TOO LATE? Why scientists say we should expect the worst

Originally posted by majestictwo


I fret over this kind of talk in the article:-

"The escalating scale of human emissions could not have come at a worst time, as scientists have discovered that the Earth's forests and oceans could be losing their ability to soak up carbon pollution."

and this:-

"The region, the largest frozen peat bog in the world, had begun to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago. Scientists believe the bog could begin to release billions of tonnes of methane locked up in the soils"

and this:-

"The Southern Ocean's ability to absorb carbon dioxide has weakened by about 15% a decade since 1981, while in the North Atlantic, scientists at the University of East Anglia also found a dramatic decline in the CO2 sink between the mid-1990s and mid-2000s."

----------------

These guys cannot be wrong all the time, there are too many researchers all saying similar. There surely cannot be a conspiracy in science to have us limit emissions because of something else other than global warming. Some people would have us belive its a good thing.



www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

"I fret over this kind of talk in the article"

…..and I fret that there are still people that take these boffins serious. Please friend, look at the thousands of other scientists and people that don't give any weight to the human causing any of this so-called 'Global Warming'. The fact that you have governments telling you this crap should be warnings enough?

Originally posted by majestictwo
reply to post by infolurker

 

In the OP clip There surely cannot be a conspiracy in science to have us limit emissions because of something else other than global warming.

your clip What Governments and Special Interest groups believe in is all the money that will come with the "carbon credit" scam and all the power it gives a government to do as it wishes against the will of the people in the "interest" of mankind

So all these scientist have been brain washed to say the same thing or given grants at least have a common theme.

No it was just 1 person who may or may not have been a scientist and they all went off his numbers.

Any that have done their own research have been ostracized by the public and the loads of people who believed this one man.

Even our govt. is now staying away from the global warming topic and folks inside the government going out on their own talking about global warming is their own thing no longer a govt. thing due to the fact the govt. doesn't want to look like idiots in the end.

However the govt. still promotes cleaner alternatives to what today's industry uses. This way the govt. can say we have always been a proactive group in cleaning up the environment without saying the planet is going to melt.

Originally posted by ll__raine__ll
reply to post by infolurker

 

are you saying global warming is not a threat? that it's just a money making venture?

serious question cuz i don't know anything about global warming.

First and foremost I am not saying we dont need to cut back on dangerous polutants, with that said the truth..
We are not warming "globaly" we are actually heading towards a cooling trend as evidenced by the suns recent decline in sun spot activity. This is a totally natural occurance and has been scientifically proven to have happened at precise intervalls throughout our history. The artic glaciers over the last year have grown a whopping 30%. This is a great turn of events as it is the glaciers natural melt off that helps keep our oceans worldwide in a proper current and balance.
Now as far as their plants not doing their proper absoring rates this is due to the fact that the Monsato corp knowingly sent out all their gm and gmo seeds knowing that it would naturally spread to all plant life on earth. Not only making humans sick but killing off other spieces that they could blame on global warming and too many people here and there.( well honestly they think humans are a plague and should be eradicated)
Now the only way these same plants that are the very base of our eco system can be fixed is if yet another messing with nature endevor takes place. This would have to mean creating a species that doesnt absorb the dna of the gm and gmo plants but can still grow till we can irradicate the gm and gmo. By the time we figure out that one, millions upon millions would have died. This alone is the full reason this has taken place. All of the teams that have worked on the gm and gmo plants have stated with out guilt in their white papers that "humans are a plague" "they need to be erradicated" " we must save the planet at any cost". Just a few of the mentally deranged spews from their mouths.
But all these so called "scientists" are nothing but money grubbers who want to make a buck no matter what. The more in control they are of the money the more of the same we are going to get. They dont even allow the reports that tell otherwise to be published in the USA they have total control over the WHOLE enviorment.

edit to add:
Seems alot of people have forgotten that at the begining of the Somalia Pirate debacle that they where screaming at the tops of their lungs about foriegn governements DUMPING TOXIC WASTE off the coast of their country! Wonder if the area in the natural tide flow just happens to be down stream from one of the many areas they are doing this?
end edit

[edit on 9-12-2008 by xoxo stacie]

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Well, either we've already screwed ourselves and there is nothing to worry about or the Earth is going through cyclical climate changes much as it always has and there is nothing we can do and therefor nothing to worry about.

Either way, I'm not really worried. The Earth will do what it does, the planets will spin, the sun will shine and everything will go on as it was meant to, with or without us.

See it's that "without us" piece that has me concerned.


You know the South American Natives didn't care either that they were wiping out their ecology when they were building their pyramids. And they wiped out their entire culture.

Humans, again and again, have caused the demise of their own cultures for primarily ecological reasons.

And yet you sit unconcerned. Well, that seems to fit with the pattern. There are always tons of people who are not concerned and won't listen right before things fall apart.

Take capitalism for example... how many people said "Oh the economy is fine... it will figure it out... invisible hand.. blah blah blah". Well now we see where that got us don't we?

Go ahead and be dismissive of this as well....

Blah...

Listen people!!!

Global warming does not exist! simply because ALL the hot air escapes by the HOLE IN THE OZONE LAYER. Notice how they never mention it?

even the founder of the Weather Channel declared it a myth, and i'm pretty sure he would know.

from the man himself.

"It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create in [sic] allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the "research" to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus...."

So stop with the fear mongering please.

We know the Earth can take all these changes. It's very durable. What scientists fail to acknowledge is that they aren't concerned about the health of the planet itself, but rather its health in relation to its ability to sustain a human population at present levels. I think we just have to adapt technologically. We've been doing it for the 275,000 years that we have been a species. Why stop now? Let's put up electrostatic force fields around our low lying cities to prevent flood. Let's use Tesla's technology that was so shunned by the public but a hundred years ago. Let's modify the weather. Let's become masters of this earth and employ the full scale of planetary engineering to our benefit.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by cognoscente]

But this big push for industrialization is occurring now at a time when alternative methods are available, people do not need to be living in abhorrent conditions rather they need to change the mismanagement by the renegades at the top.

Development doesn't need to rely on fossil, or nuclear fuels, nor with various innovative homes, such as earth ships, cob and those using the natural properties of the earth, often using recycled goods, do we even need to make this situation worse. This is a problem that isn't real. Ie. a problem with a ethical ideal solution isn't a problem. Its a crime when the right things aren't done.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by mystiq]

I too have heard many news stories from scientists suggesting that we are way past the point of no return in terms of global change.

Whether this is natural or man-made - cooling or warming - the climate is changing. That is obvious.. Look outside. In ten years the UK climate has changed dramatically.

The seasons here in the UK are practically unrecognisable and the weather changes on a sixpence. Its winter now, and today its about 1 degree outside. Tomorrow it could quite easily be a comfortable 10 degrees. FACT. This is happening.

But if we are past the point of no return, it seems stupid to start taking measures to reduce carbon etc etc - perhaps we should be putting effort into changing the way we live to adapt to our new world.

Build houses with thick stoney walls that maintain constant temperature all year round regardless of the frequency of temperature fluctuation outside, consider new methods of farming to ensure we can sustain agriculture as the climate changes.

It is a complete waste of resources to concentrate souly on 'global warming' - CO2 - carbon neutral, Ozone - all cliches turned into scientific celebrities by the media - just as benal and meaningless as Paris Hilton.

I'm a scientist, biochemist in the healthcare sector. We have a lot to look forward to in both medicines (should we continue the trend of the last 100 years) and environmental conditions (should we continue the trend of the last 5 years). The biggest problem our society faces is economic. Can we make healthcare affordable for everyone? Can we afford the transition to cleaner energies soon? Can we ensure employment? Can we fix credit? Retirement? As a former banker, these are of greater concern to me.


[edit on 9-12-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Dutty_Rag
I too have heard many news stories from scientists suggesting that we are way past the point of no return in terms of global change.

Whether this is natural or man-made - cooling or warming - the climate is changing. That is obvious.. Look outside. In ten years the UK climate has changed dramatically.

The seasons here in the UK are practically unrecognisable and the weather changes on a sixpence. Its winter now, and today its about 1 degree outside. Tomorrow it could quite easily be a comfortable 10 degrees. FACT. This is happening.

But if we are past the point of no return, it seems stupid to start taking measures to reduce carbon etc etc - perhaps we should be putting effort into changing the way we live to adapt to our new world.

Build houses with thick stoney walls that maintain constant temperature all year round regardless of the frequency of temperature fluctuation outside, consider new methods of farming to ensure we can sustain agriculture as the climate changes.

It is a complete waste of resources to concentrate souly on 'global warming' - CO2 - carbon neutral, Ozone - all cliches turned into scientific celebrities by the media - just as benal and meaningless as Paris Hilton.

your post doesnt really make any sense...sorry...the climate has always changed and always will...

[edit on 9-12-2008 by alienesque]

Global warming is being seen in all forms across the globe! Here in British Columbia we have a classic example of the Pine tree beetle that for many decades was killed off in the winters from -40 temperatures for at least a three week period.......Not anymore. All you need to do is go for a drive and see the mountains here covered with brown outs (Dead Trees) The entire interior area of this province has been devestated and is being clear cut logged to try and eliminate this pest only for the scientists to find that beetle is now moving on to take all other evergreen trees as well.

Check this out: www.davidsuzuki.org...

I could list a hundred other items of concern including one mentioned in the original post in reagards to Perma frost melting. This alone will create enough methane to wipe us out for sure.

Can we stop this action.........Nope and all you have to do is see a satellite pic of S.E Asia to see why.

I fear for my kids futures.

well, that conference was about how to get more money for the pollution bussiness. no discussion on the subject, only giving some "evidence" on the global warming and a man behind it. and of course talks how much each country (read citizens, taxpayers) will pay to this new bussiness (unfortunatetly it will not replace all the others same gang is running for years - I name only holocaust bussiness for example).

all the scientists in opposition are not invaited of course.

and the facts I belive are different than presented in Poznan. the total carbon we produce as the human civilization is less than 4% of what nature is. the goal if achived will make the tempereture drop in next century of 0,001 C. so you decide if it is worth it.

it was going up and down for all the time. it will do so with or without our help.

the only difference is that we will allow tha t gangsters to take our money for it or not.

by the way, it is pretty coincident that the guy running the Earth Live project is the grandson of Rotschild.

Originally posted by unruly1
Can we stop this action.........Nope and all you have to do is see a satellite pic of S.E Asia to see why.

South East Asia is a large environmental concern mostly due to air pollution and the people living there. The race is on for cleaner energies and air to rememdy. As long as there's the push to progress, the future should be a better place. It's complacency for their condition that's devastating. Everyone yells, "We got to do something!" well, we're all ears. Apart from everything we're already doing, enlighten us.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by saint4God]

I think doesn't make sense is a rather bumbling generalisation and you miss my point.

The point is, the climate has changed forever - the reason we and other species are still here (or not) is that they adapt.

Over the past 1000 years (where we have good documented stats) the climate has changed a lot. People just got on with their lives. They didn't try and change things. They didn't even look to themselves as being the source of the problem.

If we didn't have complex and to be honest as a scientist, rather flimsy theories from both camps, putting humans at the source of the problem, we would no doubt think 'it's getting warmer - adapt - less clothes in summer, maybe move to somewhere cooler etc etc.. not sit, panic about how the world is ending and take stupid action such as 'offsetting our carbon footprints'.

The carbon myth is all about making $$$ nothing more. Carbon Dioxide is actually one of the least potent greenhouse gasses and in actual fact most 'unnatural sources' of it comes from agriculture rather than industry - certainly not from Joe Blogg's taking a 747 flight for his holiday in Paris.

This is happening, if you wanted to change it, fair enough, maybe you could have done if you had reduced all sources of greenhouse gasses back in 1900 - now it's too late - the shift is occurring. Deal with it.

Also - no one alive today will live to see the ice age or whatever catastrophe is being predicted. I can perhaps understand why industry and commerce care - it's the future of their businesses - but why the hell does Joe Bloggs on the street care - cutting carbon will NOT save your offspring, you have NO IDEA what the world would be like in 100 years time - crime is no doubt a larger threat than global warming. If the world ends the world ends and humanity is gone. Does it really matter when you think about it laterally?

Originally posted by saint4God
I'm a scientist, biochemist in the healthcare sector. We have a lot to look forward to in both medicines (should we continue the trend of the last 100 years) and environmental conditions (should we continue the trend of the last 5 years). The biggest problem our society faces is economic. Can we make healthcare affordable for everyone? Can we afford the transition to cleaner energies soon? Can we ensure employment? Can we fix credit? Retirement? As a former banker, these are of greater concern to me.


[edit on 9-12-2008 by saint4God]

First... I applaud your points.


Second.... So let me get this straight, you are currently working in the healthcare industry and are a former banker? Just more money to be made in healthcare? Trying to figure that one out.

1 volcano eruption puts out more carbon dioxide than man has in the last 100 years....

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
First... I applaud your points.

Thank you

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Second.... So let me get this straight, you are currently working in the healthcare industry and are a former banker? Just more money to be made in healthcare? Trying to figure that one out.

Looking back at it I'm stunned myself. Long story short I was offered full-time at MBNA, where I was working at during college (going for Bachelors in Biology degree). In 2005, MBNA was bought and 3/4 of my department was let go shortly thereafter. With the severence package I finished up my last few classes and applied for science jobs. I'm a bit bitter about banking as a whole, but have some ethical friends who are still 'fighting the good fight' in there.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by saint4God]

This is all All Gore's fault - An 'inconvenient goof'

Much like the completely unproven claims about global oil production peaking the global climate change ( formerly 'global warming' ) scenario rests on the basis that it could conceivably happen due to our actions. Both scenarios are being propagated by people who seem to stand most to gain financially ( Give me a few prominent names who can't aren't making money from it) and both depend entirely on western societies guilt ( at least the more enlightened parts of it) over their past and current imperial actions in the world. Basically peak oil and global climate change gains support trough media as produced by the very rich, to gain more control over our energy usage, for consumption by those rich enough to have time enough to read newspapers, listen to radios and stare at Tv screens.

What 'experts' in these field will NEVER offer you is solutions so as to keep raising standards of living ( very easily done ) without the use of oil or the pollution of our planet. What they will insist on is that living standards will have to be reduced ( ' The meek shall inherit the Earth', type promise ) for us to 'save' the environment despite the fact that about one billion people are chronically undernourished with some twenty odd thousand dying due to symptoms of it or outright starvation. The fact that this 15% of humanity will suffer far more than any other in this 'energy conservation' mode hardly seems to bother them as according to their 'data' we might somehow all be endangered by starvation despite the fact that almost all our grains grow better under warmer and higher humidity conditions.

Once one gets past the obvious 'this could in fact conceivably happen' shock and start looking at the official data ( not even that which have been checked independently) what you will find is plenty of speculation, heaps of twisted or ignored data, vast volumes filled with 'worse case scenarios ( yes your roof might somehow fall in on you tonight but do you sleep outside in fear?) and absolutely NO solutions that doesn't involve you giving up some percentage of the energy independence we are all in essence working towards.

Given all the legitimate problems humanity faces anyone who propagates either the peak oil scenario or the global climate change one is in my eyes just a elitist who can not bear to concern himself with anything other than the problems his class of people might face years down the road. People who do not lack so much in empathy and common sense can be found discussing the plight of those who are starving and or dying of totally preventable diseases TODAY.

This then is my request that legitimate concerns over the future survival of humanity be either greatly moderated with respect to both peak oil concerns ( it's at least fifty years away) and the global climate change which seems to change all on it's own, in directions of it's own choosing, despite our best efforts of capitalist to pollute the planet for personal gain.

We SHOULD fight to reduce industrial pollution not because it might hurt the environment but because we KNOW it reduces our quality of life or just kills us.

We SHOULD reduce your oil consumption but not to save the planet as much as to take that money and give it to people who are chopping down trees to boil their water, heat their homes or otherwise ensure their survival. If our focus is to help our fellow citizens and those of other countries better their living standards we will not only rob the fraction of one percent that gains wealth by destroying our environment from humans to exploit but will ensure that their are no place on earth for them to hide their destructive heavy industries from our view.

Despair is what they want you to feel and if they succeed in that and thus of slowly robbing you of energy independence, and thus independence of action, their destruction of this planet will only accelerate.

Stellar

People are getting fed up with scare mongering,i was watching bcc news 24 a couple of days ago and for once the presenter was questioning head of the uk green party with good questions about the other side of the coin that not all scientists are in agreement that man is influencing global warming

She WOULDN'T answer the questions,i wish i could find a video but its unlikely,she literally didnt answer any of the several valid points he brought up...i dont think she was expecting it,she immediately said this is irresponsible of the BBC to be asking these sorts of questions,we shouldnt be discussing if man is influencing global warming,all scientists are in agreement etc Its time to take action...i was furious!