"Iran declares war on US"

while I do not subscibe to the nuke-em crowd I do think a more subtle message needs to be sent to the Iranian Mullahs.

Something like steel rods falling from great heights on Bushear complex for example. Just a little something to get their attention.

The earlier assertion that the administration is blaming one group and then another to avoid blame does'nt hold any water. Its well known and documented that many divergent groups and factions are operating in Iraq at any given time, this is so well known I don't feel links are necessary.

Baath party loyalist, sunni and shiite religious factions, al-Qiada, kurdish and a plethora of other smaller splinter groups are all vying for position before the turnover.

These groups have worked alone in the past as well as in alliance with the other groups and countries to keep Iraq destabilized, whats a shame is that we keep getting blamed for it when the true cause lies elsewhere.

Originally posted by Cyrus


if iran, is attacked, then russia wont stand for it,
there's enough russian arsenal in iran to send all your troops to hell YOU MORON, do you realize what you're saying???

ON WITH THE WAR time to teach pro-war f**kers a lesson.
Cyrus

All very well and good, that bit of patriotism, but I fear that your comments about Russian intervention are pretty unfounded to say the least.

The Russian military machine is washed up. Budget cuts have nearly destroyed it, morale is at it's lowest ever and the arms race with the US, which provided it with much of it's technical know how, is over.
Russia would have a hard time mounting any military operation outside of her own borders now. She was at the height of her powers against Afghanistan but couldn't even handle that scenario. If it wasn't for Russia's nuclear capability, she would be insignificant as a military force.

But all that is a moot point. If you're actually as Russian as you claim to be (I have my doubts), then you would be aware that Islamic extremism is even more of a problem to Russia than it is to the countries in the West. The extremist factions border Russia and some even sit within her borders in Chechnya. Russia isn't going to get into a war defending her enemies - especially as she now relies economically on the capatilist societies to keep her stable.

Any invasion of Iran is going to be treated the same way as that of Iraq. There will be more vocal opposition sure, but nobody is going to care. The whole region wants to see the back of the mad mullahs.

It's doubtful that invasion will be needed though. The whole point of the invasion of Iraq was to set up a stable government with a form of democracy acceptable to the masses. If Iraq does turn into a success story, eventually, revolution in Iran is almost a certainty.

Iran is just playing into americas hands. i am sure the situation is exactly how america planned it.

Originally posted by andy1033
Iran is just playing into americas hands. i am sure the situation is exactly how america planned it.

Yeah, right.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Cyrus


if iran, is attacked, then russia wont stand for it,
there's enough russian arsenal in iran to send all your troops to hell YOU MORON, do you realize what you're saying???

ON WITH THE WAR time to teach pro-war f**kers a lesson.
Cyrus

All very well and good, that bit of patriotism, but I fear that your comments about Russian intervention are pretty unfounded to say the least.

not really...who are you to say anyway

The Russian military machine is washed up. Budget cuts have nearly destroyed it, morale is at it's lowest ever and the arms race with the US, which provided it with much of it's technical know how, is over.
Russia would have a hard time mounting any military operation outside of her own borders now. She was at the height of her powers against Afghanistan but couldn't even handle that scenario. If it wasn't for Russia's nuclear capability, she would be insignificant as a military force.

raising an "unfounded" argument?? russian military is catching up with the U.S'es, our tanks JUMP damnit, we have the best anti-stealth technology on earth, and you know what really sux?? we sell it at 1/5th of the price the americans sell their crap for, can you take a wild guess why the U.S felt inclined to offer to buy some of our ICBM's

technical know-how is booming, we're currently loading up on new-generation scientists, guess what?? american scientsts *cough* *cough* OUR trained scientists sent to the U.S after the U.S.S.R's fall are running out of ideas, it's always been the russians at the tip of technology...i dont see why they should be backing down, money wont make too big a difference, money affects the time-span in which the projects are completed, however plans and ideas can always be worked out.

WAR benefits all, russia's economy, will retrieve it's fullness by 2010, the military will have superior training, plans are currently being made for all of this, and providing we have putin, then all is well.

russia's "nuclear capability" you make it sound like we're sending age-old ww2 rockets... well, our nuclear capability might be the biggest in the world for all you know, i dont either so let's leave it at that

AND the anti-stealth capability is enough to defeat any stealth bombers today (even the x-47 can be spotted with not too much difficulty).

russia, then china, are the biggest threat to the U.S today...if you dont agree then i see no point in continuing with you on this matter.



But all that is a moot point. If you're actually as Russian as you claim to be (I have my doubts), then you would be aware that Islamic extremism is even more of a problem to Russia than it is to the countries in the West. The extremist factions border Russia and some even sit within her borders in Chechnya. Russia isn't going to get into a war defending her enemies - especially as she now relies economically on the capatilist societies to keep her stable.

hmm....you shrug it off as moot? why'd you include it in the post then, or is that all you got on russia...shows how well-informed you really are doesnt it

and guess what Leveller, i dont care if you think i'm a god-damned ukranian or whatever, i'm not scanning on any of my personal info on here if that's what you mean, so uh... was a pretty useless comment to make as well?? (i might think you're a mullah, only i dont really bloody care now do i??)

actually...it isn't a problem to russia as much as the U.S would be once it became russia's close neighbour, NATO from one side? the U.S from the other? can you see where this might be going?




Any invasion of Iran is going to be treated the same way as that of Iraq. There will be more vocal opposition sure, but nobody is going to care. The whole region wants to see the back of the mad mullahs.

you're delusional...the whole region was fine till the AMERS showed up

It's doubtful that invasion will be needed though. The whole point of the invasion of Iraq was to set up a stable government with a form of democracy acceptable to the masses. If Iraq does turn into a success story, eventually, revolution in Iran is almost a certainty.

success story??? when has the U.S ever won a war?? your whole basis is wrong, stupid wrong decisions, military tactics scrapped for "lies".

let me tell ya smthng, we have this war veteran group, we discuss this war every other day, see...they predicted your gvrnmnt's moves since day1 (afghan invasion), so if some sklerosis-affected old timers figured you guys out, how long did you r crap last in the eyes of the rest of the world?

let me tell you a little about public morale, nobody likes amers, face it...you're a disgrace due to your shove and push mentality, the whole...punch first, ask questions later attitude, was a mistake, kickstarting the process in afghanistan was a mistake, tell me why your average american would rather claim he's canadian.

when done with that explain why the majority are violent by nature? (i'm probably wrong...there are inteligents, just hard to come across in the U.S these days)

your culture has affected so many countries it makes some people sick, my sister attends an american cult, she worships a god-damned statue every wednesday when the stars line up, the founder for that cult's an american, the cult's leader's american, tell me why you guys seem to infiltrate any other life-style with "c*rap, hip-hop, and all that molarchy..

GWB was a mistake, the whole post-clinton era has taken the U.S downhill, you're 700trillion in debt how are you planning to pay those debts up mr. america?
*listens attentively*
oh...you aren't??
well i guess you should be trusted to settle most of your responsibilities the american way huh?




[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Cyrus]

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by andy1033
Iran is just playing into americas hands. i am sure the situation is exactly how america planned it.

Yeah, right.

"Satyr" are you one of those that think everything happens by accident.

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by andy1033
Iran is just playing into americas hands. i am sure the situation is exactly how america planned it.

Yeah, right.

"Satyr" are you one of those that think everything happens by accident.

actually, every1 keeps missing satyr's point.

i'm backing him up (if i understand him correctly).

9/11 occured, despite the U.S'es being informed, who disagrees? *silence*

ok, once we're over that, what's to stop me from saying that they let it happen so as to "play mad" at the terrorists and start their invasion rampage?? *silence*

okay...so what's to stop me from claiming that the U.S is now trying to fulfill it's plan, to create a safe-zone for israel to invade syria so as to eliminate any close-border conflicts? far-fetched...not really, call it, an elimination process

with israel's sugar-daddy standing by just in case, that gives israel the perfect "harness" to start chucking itself with full confidence at the opposition.

the sad thing is, the opposition has no choice but to recieve the blows since they fear...YES! the U.S

does it seem like a fair fight? can you see why russia hasnt interfered yet?

russians are the good guys ok?
conprende? *silence*
then re-read it till u get it.
Cyrus





[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Cyrus]

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Cyrus]

Originally posted by andy1033
"Satyr" are you one of those that think everything happens by accident.

No. I'm one of those who thinks the gov't is comprised of evil bastards with alot of power and not much sense.

I sure wish certain people here would learn how to use the quote tags. It gets extremely difficult to follow those bold comments when someone quotes a quote with them. Who the hell is saying what?

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Satyr]

actually, every1 keeps missing satyr's point.

i'm backing him up (if i understand him correctly).

9/11 occured, despite the U.S'es being informed, who disagrees? *silence*

I do. Please show me proof that we knew their exact methods, times. and targets. Don't tell me that we had specific intell on the day, targets, etc.

No. I'm one of those who thinks the gov't is comprised of evil bastards with alot of power and not much sense.

well put, what is that famous saying about power and how it corrupts.

the problem i have with them is that they believe they are doing the right things, and it is just going to leave them with all the power and technologies, and us nobodies have no choice in anything that happens.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

actually, every1 keeps missing satyr's point.

i'm backing him up (if i understand him correctly).

9/11 occured, despite the U.S'es being informed, who disagrees? *silence*

I do. Please show me proof that we knew their exact methods, times. and targets. Don't tell me that we had specific intell on the day, targets, etc.

No fighter jets were scrambled, from what I've heard. You don't find that a bit suspicious? We've all seen hijackings before, and they have jets flying beside them almost immediately. And what about the plane full of Islamics that was allowed to leave, and quickly escorted out of the US?

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by COOL HAND

actually, every1 keeps missing satyr's point.

i'm backing him up (if i understand him correctly).

9/11 occured, despite the U.S'es being informed, who disagrees? *silence*

I do. Please show me proof that we knew their exact methods, times. and targets. Don't tell me that we had specific intell on the day, targets, etc.

No fighter jets were scrambled, from what I've heard. You don't find that a bit suspicious? We've all seen hijackings before, and they have jets flying beside them almost immediately. And what about the plane full of Islamics that was allowed to leave, and quickly escorted out of the US?

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Satyr]

I am not interested in having a debate, I simply want the information that proves the 9-11 happened with our prior knowledge of it.

I want to see specific proof that there was specific intelligence that told us of the specific targets, times, dates, locations, flight information, routes, names, etc..

Show me the evidence so that I can see it with my own eyes and make my own determination.

The U.S. doesn't have enough troops to invade Iran, what are you, nuts? They don't even have enough on the ground to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan.

Is Iran going to launch missiles against the US? Doubtful. A land invasion? No frickin way.

If the US invades Iran, it'll be at a huge cost of US soldiers' lives.

Iran doesn't have a 3rd World military like Iraq did (hey, they have an actual Air Force!).

While it's nice to see such blind trust in the power of the US military, try to inject some realism. You would lose. Badly.

Iran has more worldwide support and sympathy than the US does at this point. Shocking but true.

There is none but pieced together educated guesses.

seekerof

Iran doesn't have a 3rd World military like Iraq did (hey, they have an actual Air Force!).

While it's nice to see such blind trust in the power of the US military, try to inject some realism. You would lose. Badly.

Iran has more worldwide support and sympathy than the US does at this point. Shocking but true.



Where are you getting this load of garbage from?

We would be able to take out there AF in a matter of hours. The maintenance record for them is horrible.

I won't even bother bringing up their "navy."

Maybe Canada would be whipped by them, but the US would not.

whatever COOLHAND, you're just driving yourself into the pit, however you'd rather have us do your homework for you

no...tell you what, here:
Mr. Bush's comments come after a two-day hearing on Capitol Hill with FBI director Robert Mueller and the agent who wrote the so-called "Phoenix memo" last summer warning about that Arab students training at U.S. aviation schools were linked to a militant Muslim group.

The agent, Ken Williams, was concerned by the flight students' affiliation with Sheik Omar Bakri Mohammed's group because the sheik had been involved with a fatwa � an Islamic call to action � that suggested airports as one of several legitimate attack targets in the United States, officials told The Associated Press.


www.cbsnews.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> www.cbsnews.com...

EDITED:
BAH...i'll just chuck the whole lot in here, im sick of posting crap all over the place.

---------------------------------------------



"...the war on terrorism is a smokescreen and that the US knew in advance about the September 11 attack on New York but, for strategic reasons, chose not to act on the warnings."

politics.guardian.co.uk...


and then there's:

"CBS reporter David Martin revealed that weeks before the attacks, the CIA had warned Bush personally of Osama Bin Laden�s intent to use hijacked planes as missiles. That followed the damaging exposure by The Associated Press�s John Solomon of a pre-9/11 FBI memo from an officer in Phoenix warning of suspicious Middle Eastern men training at flight schools�a warning that went unheeded."

www.inthesetimes.com...

you really are dim if you've missed all this COOLHAND

....this: "The U.S. government had received repeated warnings of impending attacks�and attacks using planes directed at New York and Washington�for several years. The government never told us about what it knew was coming."

www.villagevoice.com...





"One such CIA briefing, in July 2001, was particularly chilling and prophetic. It predicted that Osama bin Laden was about to launch a terrorist strike 'in the coming weeks,' the congressional investigators found. The intelligence briefing went on to say: 'The attack will be spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties against U.S. facilities or interests. Attack preparations have been made. Attack will occur with little or no warning.'"

www.msnbc.com...

ok that's enough for now
Cyrus


[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Cyrus]

Cyrus,
!. Link does not work for me.
2. You said it yourself, it listed airports as potential targets. Now maybe I missed that on 9-11 but there were no airports that were hit.

I say again, show me the evidence that proves that we knew the what, where, when, and how. I have repeatedly asked that question since I first came to the site and have yet to get a solid answer for it.

Originally posted by Cyrus
the american empire

has already been defeated, the people in iraq are rebelling, time to relax, rip open a can of beer, and watch the show.

face it AMER, the U.S just wont win any wars,(you may win battles...i.e afghanistan, iraq) but it simply wont happen, GB or not

i am a russian, pro-war rubes disgust me,
this is just getting ridiculous, you people just wont learn will you??

ON WITH THE WAR time to teach pro-war f**kers a lesson.
Cyrus

This from the MIGHTY empire of the Ukrain huh? Look man you were conquered for 50+ years and after reading this tripe I can see why.

Go back to your cold little corner of the world and let the LEADERS handle the dirty work...

m...

Wow, some of you folks just aren't looking at the big picture. Of course Iran is next on the list. I believe it has been since 9-11.

You can believe what you want but this IS a Holy War declared by Islamic Fundimentalism. All their clerics say the same thing and preach hate against America. Does anyone think that if we pulled everything out now that they would stop their Jihad? I don't. I've said before that it's not just the US they war on, it's Western Culture and that is not going away even if we never set foot in the Middle East again.

Spain did exactly what Islam wanted and tossed out their government. Have the bombings in Spain stopped? No? Hmmmmm. That says a lot for appeasement doesn't it.

Well, now you are going to see what happens when you declare war on the US and the Western Culture it represents as Islam foolishly has and as Japan foolishly did in WWII.

Don't you get it yet? Islam is coming to do away with your way of life. They are coming to burka you wife and beat you if you don't grow a beard. It's really that simple. We are the infidel and that is all that matters to them. It doesn't matter what we do, or what we give them, or if we simply go away. That isn't why they hate us. They hate us because their Religion (in the form of corrupt and hate filled clerics) tells them to, and as anyone who reads these forums at all should know, you can't argue with, convince, or teach anything to someone who believes (however falsely) they are doing "God's will".

Cyrus, I was going to address some of your post but I just can't take you seriously at all and I think the errors in your outlook are self apparent so I won't bother. I think it's pretty clear where you are coming from.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Cyrus,
!. Link does not work for me.
2. You said it yourself, it listed airports as potential targets. Now maybe I missed that on 9-11 but there were no airports that were hit.

what r u high? *pass us some* how the hell do you think the ragheads got on the damn planes...OSMOSIS???


I say again, show me the evidence that proves that we knew the what, where, when, and how. I have repeatedly asked that question since I first came to the site and have yet to get a solid answer for it.

*sigh*
Cyrus