of the elderly, the impoverished, handicapped, etc... You really cannot escape the problems religion creates.

Come to terms with the Real: religions are control systems, nothing more. They aim at the subtle energies that are part of the human form's energetic makeup (structure). Can you say, aura? Yes, auras are real.

People love to think they're being spiritual: this is not the case.
I've spanned all the inner fields: full-nuclear kundalini (not the emerging stages); cosmic conscious (the real cosmic consciousness, not the, "I think I experienced something...maybe it was cc?" kind).

Science & theology are co-conspirators in this subterfuge that has enslaved humanity via perpetrated rigidity of belief structures.

There is something else, a synthesis of the Archetypal Configuration of AllBeing/Allverse. When this is understood & achieved, mankind will crawl from the morass, the ooze of unending unknowing to which it has been victim for millenia.

The 4th dimension (above-within) is reachable through tremendous inner effort: the sequence:
REALIZATION ~ KNOWING ~ WISDOM ~ EMANATION.

I achieve direct-connect through a method given me by a terrestrial alien. Aliens are real: just as real as humans (humans just don't know, that's all).

Beyond the Known lay the Unknown; beyond which, the Unknowable, beyond which, S/He.

But let's be reasonable: wouldn't you tell your tribe of monkeys that god rewards the good, follow our teachings, and we will reveal 'him?' Yes, humanity needs religious belief's: at least the perishable part of humanity.

I won't say, 'wake-up.' Ever try to wake up a grouch?


[edit on 26-12-2008 by SS,Naga]

Religion is strange in as much as weird. Religion says you must not do bad,but in the same token its ok for the good ones,?????
Kill someone in peace time and yu are a murderer, but kill someone during wartime you are a hero,same crime the difference is your leaders give you permission, no,,, encouragement,NO, orders.
So is it wrong to kill? of course it is . governments throughout the world use religion to control, but not always applies to themselves, if you are important enough then there are legal technicalities,loopholes or friends in the right places. education is the key, (the truth will set you free).

reply to post by robwerden


Perhaps a change in one word...

If man kind is to survive, SORCERY must end.

There are always those who wish religion to end, but, very, very few who have a strong desire to cut off the head of the snake.

Originally posted by Siren
reply to post by robwerden

 

Perhaps a change in one word...

If man kind is to survive, SORCERY must end.

There are always those who wish religion to end, but, very, very few who have a strong desire to cut off the head of the snake.

If you have read the bible, it does say that the christians have used "sorcery".

The religions have caused, and will keeping on cause problems for the world. Religion should end, because if it doesn't then the world will end.

Light is serpentine throughout it's entire evolutional cycle.

Cut off the head of yourself?

Thinking can be difficult, yes?

Knowing, impossible for tithe makers.

Wisdom, beyond tithe takers.

Emanation, Source of All Being, part of All.

Ho-hum, another day at childcare.

First off sorry for skipping the last 10 pages of the conversation. I wanted to comment on a comment that we would end up communist if we gave up religion.

You should take a look at the Enlightenment writers and thinkers who were the fathers of the American revolution and the French revolution. The people who sowed the seeds of "modern" democracy. Many and most of them were "Diest" they believed that a god existed and that he let the world do its thing. Thomas Pain latter was referred to as a "diest" even though he never really said he was. He just sounded like it.

In effect, they believed in a greater power but not in "it" over common sense, logic, science. It has been my interpretation from reading these writers that the freedom of religion was more so people could believe in logic and science without fear of the church making them believe in religion or be killed.

If we had less of the "church" and more logic and common sense we would and could actually be more of the "Land of the Free" that the men who inspired the founding fathers were trying to make.

just remember you reap what you sow!

reply to post by SS,Naga


The only reason the wolf did not devour "Little Red riding hood" is because he wanted to mate with her.

And would need someone to feed his damned pups.

reply to post by rattan1


Well, it was also human that started religion. The first religion was the Roman Catholic. They actually started religion up, mostly for power. There was no such thing as religion until Jesus showed up, and passed on. People would go around preaching about Jesus, but religion has not formed from them, the Romans did. They did get smart, even after their fall of great power, by creating this religion, their power still lives on. I'm no conspiracy theory guy at all, I just know my history very well, for the most part. The Romans, were a very smart and intelligent civilization. They were smart in everything they did. All these other religions derived from that, mostly because, they didn't like their ways, so they move somewhere and change it, forming their own religions. If you really studied your history about how most of the kings became kings back then, it was the Pope who chose the kings for the people, to keep things going smoothly for them, the church. Man made religion, therefore, religion is not perfect. People who were fanatics, paranoid, and what not created religion. History tells us, men has always tried to be gods, by doing whatever it took to make it seem that way. But, religion is a bad thing. No supernatural being told anyone to make religion, but man did. All Jesus was saying, was believe and have faith that there is a God. That's all he did for the most part. God created Jesus, because God got tired of babysitting all these people for who knows how long. What would you do, if you got sick and tired of babysitting adults, trying to tell em, I'm here, see me, now do what your told or else, for so many times, what would you have done. I'm sure alot of you would just given up on humankind, but God didn't, he created this perfect being, who was pure heart, to save us. Don't know why that's so hard for people to believe. Common sense would tell people, we just was and is, that would be calling ourselves Gods. Cuz, God was and is. There are people out there, that know for a fact that God and Jesus exist, they just a whole lot different than what people really think they are, or might be. Mostly because a person can't phathom what it would be like to be God or Jesus. I get overwhelmed at times what it would be like to be them. People were brought together before religion was created, but they didn't call themselves anything, it was the Catholics that did, when they created religion.

Originally posted by FalknFerno
The first religion was the Roman Catholic. They actually started religion up, mostly for power. There was no such thing as religion until Jesus showed up, and passed on.......I'm no conspiracy theory guy at all, I just know my history very well,

You might have a fine grasp of your history...but not so much everyone else's history. Because in our history, a Zoroastrian--a follower of Zoroastrianism, of course--might take exception to that claim.

I suppose I should add a linky..Source

[edit on 27-12-2008 by MrPenny]

reply to post by FalknFerno

Well, it was also human that started religion. The first religion was the Roman Catholic. They actually started religion up, mostly for power. There was no such thing as religion until Jesus showed up, and passed on. People would go around preaching about Jesus, but religion has not formed from them, the Romans did.

Actually, it was Paul that did. We can blame everything on him! Click on my thread below and check him out. Catholicism ran with it.