TOO LATE? Why scientists say we should expect the worst

reply to post by EpicJ19


This ain't research mate, it is the rate which is unprecedented. We've avoided an ice age and may need nukes to cool down the planet to get rid of the other exteme. For purely environmental reasons of course.

n another post (nothing to do with global warming) I put forward an article by Harvard geochemist Charles Langmuir. He talks about evolutionary steps, while we have overcome previous evolutionary steps we may not survive another. He is not talking about global warming directly but more about human interactivity which kinda gets to the same thing I suppose.

ScienceDaily (Dec. 1, 2008) — Human degradation of the environment has the potential to stall an ongoing process of planetary evolution, and even rewind the evolutionary clock to leave the planet habitable only by the bacteria that dominated billions of years of Earth’s history, Harvard geochemist Charles Langmuir said

and this...

“We are … an agent for planetary evolution or an agent for planetary destruction,” Langmuir said. “Do we relate to the current environmental problems as if we are users of the Earth, or do we recognize that we are the byproduct of 4.5 billion years of planetary evolution? What we do may determine whether the planet is able to move into its next phase of development.”

But you are better reading the whole article.
Link

For those who have perhaps skipped to the end of this tread or forgotten this in the original article

Anderson is not the only expert to voice concerns that current targets are hopelessly optimistic. Many scientists, politicians and campaigners privately admit that 2C is a lost cause." This is what "TOO LATE" is

If you DON'T belive in global warming its okay its your gamble, you may just die along with the rest of us. The way I see it; its like being a passenger in a car someone else is driving like a maniac.

Originally posted by majestictwo



These guys cannot be wrong all the time, there are too many researchers all saying similar. There surely cannot be a conspiracy in science to have us limit emissions because of something else other than global warming. Some people would have us belive its a good thing.

What "guys" do you speak of? Less than HALF of all researchers even agree on this ill-founded theory of Human induced Global Warming, and many who once did, are now themselves publicly coming out in opposition towards the alarmist attitude put forth by pseudo-scientists such as Al Gore. This is nothing more than an extremist-environmentalist agenda to enact laws which oppress the quality of life (the opposite of what cleaning up the environment is supposed to do), and force everyone to take on the ludicrous and whacked out views of tree-huggers the world over.

I am all for conservation, but this "theory" of Human Induced Global Warming is easily proven FALSE when the entire picture is closely analyzed. Too many pseudo-scientists with political agendas treat this "theory" as if it is a proven "law", when in reality it remains as ill-logical as any preposterous quack-induced idea ever put forth.

If you study Earth's Climatological History, and Space-Based Meteorology, you will soon discover the fallacy of this drama.

the ice caps are melting on mars also, it is all about a solar cycle, not about us! That does not mean, we humanity should not lead a more planet friendly existence though, what scares me is the total obscurification program, the suspension of 10 million tons of aluminum oxide, supposedly inert into the upper atmosphere, ongoing 24/7 world wide, who is doing this? which country is the most reluctant to cut back on emissions? Who has ther planes? who thought up the idea? Even when the models said, and i quote, this could destroy the ozone layer, this planet will take care of itself, even if it means eradicating humanity, so we have a choice people, so either we listen to their BS or we the people take a stand, there are things that need to be done, as in preparation etc, i get so .. frustrated, the young people have no clue, many of the older ones do they have seen the changes, but what most of you really need to know is that, global warming is followed very rapidlly by global cooling, HELLO? i forget his name, but one of the top scientists at MIT is predicting an ice age within 5 yes 5 years, i will see if i can find that link and repost cheers all

[edit on 9-12-2008 by voodmon]

Originally posted by FoxStriker
Did anyone consider the fact that if we lost 50 miles of ice and only gained 3 miles back thats its no reason to celebrate.... Were still in the negative, Global Warming as always will make money for those that know how to make money off everything. But on a serious note, We've seen more Ice lost in this century than any gains we have had.

en.wikipedia.org...:Glacier_Mass_Balance.png

If you want to compare number for the years glaciers retreated as a NFL Team we'd be the Cincinatti Bengals. Were on a losing streak. a bad losing streak

Just my 2 cents.

Fox

Actually that is false to a certain degree. The Ice Growth vs. Recession is different in all regions of the Globe. For the FIRST time in recent record keeping, Glaciers have been expanding in sections of Alaska.

As for the Polar Region, and the supposed "Disappearing Ice", there was a huge fuss being made about NOTHING but NORMAL Summer Ice Melt. The Media manipulated the language to read "North Pole to be without Ice", yet, it often DOES go without ice coverage for Two Weeks out of every Year. There is ALWAYS ice in the North Polar Region, but the Pole itself does on average open up for Two Weeks.

I have heard the most ridiculous of claims put forth by some real whacked out individuals (NOT meaning you, you make a logical point), who have stated that Great White Sharks and Barracudas are now being sighted in Barrow, AK, and the Natives have no names for these "Unfamiliar Creatures". Well obviously that is a load of garbage, as Barracuda are Tropical Fish, and Great Whites do not intrude further North than Washington State in EXTREME circumstances.

Second, I even heard some STUPID claim put forth by the same lady where she stated that Snow Machiners in Anchorage now have to drive 3-5 Hours North, in order to ride their Machines, due to a lack of snow. Well, tell me why just last year, which is the date described by this lady, Anchorage received one of their Top 5 Snowiest Winters on RECORD! They received upwards of Nine Feet of Snow Total, yet this lady claimed that there was not enough snow for Snow Machining. Unless Snow Machines have 10 Foot Keels, then she is obviously hallucinating.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Well, either we've already screwed ourselves and there is nothing to worry about or the Earth is going through cyclical climate changes much as it always has and there is nothing we can do and therefor nothing to worry about.

Either way, I'm not really worried. The Earth will do what it does, the planets will spin, the sun will shine and everything will go on as it was meant to, with or without us.

So you can look your children in the eye and state quite categorically that there is nothing we can do? Not even worth trying for their sake?


Appalling attitude.

Originally posted by jdub297
While there are millions of impoverished Chinese and Indians, both countries are nuclear (nucular? (won't be able to say it that way anymore)) powers with huge industrial bases.

Not as compared to their population numbers.

The Chinese are currently raping Africa for raw materials and building dozens of coal-fired power plants as you write your drivel.

The Chinese are a positive force for development, ( human and otherwise) as compared to what Africa got as result of continuing western economic imperialism/predation.

The Chinese are building dozens of Coal fired plants ( they are completing one new large plant per week ) but they are also shutting down many smaller inefficient pollution prone one's in the process. If one however consider just how much of that pollution were simply the result of western corporations shifting their manufacturing bases China would be a distant second behind the US in many environmental toxins:

Fundamentally, however, a good portion of China's air pollution is simply outsourced smog: industry that has migrated from the U.S. and E.U. to China to help maintain low prices or clean Western skies. A full 23 percent of China's greenhouse gas emissions can be linked to Western exports, according to an analysis by researchers at the Tyndall Center for Climate Change Research in England. And researchers at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh put the percentage even higher: 33 percent.

www.sciam.com...

As i pointed out earlier the Chinese government is doing more than their fair share of creating a renewable energy infrastructure and even more so when one takes into account the popular pressure for the cheapest possible energy.

Statistics show that in 2005, a total of US$38 billion was invested in renewable energy development worldwide. China topped the list with a commitment of US$6 billion, excluding spending on large hydropower projects.

China has good reason to speed up its renewables development, as the country is fairly poor in many energy resources in per capita terms. Its remaining exploitable reserves of petroleum and natural gas are merely 7.7 percent and 7.1 percent of world averages, while those of coal are 58.6 percent of the world average. At the current rate of extraction, China’s proven reserves of these resources could last 15, 30, and 80 years, respectively, compared with world averages of 45, 61, and 230 years.

Already, the pace of adoption is noticeable. China's renewable energy development has grown at an annual average of 25 percent over the past few years, according to Zhang Guobao, deputy director of the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC). By the end of 2005, the country's installed hydropower capacity reached 110 million kilowatts (kW), compared with 1 million kW in 2004 and only 0.492 million kW in 2000. China’s 61 wind-power plants claimed a total generating capacity of 1.26 million kW in 2005, up from 0.764 million kW the year before. The 1,500 or so biogas projects resulted in a combined annual capacity of 1.5 billion cubic meters. In addition, 70,000 kW of solar power facilities were operational nationwide in 2005.

www.worldwatch.org...

The impoverished in those countries are the result of government policies.

Certainly in good part so but one should not forget that these countries were the targets of economic sanctions and economic predation for a good part of the last century. Certainly the government could have taken alternative routes but then there are numerous countries ( India, Indonesia, Thailand , to say nothing of South-America , Africa and the third world in general) that were forced to adopt western developmental policies and where people are now poorer for it decades later. Whatever the mistakes of the Chinese government it could be India where people are certainly worse off for their adoption of western style capitalist.

Of course, since you're an expert on sino development, you know that they are destroying their own rivers and farmland with corrupt practices.

And they are fast learning from their mistakes as made clear by their re-forestation programs which are all but unmatched in the rest of the world.

findarticles.com...
www.idrc.ca...
russian.china.org.cn...

Again i agree that more can be done but when one sees how little is being done in fully developed nations the motives of those who only point fingers east are easily exposed.

There is no reason they can't be made part of the gang that wants to clean up the environment.

They do want to and are spending more than most to do so.

But, you miss the point of this thread entirely: there is no Man-Made Global Warming.

Didn't miss it at all but i certainly got sidetracked by some 'concerned' citizens who can apparently only muster concern when the Chinese and Indians pollute.

If you are so concerned, go there and help.

It would be far easier and efficient to convince someone with a PC to pollute less as they are the one's doing the absolute vast majority of the damage. Stop blaming those who are in their desperation to survive are still only consuming a fraction of the resources you do while being victims to the worse side effects of the pollution caused produced for foreign markets.

Stellar

[edit on 10-12-2008 by StellarX]

Originally posted by infolurker
Global warming has benefited from one of the greatest public relations and marketing efforts in recent history. You'll hear plenty from environmentalists about carbon emissions, clean energy, and the disappearing arctic, but here's what you will NEVER hear them admit:

Global warming is not a conspiracy, we never spent a cent on it because we've always used 'green products' for as long as I remember, but we feel it. I used to sleep with thick blankets on December two decades ago, in the past couple of years I could sleep naked in the same month.

But a good deal of 'global warming' money is being wasted on pointless inventions. That I would agree with. So it's not a conspiracy but greedy people taking advantage of the situation with further stupidity.

It's even more disturbing that some people are actually happy with the Arctic Ice completely melting - more shipping lanes and more oil!!?? ----!! There, I just said it :/ Do they really mean this? Are they even humans?

reply to post by infolurker


The sad thing is people don't like facts getting in the way of propaganda they have fallen for without doing their own research, as it generally makes them look stupid and noone likes to look stupid.

So while more facts about the fraud of global warming/climate change and carbon tax credits are becoming more available and reported more frequently those who have fallen for the scam will happily bury their heads in the sand and avoid seeing the truth just so they don't lose face & feel embarrased. And because of that the rest of us who have our eyes open to scam will still suffer from governments stealing our money because those folk with their heads in the sand won't stand up & say "no more" so the scams will forever continue and people will become opressed more & more in this so called "free" society we live in

[edit on 10/12/08 by Discotech]

the more we discover the less we know, one thing about humans is our amazing capacity to forget the errors of the past.

These "climate" scientists are like the new inquisition and witch hunters, just another outlet for people who wish to control and curtail other people's lifestyles- I despise most of these charalatans

Same goes for those "protestors" at aiports who basically tend to be middle class self righteous bores who should not be given the amount of media airtime they receive, they basically hate people getting cheap flights

Horrible people

Originally posted by Discotech
reply to post by infolurker

 

The sad thing is people don't like facts getting in the way of propaganda they have fallen for without doing their own research, as it generally makes them look stupid and noone likes to look stupid.

So while more facts about the fraud of global warming/climate change and carbon tax credits are becoming more available and reported more frequently those who have fallen for the scam with happily bury their heads in the sand and avoid seeing the truth just so they don't lose face & feel embarrased. And because of that the rest of us who have our eyes open to scam will still suffer from governments stealing our money because those folk with their heads in the sand won't stand up & say "no more" so the scams will forever continue and people will become opressed more & more in this so called "free" society we live in

Some people need to drop a brick on their foot before they will believe in gravity. They won’t believe its going to hurt no matter how many scientists calculate the results. It is those people who look stupid. It is those people who think there is a conspiracy in everything.

Personally I don't need to actually experience the brick on the foot thing, global warming or have scientist and governments tell me – I can see what’s happening.

The barrier reef is bleaching, jellyfish are blooming and small islands are going under because the sea is rising.

Protect climate change refugees, conference

There has been a call today for human rights protection for people who are forced to leave their homes because of rising sea levels. Experts and representatives from affected island nations met in Canberra today for a United Nations-sponsored conference to discuss the forced displacement of people because of climate change.

It is indeed “TOO LATE” for them. What until it affects you and then we’ll hear the cry for help.

Originally posted by blueorder
the more we discover the less we know, one thing about humans is our amazing capacity to forget the errors of the past.

These "climate" scientists are like the new inquisition and witch hunters, just another outlet for people who wish to control and curtail other people's lifestyles- I despise most of these charalatans

Too true, jordan maxwell says it best, when he says trust someone searching for the truth never trust someone who has found it. I think we can put scientists in the "i found the truth", group.

Global warming is such a con, and so many scientists brought into it.

Originally posted by majestictwo

It is indeed “TOO LATE” for them. What until it affects you and then we’ll hear the cry for help.

total bs, people have suffered from climatic, environmental disasters throughout the ages, this "climate change" (formerly global warming now rebranded) cult is an outlet for frustrated marxists (whether cultural marxists or straightforward marxists) to identify more selected "victim" groups, to assign guilt and to push for greater global/state control on people

Shame on the charlatans and their lackies

Originally posted by blueorder
the more we discover the less we know, one thing about humans is our amazing capacity to forget the errors of the past.

These "climate" scientists are like the new inquisition and witch hunters, just another outlet for people who wish to control and curtail other people's lifestyles- I despise most of these charalatans

Same goes for those "protestors" at aiports who basically tend to be middle class self righteous bores who should not be given the amount of media airtime they receive, they basically hate people getting cheap flights

Horrible people

What kind of a post do you call that – I see nothing in there that adds to the threads progress.

Originally posted by majestictwo

What kind of a post do you call that – I see nothing in there that adds to the threads progress.

do you see a witch, burn me burn me, how dare I not follow your cult


[edit on 10-12-2008 by blueorder]

omg
not more global warming
GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX!
GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX!
man, why is this even posted....
if anything we might be heading into another ICE AGE
there has been no sun spots
man check this out: LISTEN AND LEARN
www.youtube.com...

www.americanthinker.com...

JUST GOOGLE THIS: no new sun spots new ice age

Originally posted by GRANDWORLDDRAMA
omg
not more global warming
GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX!
GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX!
man, why is this even posted....
if anything we might be heading into another ICE AGE
there has been no sun spots
man check this out: LISTEN AND LEARN
www.youtube.com...

www.americanthinker.com...

JUST GOOGLE THIS: no new sun spots new ice age

truly frightening that so many deluded people exist (most of whom have received decent education) and yet the global warming cult is taken as fact and orthodoxy by most mainstream media

Originally posted by jimmyx
ok my 2 cents...global warming is causing...climate...CHANGE...CHANGE!!!
what part of the word CHANGE do you people NOT understand?

Dangit, I thought we just voted FOR change.. and now you tell me CHANGE is bad?

I'm so confused.

OGC

Originally posted by Knobee

Dangit, I thought we just voted FOR change.. and now you tell me CHANGE is bad?

I'm so confused.

OGC

can we blame this on Obama, please tell me we can

The ocean are indeed rising in the Australian region – its happening.


[img]http://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/images/CSIRO_GMSL_figure.jpg