Indian fighter planes violated Pakistan's air space

Indian fighter planes violated Pakistan's air space

thenews.com.pk

ISLAMABAD: Indian fighter planes Saturday violated Pakistan’s air space by entering two places in Kashmir and Lahore.

Planes of Pakistan Air Force (PAF), which were already on alert, quickly came into action and forced the India’s fighter jets to leave Pakistan air space, Geo TV sources said.

The sources further said that the Indian planes were fully equipped with warheads.

Meanwhile, a state run TV channel has reported that a loud blast was heard in Arabian Sea between Badin and Jati cities Saturday night.

However, further details about the blast were not received.

The cause and exact location of the blast is being ascertained.

The local people were in a state of fear after the blast, sources said.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
thenews.com.pk

For some reasons which I've never understand, it has been generally considered that Pakistan is the bad guy among the two. However, I've always found it to be the opposite, never heard anytime about the Pakistani planes violating the Indian territory else there would be a great cry about the Islamic terrorist stuff all over the world.

I wonder where this is all going to end?

thenews.com.pk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Holy shiat that is NOT GOOD.

They were armed with ``warheads``... nuclear warheads? Because otherwise you don't say that kind of thing...

This is totally NOT GOOD. Seriously, if planes start carrying nukes... and enter enemy airspace...

This looks like they gonna go closer to nuclear war than in 2002.

I'll paraphrase the former ISI chief, Hamid Gul, the next war can't be conventionnal. If there's another war between India and Pakistan, it will be nuclear. And China/Russia won't stand by. Especially China... they won't have a nuclear war in their backyard.

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Vitchilo]

reply to post by Vitchilo


Interestingly Pakistani planes didnt shot them down for violating their territory. May be the plan is to entice Pakistan to do something so can the game begin.

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Unlettered]

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Unlettered]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
They were armed with ``warheads``... nuclear warheads? Because otherwise you don't say that kind of thing...

Remember it's a .pk site (Pakistani) - English is likely a second language to whoever wrote it, I knew some people at school who's family was from India (and yes I know it's not Pakistan , just using as an example), they were first generation brits, and I used to love it when I talked to their parents and cousins etc, some of the things they say are just like that - and there is no point correcting them either, because they know they have used the correct term - which they usually have... In this case a warhead is a 'live' missile - likely 'live' with conventional high explosives.

But, you never know - but how can you tell if a missile has a live warhead unless it used? Do they paint 'live' on the side

reply to post by Unlettered


Well think about Pakistan's expertise on proxy wars by using Islamic fighters to fight its wars while India does not, so India can only send its fighter aircraft. To build up a proxy force would take time.

reply to post by deltaboy


The Pakistan economy is on the verge of collapse, there have already been world's highest number of suicide boming this year in Pakistan (yes more than Iraq). It's not the best of time for the government to start a proxy war.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Holy shiat that is NOT GOOD.

They were armed with ``warheads``... nuclear warheads? Because otherwise you don't say that kind of thing...

Calm down everyone.

As was posted on here not long ago, currently Russian Bombers are invading UK and European, and US airspace nearly daily, fully loaded with Nukes, the first time since the Cold war ended.

Just because it is "Warheads" it means just that Live ammo, could be air to air and just fighter Jets no one said Bombers, and if so It would be just conventional explosives.

Both countries are so close to each other, they can use rudimentary rockets for any Attack long range Bombers are not the order of the day.

in addition as one poster said its a pk site so the reliability, and spin being used is unknown.

As I have said elsewhere on ATS Pakistan and India have been exchanging live Bullet, Artillery and Rocket/Grenade rounds for decades, and having similair excursions into each others territory.

It worries me much more that the USA is invading Pakistan Airspace weekly and actually dropping the ordanance, usually on innocent civilians, then just normal posturing like this, this is not new, Afghanistan/Nato/USA/UK and Drones firing Hellfires into Pakistan IS NEW.

I am keenly looking for explosion can find none.

The Associated Press of Pakistan are saying something very different:

ISLAMABAD, Dec 13 (APP): Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani Saturday said the international diplomacy is helping defuse tension with India after the Mumbai tragedy and reiterated Pakistan would take action in line with its own laws if evidence was provided by New Delhi and no Pakistani national would be extradited. In an interview with Reuters, Gilani said prospects of a military confrontation between the nuclear-armed neighbours has receded in the two weeks. “Normalisation takes time,” Gilani said.

APP

Nothing at all breaking on URDU or Pakistan wires.

Take a Pill calm down, read History, think on the Drones and Nato and the Russian Bears flying oh soo close to your border today if you want your nuke worry fix!

Kind regards,

Elf

in addition as one poster said its a pk site so the reliability, and spin being used is unknown.

A few more links:

www.ctv.ca...

www.thestate.com...

This is also on sky news (breaking news banner). Although I can't see it on their web page yet.

OMG a bit of MSM and the "Terrorists" and everyone forgets!!!

CHAKOTHI, Pakistan — Artillery shells boomed across the 459-mile border dividing Pakistani and Indian Kashmir for the fifth straight day Tuesday in a deadly duel between nuclear-armed neighbors.

USA Toady May 2002

Same Place... just jets no fighting this time!

MUZAFFARABAD, Pakistan (AP) -- Indian soldiers fired artillery shells across a disputed border into the Pakistani-controlled part of Kashmir on Friday, killing at least two people and injuring six, Pakistani police said.

CNN 2000

Oh Again?

KARGIL, India - Pakistani shells slammed into an oil-tanker convoy on a crucial Indian highway today while the nations' troops battled over mountain peaks in the disputed province of Kashmir. The shelling came two days after President Clinton met with Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and raised hopes of a speedy end to the two-month battle in the snowcapped Himalayas.

Seattle Times June 1999

Oh dear nearly 10 yrs ago that, how long has this been happening for then?

Now lets look at REAL HISTORY!

Pakistani artillery also began shelling seven Indian positions along the heavily defended Punjab border, a spokesman said. The only ground attack re ...

New York Times - Dec 4, 1971

And I could link hundreds upon Hundreds going back even further.

CALM DOWN!

Some jets flew over the border, some posturing, no one this time was killed... just normal routine stuff that CNN and MSM will pick up on as the recent focus because of Mumbai...


I am much much more concerned about the NATO troops on the way to Waristan's border than this, and so should we all be!

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 13-12-2008 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by MischeviousElf


You right, this is nothing new, but there's now new factors.

- Both have nukes
- Back then there was no or far less extremists compared to today in Pakistan in terms of numbers, organisations and weapons
- Back then the government of Pakistan was pro-USA which is not now , that's why the US want to take it back by blaming them for everything

But yeah, there's a long shot before a war.

And you're right, NATO actions in Pakistan are much more dangerous to peace than Indian ones.

Obama's surge in Afghanistan, Obama's willingness to invade Pakistan, Obama's willingness to blame everything on pakistan, Obama's willingness to bring back Pakistan under US rule... and if the US people or Pakistan don't want it, they'll stage more terrorists attacks in India to blame it on Pakistan so they can have their excuses to invade.

And you're right, the missile strikes in Pakistan are dangerous, because they stir up extremism in Pakistan, destabilising it further. Didn't those strikes started AFTER Musharraf was out?

And just something else. If you want to ``win`` a nuclear war, you don't launch your long range missiles from your territory, because your enemy will have time to launch theirs. If you want to win, you put nuclear missiles on your planes, and make a fast first strike on the enemy capital, army and on it's missiles before they can launch them.

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Vitchilo]

Im not seeing this on the news anywhere. looking at skynews, foxnews, CNN, Reuters, Jpost, Al Jazeera etc. Nothing.

I am much much more concerned about the NATO troops on the way to Waristan's border than this, and so should we all be!

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 13-12-2008 by MischeviousElf]

Agreed, just wanted to add that things like these aren't going to decrease extremism either.

Originally posted by Unlettered


For some reasons which I've never understand, it has been generally considered that Pakistan is the bad guy among the two. However, I've always found it to be the opposite, never heard anytime about the Pakistani planes violating the Indian territory else there would be a great cry about the Islamic terrorist stuff all over the world.

I wonder where this is all going to end?

thenews.com.pk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Could it also be that you are generally mis-informed and generally biased ??

Just look up the many cases of Pakistani air space violations. Usually, they end in tragedy for them.

And dont forget, Pakistan IS the bad-guy or at the very least have bad-guys as family with them.

The Indians said it was a mistake:


"However, in a statement, Pakistan Information Minister Sherry Rehman said the Indian Air Force had told Pakistan the incursion was "inadvertent."

"Our forces are on alert," Rehman said, adding, "There is no need for undue alarm."

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Holy shiat that is NOT GOOD.

They were armed with ``warheads``... nuclear warheads? Because otherwise you don't say that kind of thing...

This is totally NOT GOOD. Seriously, if planes start carrying nukes... and enter enemy airspace...

This looks like they gonna go closer to nuclear war than in 2002.

I'll paraphrase the former ISI chief, Hamid Gul, the next war can't be conventionnal. If there's another war between India and Pakistan, it will be nuclear. And China/Russia won't stand by. Especially China... they won't have a nuclear war in their backyard.

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Vitchilo]

And what will they do really ? nuke India ?? And that will accomplish only one thing - nukes flying in their direction too.

Their best bet would be to sit idle and wait for the dust to settle. They are in no position to dictate anything . In a nuclear war, one nuke over Shanghai would be much much more terrible than a nuke over Mumbai.

Ugh. The last thing the world needs right now is these two playing chicken with each other. Let's hope they learn to tolerate each other before things get out of control.

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by Unlettered

 

Well think about Pakistan's expertise on proxy wars by using Islamic fighters to fight its wars while India does not, so India can only send its fighter aircraft. To build up a proxy force would take time.

The reason for this is very simple. India doesnt need to use terrorists or fight proxy wars to achieve anything. Its the same thing as Iran and Israel. Hezbullah is a bastard child raised by Iran because the parent is impotent and weak while Hezbullah is merely mad.

To provoke Pakistan, it would only take a few incursions but what exactly would be the gain ?? The Indians might be slow and bureaucratic but they are not stupid people. There would be no provoking a democratic pakistani government only to have some military general come to power again like Musharaff.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by MischeviousElf

 

You right, this is nothing new, but there's now new factors.

- Both have nukes
- Back then there was no or far less extremists compared to today in Pakistan in terms of numbers, organisations and weapons
- Back then the government of Pakistan was pro-USA which is not now , that's why the US want to take it back by blaming them for everything

But yeah, there's a long shot before a war.

And you're right, NATO actions in Pakistan are much more dangerous to peace than Indian ones.

Obama's surge in Afghanistan, Obama's willingness to invade Pakistan, Obama's willingness to blame everything on pakistan, Obama's willingness to bring back Pakistan under US rule... and if the US people or Pakistan don't want it, they'll stage more terrorists attacks in India to blame it on Pakistan so they can have their excuses to invade.

And you're right, the missile strikes in Pakistan are dangerous, because they stir up extremism in Pakistan, destabilising it further. Didn't those strikes started AFTER Musharraf was out?

And just something else. If you want to ``win`` a nuclear war, you don't launch your long range missiles from your territory, because your enemy will have time to launch theirs. If you want to win, you put nuclear missiles on your planes, and make a fast first strike on the enemy capital, army and on it's missiles before they can launch them.

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Vitchilo]

Hello ??

The Indians had nukes in the 70's ! They first tested a nuke in the mid 70's back when Pakistan was "pro-America". (That's if they were ever Pro-America, considering that it is an Islamic state where most of the people want to carve infidels and Jews up).

Also India has a no first use nuke policy and unlike Pakistan, the Indian military is firmly under the control of the Indian government. People should be more worried about the Pakistani military going AWOL under all this international pressure.

As for Obama, he is the only smart man to have come to the White House in the last 10 years who can see the Pakistani's playing America for a fool to milk US taxpayers for money to buy bombs, planes and jets to fight against India instead of terrorists. Are you worried that the US gave nearly $5 billion + military "aid" of to Pakistan military all the while they were harbouring Taliban and co and not allowing NATO troops into their "zoo" to clean up their mess !