TOO LATE? Why scientists say we should expect the worst

TOO LATE? Why scientists say we should expect the worst

www.guardian.co.uk

The Guardian, Tuesday December 9 2008
At a high-level academic conference on global warming at Exeter University this summer, climate scientist Kevin Anderson stood before his expert audience and contemplated a strange feeling. He wanted to be wrong. Many of those in the room who knew what he was about to say felt the same. His conclusions had already caused a stir in scientific and political circles. Even committed green campaigners said the implications left them terrified.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
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I fret over this kind of talk in the article:-

"The escalating scale of human emissions could not have come at a worst time, as scientists have discovered that the Earth's forests and oceans could be losing their ability to soak up carbon pollution."

and this:-

"The region, the largest frozen peat bog in the world, had begun to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago. Scientists believe the bog could begin to release billions of tonnes of methane locked up in the soils"

and this:-

"The Southern Ocean's ability to absorb carbon dioxide has weakened by about 15% a decade since 1981, while in the North Atlantic, scientists at the University of East Anglia also found a dramatic decline in the CO2 sink between the mid-1990s and mid-2000s."

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These guys cannot be wrong all the time, there are too many researchers all saying similar. There surely cannot be a conspiracy in science to have us limit emissions because of something else other than global warming. Some people would have us belive its a good thing.



www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well, either we've already screwed ourselves and there is nothing to worry about or the Earth is going through cyclical climate changes much as it always has and there is nothing we can do and therefor nothing to worry about.

Either way, I'm not really worried. The Earth will do what it does, the planets will spin, the sun will shine and everything will go on as it was meant to, with or without us.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Well, either we've already screwed ourselves and there is nothing to worry about or the Earth is going through cyclical climate changes much as it always has and there is nothing we can do and therefor nothing to worry about.

Either way, I'm not really worried. The Earth will do what it does, the planets will spin, the sun will shine and everything will go on as it was meant to, with or without us.

Well I guess I don't fret for myself but I think if this has reached such dire consequences where in the article it is said to be "Too Late" we should regret that we've ruined future generations life style. I can only imagine their forum posts when they speak of us.

There is one of two things that can be done.

Either we change the script of the course we are on, or whine about it and do nothing and expect nothing.




Cheers!!!!

reply to post by RFBurns


Well, we could try and get China to stop burning coal at the same rate as London circa the Industrial Revolution. All I've heard about is how we need to drive less and recycle our soda bottles. Meanwhile China, one of the biggest countries in the world, burns so much coal that the sky is a sickly brown.

However, I'm of the group that believes the Earth goes through cyclical climate changes, that it always has and always will and that there is little we can really do. Not to mention that a global warming trend could actually result in an ice age as opposed to the fire ball certain ex VPs would like us to believe in.

Global warming has benefited from one of the greatest public relations and marketing efforts in recent history. You'll hear plenty from environmentalists about carbon emissions, clean energy, and the disappearing arctic, but here's what you will NEVER hear them admit:

Scientists have reaped MILLIONS from their global warming "research." They've turned supporting global warming - into a cash cow!

These same scientists were trying to convince us the world was cooling just a few decades ago, when that's where the grant money was.

Read up on the carbon credit scam & so called "cap and trade". This "creates" a whole new paper trading / subsides industry. If this is allowed to happen there will be to much money in it for it to ever go away.

What Governments and Special Interest groups believe in is all the money that will come with the "carbon credit" scam and all the power it gives a government to do as it wishes against the will of the people in the "interest" of mankind

Companies are figuring out how to work the ridiculous "Carbon Credits" debacle to make big bucks. (and as they get paid, traders trade paper and real industries have to buy the paper and pass on the cost to .... wait for it... US!)

Rhodia, is a French Company, makes adipic acid which is a chemical used in the production of nylon. They have moved their operation to South Korea and Brazil. Why?

A by-product of their manufacturing process is the creation of nitrous oxide, a greenhouse gas that is over 300 times more potent as an atmospheric warming agent than carbon dioxide. Rhodia destroys the nitrous oxide after it has been created and then claims carbon credit reimbursement for the green house gasses it has eradicated.

Rhodia, makes more money from this scam than they do from their primary business, They are raking in around a three hundred million dollars a year - more money than the whole of Africa is from Carbon credit reimbursements!

Also, Al Gore has a very big personal investment into bringing this carbon credit (cap & trade) to America.

www.capitalresearch.org...
Here is the deal, this whole Kyoto protocol is nothing but a money grab. Even many die hard global warming groups are starting to see that this scheme will do little to nothing in reducing carbon emissions.

daily.stanford.edu...

Global Warming - NASA Scientist Dr. Hansen caught again

Article Quotes - NASA Scientist caught lying again

vocalminority.typepad.com...

I for one did not know that this had happened. This is Gore's pet global warming gloom and doom prophet again being caught passing off bad data and when caught, they try to cover it up.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml

If there is one scientist more responsible than any other for the alarm over global warming it is Dr Hansen, who set the whole scare in train back in 1988 with his testimony to a US Senate committee chaired by Al Gore. Again and again, Dr Hansen has been to the fore in making extreme claims over the dangers of climate change. (He was recently in the news here for supporting the Greenpeace activists acquitted of criminally damaging a coal-fired power station in Kent, on the grounds that the harm done to the planet by a new power station would far outweigh any damage they had done themselves.)

Yet last week's latest episode is far from the first time Dr Hansen's methodology has been called in question. In 2007 he was forced by Mr Watts and Mr McIntyre to revise his published figures for US surface temperatures, to show that the hottest decade of the 20th century was not the 1990s, as he had claimed, but the 1930s.

Another of his close allies is Dr Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC, who recently startled a university audience in Australia by claiming that global temperatures have recently been rising "very much faster" than ever, in front of a graph showing them rising sharply in the past decade. In fact, as many of his audience were aware, they have not been rising in recent years and since 2007 have dropped.

Dr Pachauri, a former railway engineer with no qualifications in climate science, may believe what Dr Hansen tells him. But whether, on the basis of such evidence, it is wise for the world's governments to embark on some of the most costly economic measures ever proposed, to remedy a problem which may actually not exist, is a question which should give us all pause for thought.

reply to post by infolurker


are you saying global warming is not a threat? that it's just a money making venture?

serious question cuz i don't know anything about global warming.

More Article Notes:

If there is one scientist more responsible than any other for the alarm over global warming it is Dr Hansen, who set the whole scare in train back in 1988 with his testimony to a US Senate committee chaired by Al Gore. Again and again, Dr Hansen has been to the fore in making extreme claims over the dangers of climate change.

In addition, as the Telegraph article goes on to say, this is not the first time Hansen has been caught fixing the climate data! As Christopher Horner reported last September that the very same Anthony Watts caught NASA fixing the data by placing thermometers “… in Arizona parking lots, overhanging black asphalt pads, near cell towers and hot-air blowing air conditioner exhausts or next to trash burn barrels, … setting one just away from a chimney directly above a Weber barbecue grill …”

Horner goes on to explain:

This embarrassment came amid NASA also having to correct its data since the year 2000, which has been used to support many of the global warming alarmists’ “money claims”, such as Al Gore’s line that 9 of the 10 hottest years on record occurred in the past decade.

Well, no. We now know that this is false and that NASA has corrected the record to reflect that the warmest year in the U.S. was 1934, 4 of the 10 warmest here occurred in the 1930s, 3 during the 1990s, and one each in the 1920s, 1950s and this decade. That this claim has now been debunked, like most every other statement of substance in Mr. Gore’s movie.

vocalminority.typepad.com...

reply to post by infolurker

In the OP clip There surely cannot be a conspiracy in science to have us limit emissions because of something else other than global warming.

your clip What Governments and Special Interest groups believe in is all the money that will come with the "carbon credit" scam and all the power it gives a government to do as it wishes against the will of the people in the "interest" of mankind

So all these scientist have been brain washed to say the same thing or given grants at least have a common theme.

It's been nice knowing you all.
It was fun while it lasted, but it seems the party is drawing to an end.
You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

"So long, and thanks for all the fish!"

Glaciers are growing around the world, including the United States
Global Warming? New Data Shows Ice Is Back
19 Feb 08 - A Feb. 18 report in the London Daily Express showed that there is nearly a third more ice in Antarctica than usual, challenging the global warming crusaders and buttressing arguments of skeptics who deny that the world is undergoing global warming. See: Most snow cover since 1966

Usual Global Warming Alarmist BS. Glaciers are growing all over the world.

www.iceagenow.com...

* NORWAY
Ålfotbreen Glacier
Briksdalsbreen Glacier
Nigardsbreen Glacier
Hardangerjøkulen Glacier
Hansebreen Glacier
Jostefonn Glacier
Engabreen glacier (The Engabreen glacier
is the second largest glacier in Norway. It is a
part (a glacial tongue) of the Svartisen glacier,
which has steadily increased in mass since the
1960s when heavier winter precipitation set in.)

* Norway's glaciers growing at record pace. The face of the Briksdal glacier, an off-shoot of the largest glacier in Norway and mainland Europe, is growing by an average 7.2 inches (18 centimeters) per day. (From the Norwegian daily Bergens Tidende.) See www.sepp.org...


Click here to see mass balance of Norwegian glaciers:
www.nve.no...

Choose "English" (at top of the page), choose "Water,"
then "Hydrology," then "Glaciers and Snow" from the menu.
You'll see a list of all significant glaciers in Norway.
(Thanks to Leif-K. Hansen for this info.)
* CANADA
Helm Glacier
Place Glacier
Glaciers growing on Canada’s tallest mountain
17 Nov 08 – The ice-covered peak of Yukon's soaring Mount Logan
may be due for an official re-measurement after readings that suggest
this country's superlative summit has experienced a growth spurt.
See Glaciers growing on Canada’s tallest mountain

* France
Mt. Blanc
* ECUADOR
Antizana 15 Alpha Glacier

* SWITZERLAND
Silvretta Glacier

* KIRGHIZTAN
Abramov

* RUSSIA
Maali Glacier (This glacier is surging. See below)

* GREENLAND See Greenland Icecap Growing Thicker
Greenland glacier advancing 7.2 miles per year! The BBC recently ran
a documentary, The Big Chill, saying that we could be on the verge of an ice
age. Britain could be heading towards an Alaskan-type climate within a decade,
say scientists, because the Gulf Stream is being gradually cut off. The Gulf
Stream keeps temperatures unusually high for such a northerly latitude.

One of Greenland’s largest glaciers has already doubled its rate of advance,
moving forward at the rate of 12 kilometers (7.2 miles) per year. To see a
transcript of the documentary,
go to www.bbc.co.uk...

* NEW ZEALAND
All 48 glaciers in the Southern Alps have grown during the past year.
The growth is at the head of the glaciers, high in the mountains, where they
gained more ice than they lost. Noticeable growth should be seen at the
foot of the Fox and Franz Josef glaciers within two to three years.(27 May 2003)
Fox, Franz Josef glaciers defy trend - New Zealand's two best-known
glaciers are still on the march - 31 Jan 07 - See Franz Josef Glacier

* SOUTH AMERICA
- Argentina's Perito Moreno Glacier (the largest glacier in Patagonia)
is advancing at the rate of 7 feet per day. The 250 km² ice formation,
30 km long, is one of 48 glaciers fed by the Southern Patagonian Ice
Field. This ice field, located in the Andes system shared with Chile,
is the world's third largest reserve of fresh water.
en.wikipedia.org...

- Chile's Pio XI Glacier (the largest glacier in the southern hemisphere)
is also growing.

* UNITED STATES
- Colorado (scroll down to see AP article)
- Washington (Mount St. Helens, Mt. Rainier* and Mt. Shuksan)
(scroll down to see photo of Mt. Baker)
- California (Mount Shasta - scroll down for info)
- Montana (scroll down for info)
- Glacier Peak, WA (scroll down for info
- Alaska (Mt. McKinley and Hubbard).
(scroll down to see article on Hubbard Glacier)

*

Antarctic ice grows to record levels
13 Sep 07 - While the Antarctic Peninsula area has warmed
in recent years and ice near it diminished during the Southern
Hemisphere summer, the interior of Antarctica has been colder
and ice elsewhere has been more extensive and longer lasting,
See Antarctic ice grows to record levels

www.iceagenow.com...

I know for a fact we contribute, anyone who says we do not is in denial. I dont know that there are not cycles though. And the temp goes up and down on the planet. The Sun also changes. But then again our contribution could be directly causeing the changes in the oceans and releaseing more green house gases. Point made simple, Sue Blue soccer moms not giving up her SUV. So theres really no reason to even debate the issue, when people start getting microwaved when they step outside then theyll change. Until then its not their problem.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by Memysabu]

Scientists wouldn't have any jobs if they didn't just sell us doom all the time, and then at a later date sell us expensive solutions to them.

Originally posted by Lazyninja
Scientists wouldn't have any jobs if they didn't just sell us doom all the time, and then at a later date sell us expensive solutions to them.

Its a good point; Is this this what is in fact happening are they using grants to come up with figures that suit governments or not.

I am sure we are miss using the planet and we should clean up our act. What we are doing is not good but is it doing as much harm as they say. Who do you belive

reply to post by infolurker


Excellent post!!!

To counter the argument for ice growing at the Pole, environmentalists took the position that "it is the wrong kind of ice"!!!! WTF?????

ICE is ICE. For it to form, it must be cold enough. I have not heard of water freezing at +1°C.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
reply to post by infolurker

 

Excellent post!!!

To counter the argument for ice growing at the Pole, environmentalists took the position that "it is the wrong kind of ice"!!!! WTF?????

ICE is ICE. For it to form, it must be cold enough. I have not heard of water freezing at +1°C.

ok my 2 cents...global warming is causing...climate...CHANGE...CHANGE!!!
what part of the word CHANGE do you people NOT understand? it could be a mass freezing of an ice age OR...again the word OR... a massive earth warming. the CHANGE is what is going to be catastrophic. man will survive either way....but ...he will NOT...NOT...survive lack of oxygen.

i will put it simply

too much methane= man dies
too much carbon dioxide= man dies
not enough oxygen= man dies

[edit on 9-12-2008 by jimmyx]

reply to post by ll__raine__ll




"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill..."[1] The First Global Revolution, Club of Rome, an elite think-tank (David Rockefeller, Gorbachev, etc.) working with the UN.

"...we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public's imagination.... So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts.... Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest."[2] Stanford Professor Stephen Schneider

"The earth continually warms and cools. The cycle is undeniable, ancient, often abrupt, and global. It is also unstoppable. Isotopes in the ice and sediment cores, ancient tree rings, and stalagmites tell us it is linked to small changes in the irradiance of the sun."[3, page 4] Atmospheric physicist Fred Singer and Dennis T. Avery, Unstoppable Global Warming
“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony... climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”[4] Christine Stewart, then Canadian Minister of the Environment

Am I reading this correctly. I thought I was reading something that didn't have a solution within logical reach, that didn't take imposing draconian penalties or try to curtail the development of third world, such as world wide equalizing policies and incorporating wind, solar, and geo thermo. Because if I'm reading the capitalistic fervor of the West, that benefited just a few, should be blamed on the poor of the world, when the solution to an equal world has always been right under noses, and better energies, I'm goig to

reply to post by infolurker


Yup, yep, and yessir...well put together Infolurker...

Thanks for beating me to it.....