A Birth Certificate Study - Mine

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


BH, I have done quite a bit of research on my family for genealogy purposes and even with official documents there can be errors in those documents.

For instance, my mothers birth certificate indicates that her father was born in Charleston West Virginia and his middle name was William, but on my Grandfathers birth certificate his middle name and birth place was different. The census records finally settled the matter.

Why did this happen, because he was not at the hospital when my grandmother had her 5th child and a neighbor gave the information on the birth certificate because it was a home birth and she was the mid-wife.

I have seen things crossed out and edited on the official records on some of the death certificates because information was found inaccurate after the fact or there was autospy that disputed the initial finding.

In the end the official record is the final say, unless there is a conflicting evidence between two official records such as my mothers and grandfathers birth certificate. In that case, you have to go to secondary evidence or additional official records such as BMV, marriage, death certificates, etc.

Maybe, I get the bug again to continue the family search, heck Obama is related to Dick Cheney, George W Bush, Barbara Bush, James Madeison, Gerald Ford and Harry Truman, not a bad set of genes. See link below!

Obama and others Cousins!

Good work! Mine looks like the first you showed. I'm old so it's old. It's the one the hospital gave my mother. If I lost it, the replacement would look like second one, a form filled in from the information on the "vault" one.

Mine says Birth Certificate has Gold seal stamped in it. I tried to scan it to give picture but I am not sure how to do this.

The original poster has all the information that is needed ....

On the original, the birth hosptal and doctors name and sig are included on the BC.

On the short form, these 2 key pieces of information are left off.

In BO's case, the seal is also missing. BO's mother could have had him in Kenya, and returned to HI and recorded his birth. If this is so, the hosp and Dr's name would be from Kenya... This is the information people want to see... The rest is not important.

That bottom line is, BO is makeing himself look guilty by avoiding this.... Hand over the BC and get it over with

Thanks for all the great answers!

Originally posted by Realtruth
Big difference between a "Certification of Live Birth" and a "Birth Certificate"

Do you have a real source that supports this? (Instead of some unknown guy in a video that you or I could have made ourselves?) It's an interesting idea, but I'm having a hard time believing there's any real difference between a "Certificate" and a "Certification". I'm certainly not going to just believe some guy who says so.

I'll do some research on it tomorrow, but if you have something else, you know, real and credible, I'd appreciate it.

Originally posted by Twilly
In BO's case, the seal is also missing.

No, it isn't. Look at the factcheck source in the OP. It's there. Or look here on Free Republic. About halfway down the page, there is a HUGE picture and the seal is clearly seen.

If you read the original post, you know the information on the COLB comes directly from the original birth certificate. So the birthplace does not change.

But this thread is not about whether or not Obama's birth certificate is real.

Impressive work, yet I do believe it is possible for some ATS members who are obviously far more advanced than most of the public and legal community, to come forward and prove that YOU were actually born in Kenya.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Impressive work, yet I do believe it is possible for some ATS members who are obviously far more advanced than most of the public and legal community, to come forward and prove that YOU were actually born in Kenya.

nice line...

I have the original Certificate of Live Birth issued to my parents after my birth in 1976. The scan came out pretty big so in the interest of thread load time I'm going to link to it:

Link here

It's old and faded and tattered. On the bottom is a raised seal (not very raised anymore), and the text next to it reads "I hereby certify that this is an exact copy of the record which is on file in the Department of Health Cleveland, Ohio," along with the date and an illegible, faded signature of whomever certified it.

I've used this certificate my entire life for everything from school registration to getting my driver's license - whatever's needed a birth certificate.

I guess we've got Ohio birth certificates covered...

Heretic,

Wrong state. Please show a copy of a Hawaiian Birth Certificate (not Ohio, and not a certification of live birth) issued during the year that Barry Soetoro was born. You compromised your argument by using the wrong state as an example. Michael Moore is laughing his fat ass off at you right now.

According to World Net Daily, Obama's handlers have spent over $50K to fight the lawsuits, whereby a $12 fee to the state of Hawaii would produce what is needed (or would it?).

I don't want to get into a flaming match with anyone, but let me give you the experience we had concerning most of our children, who were adopted from a Latin American country, and born there. After each adoption, we had several court appearances, and for each one, we needed a "birth certificate" issued by the state we lived in. That involved the foreign birth certificate being transferred (actually, a legal re-issue of the foreign birth certificate) to the state we lived in, at the time. That then became the vault copy for our children. Even after moving out of that state, when we needed birth certificates for registering our children for school, we had to write to the state we lived in for the copy. The copy lists the place of birth as the Latin American country, and has on it "State of xxxxxx".
Now, I don't know what the Hawaiian birth certificate indicates as the place of birth. Only seeing the vault copy would tell us that, and until that is given to someone who has authorization to see it, the man in the video is correct. Hawaiian officials have only said that they have his original Hawaiian birth certificate, but they did NOT state that he was born in Hawaii. A legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate could just as easily say he was born in Kenya.
Again, none of us know for sure.
For the future, it sure would be nice if EVERY candidate were required to produce their original birth certificate, or to have certified that the birth certificate does indicate place of birth. A lot of hot air could have been avoided. Personally, at this point, for the sake of the country, it would be best that the Supreme Court refuse to take the case. If McCain had won, we would have had the same problem, as several lawsuits were filed claiming that he does not fulfill the requirements.

I find "certification" is quite a loose word. In international terms, this word may bring some confusion.

In most cases, original document in its original form (having official seal & signature) requires further certification. (Other terms used like notarization, authentication or legalization)

The term legalize is mostly used when a certain original document to be used in other countries. Now, the other country won't just recognize a certain document (even original) without additional certification, authentication, notarization, legalization etc.)

The usual procedure, orignal document must be notarized by notary officer and the state secretary of that state will further authenticate by signing and attaching the official seal of a certain state.


Some documents even went as far as the office of secretatry of state (Condoleeza Rice) for certification (Signature & the official seal of the secretary of state) Before the Embassy of the country in which the document to be used certify it as authentic by stating that the signature & seal are indeed belong to the secrerary of state of US.

Going back to to "Certificate of Live Birth", in its original form, if I need to use it overseas or to have a certified copy, (A plain photocopy in most cases is not considered legal).

Instead of giving away the original Certificate of live birth, I would produce a certified true copy instead. It depends on the state, it comes in different forms. Certification of live birth is one. (Based on the original document record seen in the vault by the officer) By deafult you really can't get the government's copy. You can only get a certified true copy. for some reason, if the original copy (of the person) is lost or destroyed, one can get this certain form of certification (By releasing a certification based on the government record)





[edit on 6-12-2008 by searching_for_truth]

[edit on 6-12-2008 by searching_for_truth]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

The information on the COLB clearly states Obama was born on Honololu county in Oahu, which is the largest of the 3 islands making up Hawaii.

The COLB is an extract of the original birth certificate, and, as such, the data on it is exactly that on the original birth certificate.

When you pay for a birth certificate from Hawaii, what you get is the COLB.
You cannot obtain the long form of the birth certificate except at birth. Buy a copy of your birth certificate from Hawaii and you will get a COLB similar to the one Obama has shown.

So you do know where Obama was born. You just don't want to believe it.
Or worse, you want to spread false rumours.

reply to post by searching_for_truth

So you do know where Obama was born. You just don't want to believe it.

Did you READ my entire post? I was responding to the comments made on the video that was posted. Furthermore, I stated that personally, I hope the Supreme Court refuses to take the case, and in essence, let the issue rest. Furthermore, I never referred to the COLB, did I? My comments were directed at what was said on the video, and all I tried to indicate, was that based on what he said, you couldn't tell whether the birth certificate indicated WHERE he was born. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

I gave personal information about my family to add knowledge to the thread about HOW birth certificates from foreign countries become legal birth certificates in the US. My post was respectful, I flamed no one, yet you make comments which show complete lack of respect.
I applaud BH for posting this, and BH has been respectful, so why do you have to soil her thread with flaming?


This post was intended to be a reply to Kailassa, NOT searching_for_truth.
Apparently, one cannot edit the reply to name. I apologize to searching_for_truth, but I think it is clear that I posted Kailassa's statement, and that it was an error.

[edit on 6-12-2008 by ProfEmeritus]

[edit on 6-12-2008 by ProfEmeritus]

It never dawned on me how important a birth certificate is, and since how copies are accepted for drivers licenses, marriages, etc, how easy it would be to make a fake ID with a fake birth certificate.

Yet another identity theft thing to worry about.

***THOSE POSTING COPIES SHOULD OBSCURE IDENTIFYING INFORMATION: PLACE OF BIRTH, MOTHERS MAIDEN NAME, etc***

[edit on 6-12-2008 by Dbriefed]

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by searching_for_truth

 

So you do know where Obama was born. You just don't want to believe it.

Did you READ my entire post? I was responding to the comments made on the video that was posted. Furthermore, I stated that personally, I hope the Supreme Court refuses to take the case, and in essence, let the issue rest. Furthermore, I never referred to the COLB, did I? My comments were directed at what was said on the video, and all I tried to indicate, was that based on what he said, you couldn't tell whether the birth certificate indicated WHERE he was born. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

I gave personal information about my family to add knowledge to the thread about HOW birth certificates from foreign countries become legal birth certificates in the US. My post was respectful, I flamed no one, yet you make comments which show complete lack of respect.
I applaud BH for posting this, and BH has been respectful, so why do you have to soil her thread with flaming?

Why are you questioning Searching_for_truth's reading comprehension?
That really does show complete lack of respect if you ask me.

BH, I congratulate you on a well done research.

Mine is the long form, wrinkled and old , has some fancy signatures and says certificate of live birth. Even tells me who my daddy is.


Excellent job.

reply to post by Kailassa

Actually the reply was supposed to be to you. When I discovered the error, I tried to edit the reply to, and in fact, the preview, seemed to show it worked. However, when I posted the edit, it went back to the wrong party. I did not mean for the reply to be for search_for_truth, but to Kailassa. I'm sure you knew that since the quote was yours.

reply to post by Kailassa

So you do know where Obama was born. You just don't want to believe it.
Or worse, you want to spread false rumours.

Again, I apologize to searching_for_truth for the error.
Now, Kailassa, do you want to respond to MY question to YOU?
Specifically, how can you KNOW what I believe or want? I do not spread FALSE rumors. Nowhere in my post did I do that. Again, if you READ my entire post, you would see exactly what I was saying, and yes, if you came to the conclusion in your comment above, then you DO have a reading comprehension problem, and that is just a statement of fact, not a lack of respect. Your accusations, however, do show a lack of respect, and false logic to jump to the conclusion you made. WHERE in my post did I "spread false rumors"?

State of Georgia Certificate of Live Birth
places on cert for
Death Number
Local File Number
State File Number
Child name
Sex
Date of Birth
Time of Birth
This Birth (single, twin, etc)
If not single, specify birth order
City town or location of birth
Hospital/facility name
If not Hospital
County
Mother's name
maiden last name
date of birth
state of birth
residence
county
city
street address
mother mailing address
residence inside city limits
Father's name
Father's date of birth
Father Birth state
sig line
relation to child
release to SSA for SSN
Doc's sig line - as ceritfier
date signed
attendant at birth (if other than certifier)
Typed Doc name
Physician Medical Lic #
Doc mailing addy
Registrar
date received by local registrar
on the form it says State COPY under the registrar info

then the raised imprint with
"This si to certify that he above is a true reproduction of the original record on file with vital records service, Georgia Department of Human Resources. This certified copy is issued under the authority of chapter 31-10, vital records, code of Georgia
date, sig with
state registrar & custodian, Director, vital records service
(void without impressed seal or if altered or copied)

This is from my son's BC.

My BC is from Florida and much the same. But as I have posted somewhere in the forums before, my BC is full of false information. The mother's name and father's name are both completely falsified, and the doctor who signed off on it knew that it was falsified. There were reasons for what was done and I'll not drag people through the mud for doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. I was born in Miami, Florida at Jackson Memorial Hospital, not Hawaii or another country.