That Led Zepplin Devil Worship Discussion

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The music being embedded with messages is true as well.

The message of rock and roll. Nothing else. Stop the disinfo.

It may be somewhat pertinant, I keep hearing that Crowley is also somewhere on the Sgt. Pepper's album, though I've not heard anything about the Beatles being interested in him, definitely not as interested as Page.

Edit: I think he's supposed to be second from the left on the toppmost row.





[edit on 19-12-2008 by asmeone2]

Yeah, he is 2nd from the left on the top row. John Lennon makes a slight reference in a interview with Playboy magazine. They were into everything at that time.

Originally posted by Dulcimer
Yeah, he is 2nd from the left on the top row. John Lennon makes a slight reference in a interview with Playboy magazine. They were into everything at that time.

I don't really know much about the Beatles but I think it was probably a passing fancy with them... as you said, into everything... I do think that Mick Jagger was into Crowley for a bit though. And also friendly with th Zeppelin boys.

Yeah Mick Jagger was into all sorts of things, but I don't think he took anything too seriously.

I was at a Rolling Stones concert a few years ago and Mick Jagger threw a private party. I was approached at a local bar by some Rolling Stones goons and told to bring some women to X location at X time (so he could have a good time)

Needless to say, I saw no devil worship on the dance floor.

Keith Richards is the living dead.

Does it really matter what the guy's religious beliefs are? Whether he is a "satanist" or not is a personal matter of his, and while it is interesting to take a look and speculate as to the nature of his religious beliefs at the end of the day such things are personal.

Personally I think it is of no consequence whether he is a "satanist" or not. I don't believe there is such a thing as "the devil" or an ability to "sell your soul" to it, if such a thing as a soul even exists.

However this is not the place to debate religion, nor should any of you be overly concerned with what his religious beliefs are. Why is this so significant to some of you?

Furthermore, would there be such an upheaval/inquest/investigation into this matter if it was Islamic, Buddhist, Taoist or Zoroastrian symbolism?

Originally posted by Yazman
at the end of the day such things are personal.

Not when you are an international rock star and there is occult symbology and lyrics strewn throughout your products in which millions and millions of children (and adults) are exposed to.

People have a responsibility to know what they are subjecting themselves to. They have a right not to expose their children (and themselves) to things that they deem wrong.

If the rockers kept their religion (or cult, or whatever) to themselves, then it would not be an issue. However, since their albums have the symbology on the covers and there is evidence that at least some of the lyrics were attained through automatic writing, then it is pretty clear that the band - Led Zepplin - has been rather public about their occult involvement.

People have a right to know what they are exposing themselves to.

If the band wanted privacy in regards to their religion, then they themselves shouldn't have opened the door to investigation by being so dramatic about their occult involvement.

reply to post by asmeone2

Even so, I love the music. Even if the band members WERE devil worshipppers... well.... I would still have to say thank you for the music. It has inspired me and helped me through some very difficult times in my life.

Nah, I don't think I'll stop listening.

me too - there were times when Zeppelin was the only thing I could listen to

wonder why that is?

devil worship/satanism aside - it seems to me that once a piece of art leaves the person that's created it - it stands on it's own - completely separate

and past that point the meaning is always up for grabs - it means what it means to the observer

you could also interpret their stuff from a different angle - and read any belief system into it that you want

to me the least important part of anything they created was the lyrics. Not the vocals - but the actual lyrics. The lyrics could have been gibberish for all the difference they really make (again - just my point of view).

It was how they were used musically that gets to me

Plants voice - how he uses his voice - incredible

I never got to see them live - so I can't really say anything about how much of his voice on the album is studio - how much is just him

I've seen Plant solo in recent years - he can sing, but doesn't hit the same notes in quite the same way - but at his age, who does?

reply to post by BlackOps719

If any band ever did sell their souls to the dark side in exchange for musical talent it would have been these guys. No band before or since can even come close to their skill level as a group...IMO of course

I think in the future - far enough in the future for Led Zeppelin to really have existed in the past - and far enough in the future for me to not experience the ridicule I'll probably get first hand for saying this now - they won't be considered one of the best rock bands of all time - their music will be discussed in the same way people discuss classical music or jazz

it was unique at the time they created it - but, while all art is usually derivative, it's still different from everything around it

OK, let me have it...

[edit on 12/20/2008 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


"Best" is always going to be subjective anyway.

I wouldn't call them best, either, just my favorite.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I have to wonder, though, why shoudl they keep it to themselves?

Just because someone has an unusual beleif system, doesn't mean they have to keep it to themselves, even if they are exposed to millions of people.

THink about it... it's nothing for a politician to get on TV and say "God Bless America," or for another musician like George Harrison to espouse Hinduism, TOm Cruise to be Scientologist and Madonna to be Kabbalist.

I think it's asking a bit too much to say that someone should keep their personal beleifs under wraps just because they are famous.

IMO it's the burden of the audience, not the artist, to avoid a message that they don't like.

Somebody might not agree with the message that Page or anyone else puts into their artistic works but no one is forcing them to be exposed to it. The can choose not to listen to the album, watch the movie, whatever else.

[edit on 20-12-2008 by asmeone2]

Where to start with only 4000 characters.

There is a very interesting book called "Fallen Angel - The Untold Story of Led Zeppelin" by a chap called Thomas Friend who was a Led Zeppelin fan in the 70's but is now a born again Christian. It's about 700 pages long and quite heavy in places but if you want to investigate this further and draw your own conclusions, this is the book you want to read. The book talks alot about Crowley and Crowleyanity, the devil and specifically Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelins lyrics and their live shows....

I'll summarise just very small parts as best as I can as the book is exceptionally long and in depth to say the least and I don't have my copy to hand.

Jimmy Page read his first Crowley book at the age of 11 or 12 and gained an interest from there on out. Jimmy's early career was as a session musician which he was very successful as. During this time, Jimmy also owned and ran the "Equinox" occult book store in Kensington High Street until Led Zeppelin really took off. In this store, Jimmy had probably the largest selection of Crowley artifacts and rare edition books anywhere. Also, another point worth noting on touching this subject is that Jimmy Page produced a facsimilie version of Crowley's writing "The Goetia" published by Samuel Weisner Inc in the US (one of the only publishers who publish occult and satanic works). Now if Page wasn't a Crowleyite, why would he go out of his way to reproduce a whole book?

As for Crowley, by his own words (not those of a misunderstood occultist), he sought out the devil himself to "become his chief of staff". He refers to Satan as his lord and in his writings, he quotes the devil as saying that yes he is a liar. Remember that age old saying along the lines of, the devils greatest deceit was convincing the whole world he didn't exist!

Now even though Crowley was generally outspoken, based on his writings, Crowley encourages heavy drug use, alcoholism or anything that makes one more susceptible to suggestion / demonic possession or in cases hypnosis of sorts if you like which leads onto Led Zeps live shows.

For anyone with a copy of The Song Remains the same DVD and CD, there are lots of points to note on this. All of the fantasy sequences Thomas friend relates to different aspects of Satanism and the style of music. The first reference is at the start of the film, the mysterious letter turning up and telling the band they are playing the next day referenced to something like Satan sending Led Zep out to do his work. JPJ's sequence riding on horse back at night with masks relates to the black Sabbath, Jimmy Pages sequence (filmed behind Loch Ness and Boleskine House - Crowleys former residence) relates to spiritual union with the devil, it shows Page, climbing the mountain and becoming one with the devil. Robert Plant's sequence has several references, first the sun (satan being "the light"), the Red Dragon of the Welsh Flag and the fight sequence is apparently meant to represent Satan fighting Jesus and defeating him. Also you see Plany sitting eating a red mushroom which is encouraging the use of hallucinates. I can't remember what Bonhams was supposed to represent now. In relation to some other references, in the CD, Plant keeps singing 29 in Dazed and Confused which is part of the chemical name for '___', encouraging the listener to take hallucinates. The use of the Theremin and violin bow are part of what would be referred to as hypnosis of the listener leaving them open to suggestion and possession by demons.

Being that song remains the same is the only feature film by Led Zep, this was used by Thomas Friend as a reference point. As for the lyrics of pretty much most of their songs, again, we're not talking necessarily backward masking on all, but if you know were to look, the lyrics do relate to Satanism and encourage the listener to discover more for themselves.

Barely the tip of the iceberg, more to follow as out of characters....

Originally posted by FlyersFan


People have a right to know what they are exposing themselves to.

Its crap like this that sends me over the edge. The people choose to listen to the music, buy the albums and attend the concerts. Nobody ever pinned me down and told me to listen to Zeppelin.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

As for Crowley, by his own words (not those of a misunderstood occultist), he sought out the devil himself to "become his chief of staff". He refers to Satan as his lord and in his writings, he quotes the devil as saying that yes he is a liar. Remember that age old saying along the lines of, the devils greatest deceit was convincing the whole world he didn't exist!

Now even though Crowley was generally outspoken, based on his writings, Crowley encourages heavy drug use, alcoholism or anything that makes one more susceptible to suggestion / demonic possession or in cases hypnosis of sorts if you like which leads onto Led Zeps live shows.

And for the umpteenth time HE LIKED MESSING WITH PEOPLE. You know shocking them? He made such statements as a way of *gasp* shocking people.
His whole belief system AS HE STATED IT and many have adopted or bastardized and adopted does not have a place for a devil. After all there is no sin for claiming to want to be like andor/a the devil when you do not believe any such creature exists.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Where to start with only 4000 characters.

There is a very interesting book called "Fallen Angel - The Untold Story of Led Zeppelin" by a chap called Thomas Friend who was a Led Zeppelin fan in the 70's but is now a born again Christian.

Now that book right there should come with a label that says "WARNING: May contain hidden agenda!"

reply to post by Dulcimer


Hey man, don't take one of my favorite teen memories away from me! I am not a stinkin disinfo agent, I am a fan! Not that I worship the devil but that was some righteous shiz back then, just playing it felt rebelious,it didn't matter if it was true or not, I loved it, still do! I have read on many sites that it is true, as well as is isn't true. But I also played it backwards myself, and whether we heard it by suggestion or for real, we heard it.

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by Dulcimer

 

Hey man, don't take one of my favorite teen memories away from me! I am not a stinkin disinfo agent, I am a fan! Not that I worship the devil but that was some righteous shiz back then, just playing it felt rebelious,it didn't matter if it was true or not, I loved it, still do! I have read on many sites that it is true, as well as is isn't true. But I also played it backwards myself, and whether we heard it by suggestion or for real, we heard it.

I am a band who is just wrapping up an album.

We have three songs with backwards and barely audible suggestions.
In our case we did it for fun, just to be silly...

Anyhow a great band... The music speaks for itself.

I was a big time LedZep fan back in the 70's.

I don't know how many 8-track tapes I wore out listening to Page's guitar riffs, John Paul Jones hard driving bass lines, Bonzo's massive drum pounding and Plant's eerie sounding vocals. Since it wasn't possible to play 8-track tapes backwards I had to rely on my belt drive turntable.
How groovy was that?

Looking back, the backwards-playback was nothing more than random hit and miss audio that probably had nothing to do with Satan, but that's not to say Page wasn't connected to Black Magic in some way.
I don't know what it takes to sell your soul and I don't know how you would go about doing it, but I really think it's possible.

Would I do it?
Hell-l-l-l n-, I mean, no way, simply because you don't know what you might be getting yourself into.

Robert Johnson did it, they even made a movie about it.

Jimmy Page probably did it too.
Looking back, some of his guitar playing now sounds somewhat sloppy but the way he was able to compose his almost hypnotic music makes me think he may have been connected with some unknown entity that was perhaps channeling through him.

Yngwie Malmsteen may have sold his soul too.
He had too have done it because he is just too freakin fast a guitar player. It's humanly impossible to play with speed like that without some outside intervention.

BTW, did you know that Satan was actually in charge of God's music department before he got booted out of Heaven?

This might explain the rock music-Satan connection.
I never understood it before but maybe Tipper Gore had inside knowledge about this stuff. According to her I'm probably going to hell for ever lisening to Classic R&R, but oh well.

I don't know how many 8-track tapes I wore out listening to Page's guitar riffs, John Paul Jones hard driving bass lines, Bonzo's massive drum pounding and Plant's eerie sounding vocals. Since it wasn't possible to play 8-track tapes backwards I had to rely on my belt drive turntable.

reply to post by Alxandro


Your right that was very groovy indeed! I loved the turntable, I still have one too, finding records is no problem either, just go to any flea market or yard sale! Ebay has some good finds too. 8 tracks, man, remember when you could fix your own tapes? It wasn't rocket science to, but I had plenty that were missing parts of songs, ect, from getting stuck and I would cut out the part that was wrinkled up. CD's can't touch that!

Originally posted by Alxandro
BTW, did you know that Satan was actually in charge of God's music department before he got booted out of Heaven?

Hmm.. so he created playlists for the big G for his gPod?

And I always thought the Angel Lucifer was God's right hand man before the big fall. I guess that makes sense, who better would know what to load for the big guy to jam to while creating all of this.
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS


WOW, so one sided. How do I get the time back that it took me to read that? Oh crap waisted even more replying. Must stop now...
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Yazman
at the end of the day such things are personal.

Not when you are an international rock star and there is occult symbology and lyrics strewn throughout your products in which millions and millions of children (and adults) are exposed to.

People have a responsibility to know what they are subjecting themselves to. They have a right not to expose their children (and themselves) to things that they deem wrong.

If the rockers kept their religion (or cult, or whatever) to themselves, then it would not be an issue. However, since their albums have the symbology on the covers and there is evidence that at least some of the lyrics were attained through automatic writing, then it is pretty clear that the band - Led Zepplin - has been rather public about their occult involvement.

People have a right to know what they are exposing themselves to.

If the band wanted privacy in regards to their religion, then they themselves shouldn't have opened the door to investigation by being so dramatic about their occult involvement.

So country music should not be about cowboy stuff? Would that make Hip Hop be the same, being it talks about stuff going in with inner cities where some of them grew up in?
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Sorry about that, just gets to me sometimes. Being a Thelemite and a member of the OTO and knowing from the inside what it is about makes me also one sided also I guess.

I also want to mention I was raised Catholic, went to church off and on as a kid, did from 1st Communion through confirmation and believed in Christ as much then as now. I truly 100% believe that being a Thelemite brought me closer to what Jesus wanted us to be then when I was going to Catholic church.

I have a few more things I want to add, but have to get ready to head to the Temple. Today is Winter solstice so we are having our OTO Yule Mass today.