Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Remember, it's "ONLY" someone's "THEORY".

Being in the US, fully agree everyone has their right to their opinion, even if it is wrong.

exactly, how is it breaking news? The only thing it is, is a breaking opinion.. pfft

shouldn't this discussion go into global discussion or something like that?

2nd thread I have read today in the breaking news section, breaking news based upon the opinion of Russian Political analysts or professors... oh bla

sigh

[edit on 26-11-2008 by Thurisaz]

Let's see. the USSR broke up after being defeated in the Afghanistan and the fall of the Berlin Wall. The US will break up after being defeated in Afghanistan and the fall of Wall Street.

I see three countries, roughly based on a division of blue and red states: a blue West Coast, a blue Northeast, and a red Central and South.

Czechoslovakia underwent a similar breakup, dividing into a liberal, urban Czech Republic and the conservative, rural Slovakia. They did it peaceable, of course, without firing a shot. Hopefully, if we plan well, we can accomplish the same.

Oh geez... I haven't visited this site in a couple of years. After spotting this thread, it appears the Mensa members are still keeping their distance.

*

I'd be happy with just a split between northern and southern California. Those bay area liberals are completely out of control.

reply to post by titorite


So your going to leave Louisiana with the strategic oil reserves, the strategic nuclear base of Barksdale AFB, the oil refineries, and the Port of South LA- the 4th largest shipping port in the world and largest bulk cargo port in the world?

I can't imagine Texas not wanting LA. I'm pretty sure LA would be taken by Texas way before New Mexico or Oklahoma. The strategic sources here are the kind that start wars, if Texas didn't get to them first someone else would.

Blindness and ignorance are truly the only weapons left for the sheep.

Unlike Russia (and I am including the Soviet Union in the history of Russia), the United States never forced independent countries to become a part of the USA. Russia gobbled up, by force, Georgia, Ukraine, all of its Eastern areas, etc.

The Chinese in the West are a tiny minority, less than 3% of the population. They are not about to "revolt". As to Texas, it has more hispanics that any other state, so if any area went hispanic, Texas would be part of it.

But, the whole premise is based upon a flawed understanding of reality. This "scientist" bases his whole thesis on the model of the Soviet Union, which was never a stable state.

Keep on thinking like this folks. You display your ignorance when you do.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus



I am very happy you asked. The media is not going to tell the public what is really happening. Once the family farms are gone and the land sold to farm corporations there is no going back. That is what the Agri-Corporations are counting on.

I thought that the 2008 Farm Bill actually strengthened the position of the small and local farmer. Could you please explain how the new 2008 Farm Bill does what you claim will happen? Thanks. I'm not arguing with you, I just don't understand the background of your claims.

Unfortunately that is not the case, a few bone were throw to family farmers some window dressing added but not much else.. Farm subsidies are only for Commodity Crops like rice, cotton, corn, soybeans, and wheat. Most fruits and vegetables are not subsidized. The heavy subsidizing of grains make factory farming of animals competitive with grazing. Actually the subsidies are the reason for factory farms.

This is the real problem as you read it (please do it is at the core) picture granny with her laying hens, 4-H kids with their bunnies or sissy with her pony. It is on the horizon.
WTO "Guide to Good Farming Practices"
www.oie.int...

This site show intent: Safe and Secure Food Act of 2005 (first try at Good Farming Practices) www.govtrack.us...


On what is really going on in farming:
2007 Farm Policy by Food and Water Watch (gives background on the power plays)
www.foodandwaterwatch.org/food/agricultural-policy/us-farmbill/Farm%20Bill%20April%202007.pdf

The PEW has a corporate bias but they had a real hard time showing it. It is an in-depth analysis of farming in the US and factory farms come out looking very bad.
Short pew report: www.pewtrusts.org...

Full (125 pg) Pew report: www.pewtrusts.org...

Agriculture and Monopoly capital: findarticles.com...



Very good sites about the fight with LOTS of documents are arkansasanimalproducers.8k.com...
xstatic99645.tripod.com...


This is a must read so you understand how serious the threat is. The Henshaw incident reminds me of Hitler's Germany, very frightening.
nonais.org...

Farm subsidies in the United States go to just a handful of crops, corn, wheat, cotton, soybeans, and rice. Most fruits and vegetables are not subsidized, at least not directly but don't forget opportunity cost!

A Minnesota farmer complains that he cannot increase production of garden crops by growing them on former-program crop land because these acres will lose their corn subsidy forever if non-program crops are grown on the land for a year.

Why? Because national fruit and vegetable growers based in California, Florida and Texas fear competition from regional producers like myself. Through their control of Congressional delegations from those states, they have been able to virtually monopolize the country’s fresh produce markets.

...In other words, it seems that non-program crop states have been willing to support continued subsidies for program crop states because they are facing less competition in return. Less competition, higher prices and more money.

The Farm Bill is estimated to cost $289 billion over a five-year period. Of this, about $200 billion goes to domestic food aid. Commodity-based subsidies for rice, cotton, corn, soybeans, wheat and other crops will take up $43 billion. Crop insurance will be about $23 billion, and conservation programmes will have $27 billion....

However, under the farm bill, even millionaires can receive the hand-outs. For direct payments, those with individual farm income up to $750,000 or $1.5 million income for married farmers are eligible for subsidies. Those with non-farm incomes up to $500,000 (or $1 million for married farmers) can also get the subsidies. A Congress member said this means a family with income up to $2.5 million could still receive subsidies. Overview of 2008 farm bill www.cfra.org...

Millionaire farmers continue to pluck crop subsidies they don't deserve, federal investigators say. 11/24/2008 www.miamiherald.com...


For a look in to US farming's future, this is what will happen. The proposed regs are similar since the original with WTO and other International Organizations

North Farm is the last working dairy farm left for miles. Mr Lawton said: "... all my neighbours have given up. It's become incredibly bureaucratic and it's completely over-powered by bureaucrats - there must be two civil servants in Defra (Department for the Environment and Rural Affairs) for every farmer in the countryside.". ...The sheer amount of paperwork and restrictions on what farmers can do is a problem - it takes up around 60 per cent of Mr Lawton's time. "It's difficult particularly for us family farms who don't have a huge staff for administration," he said .www.thisisswindon.co.uk...

Originally posted by OldMedic
Unlike Russia (and I am including the Soviet Union in the history of Russia), the United States never forced independent countries to become a part of the USA. Russia gobbled up, by force, Georgia, Ukraine, all of its Eastern areas, etc.

No US never forced Iraq, Afghanistan and a sh!tloads of other unstable countries into their own country, they just invaded it and called it a democracy..... come on OM, get a grip on the situation before trying to make people believe that US never was like Ussr...

And i for one also see US breaking up, maybe not like the scientist in question talks about, but i see US dropping down on its knees in near future, all it takes is to wipe the country´s economy, and US government are doing that at the moment, first with the 700 billion $ help package and now they are doing it again this time with an 800 billion $ package. If that aint called "going all in" then i dont know what its called...

Best regards.

Loke.

reply to post by JanusFIN

Panarin, 60, is a professor at the Diplomatic Academy of the Russian Ministry for Foreign Affairs, and has authored several books on information warfare."

I think that about says it all, doesn't it? Information warfare. That is all this supposed prediction is.

reply to post by Loke.


Loke I love your enthusiasm but darned if I can make heads or tails out of what you are trying to say.

Are you speaking from hard cold facts or is this an opinion could you elaborate?



Actually that already happened once it was called the civil war and now that possibilty is very unlikely you need to really travel and meet the rest of the American population to learn why the idea of breaking up is plain stupid!

again travel america more to understand why this is highly unlikely!


[edit on 27-11-2008 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by JanusFIN


Ever hear of John Titor and his US made up of 5 regions with 5 presidents? Maybe I've asked this before. A Federation of America that also included Canada and Mexico. It'll never happen, right?

reply posted on 8-12-2003 @ 02:10 AM by FoxStriker


PS, sorry for the long wait to response.

US wont make it through the next 100 years unless it becomes a Military Federation.

USA in my opinion will experience the 2nd Civil War against Cali, Mex, and Europe most likely and states surrounding Cali, and possibly Florida.

US Dollar is useless, (just watch) The next superpower or continuing super power will have to master the art of Computer Trading or Future Investing, (likely winners, Germany, France, Japan, China, India, South Africa, Mexico, Brazil, Russia, and to a lesser extent Canada.

But US war on Iraq is the first step in saving the US from such a fate.

Posted this in 8/03.... I still see a possibility of this happening, Lived through the LA Riots.... we riot just about for everything, lol

reply to post by SLAYER69


First part was an ironic answer for threadstarter...

Second part is purely my own speculation. I just see US government pouring money into a system which is in failure, i believe it is the wrong people who gets the money, i am having a hard time to understand how a company in the market of free economics has to rescued. Pure capitalism let only the strongest survive in business.

The money should have been put into the people instead, healthcare, a viable public transport system(to ease off the gas over usage) and education instead off beating a dead horse.

Best regards.

Loke.

reply to post by JanusFIN


Seems to me , he's been watching to much of the movie RED DAWN

reply to post by crimvelvet


Thanks for all of the information. It was very enlightening. I appreciate your work and research. I understand where you're coming from now, and I agree with your concerns.

---I mean, what should I take as a more serious indicator of impending doom? The predictions of somebody whose job is to predict bad things about us? Or the clowns who write horoscopes?----

Its unfortunate that you cannot ask Ronald Regan why his whole adminastration where following the advice of an Astrologer.....every banking system and leaders of the worlds elite HIRE ASTROLOGERS....thats a fact....some people are so Niave....they are called advisors in corporate terms...and its your corporations that run the show....do you think a corporation cares about the people when profit is at hand....they are international in scope....America is a small portion of wealth compared to the wealth of old Europe and the Vatican....the axis of evil is...the Vatican..the Bank of England (Rothchilds)..the US Federal Reserve (Rockerfellers)...none of these organizations answer to any governmental body...none of them....

The problem is..that the US still consider Russia there enemy...Why? They are not as agressive as the US in international bumbling...they do not force there agenda over oceans to other lands...they seemed to be more concerned with whose immediatly around them...and that was the opinion of One Man...suddenly all of Russia thinks the US is going crash....does anyone in the US really do the thinking part....many of those Right Wingnuts have created a generalization of the Russians....then all there base believers soak it in like they are sponges....

You consume more than you produce....you import more than you export...what do you thinks going to happen....a collapse...and all because of Free Trade and unfair trade so that your corporations can make the profit...while the people are handed a finacial bubble and massive debt....oh yea it happend before and we survived.....but not to this degree....its not a banking game going on here....its a game of divide and conquer....the international elitist are afraid of your constitution...its called freedom....you can't have control of the economy and freedom at the same time....that way people matter. Your military people are expendable with there stupid wars...the family farm is dwindling so that corporate control of the agricultural industry is in the hands of international banksters and gangsters.....manufacturing is almost dead in the Auto industry and your buying crap from China that can posion you children....your eating foods laced with preservatives and drained of there natural nutrition by processing it...contaminated food from Mexico and China....next it will be to radiate your food for your own safety...more loss of nutrition....you flouride your water which make you docile...used by Hitler in the concentration camps to pacify the imprisoned...while Europe has banned flouride in there water...your Right wingnuts have a Flag up there butts and stars in there eyes but still cannot see the forest from the trees because of overly emplified nationalism to the border of Fascism....G H W Bush and Alan Greenspan have both been knighted by the Queen of England for there support of the British Monetary system that you have in the US and in Canada...Imagine a President bowing down before the Queen of England...Imagine that!!!!!

Apparently Haliburton has now moved there offices to Dubai to be near Dick Chenny when he retires...to avoid prosecution...go figure...who will be left to run the country for you guys now...We should all move to Dubai and visit DC Dickie.....Meanwhile you focus your attention on some RUSSIAN commie fagot that many of you still believe..While your country is bailing out the banks and taking on the bad mortgages therefore becoming property owner.....sounds a like communistic to me...the state owning all the property.....your more communist than the Russians.... in case you didn't know Income tax is Communistic...your totally controled by the media BS....90% of the media in the US is owned by 5 corporations....those 5 corprations are part of a bigger corporate entity.....

What ever happened to a people who individually had the right to self governing...that the government were representatives of the people and not the leaders of the people...Why is it now that you vote in leaders instead of representatives.....lost sheep syndrome...a Public Fool system that leaves children behind....India now produces more brilliant acedemics and scientist and genius than the total population of the US and Canada combined...and we want free trade....Whats wrong with being protectionist and Isolationist if it represents a self sufficent sustainable economy....

I often wonder how many shills are on these forums.....

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I realize the Banking crisis, Global Warming and the rest have grab the head lines. It is interesting the grab for control of the food supply has received no coverage in the last three years despite the screaming of Farmers. Please help spread the word so TPTB can not fool the public into OKing a system that wipes out independent farming in the USA. A Cartel controling our oil and the WTO exporting our jobs was bad enough.

reply to post by crimvelvet

It is interesting the grab for control of the food supply has received no coverage in the last three years despite the screaming of Farmers. Please help spread the word so TPTB can not fool the public into OKing a system that wipes out independent farming in the USA. A Cartel controling our oil and the WTO exporting our jobs was bad enough.

I wholeheartedly agree. The independent farmers helped build this country. The Agro-corps have bought Congress out. This is another example of corporations,not middle America, really running America .

I think the professor has been smoking something called "wishful thinking on his part" he is way off of his analysis of the United States. I think we have more cohesion than most countries and I would bet that the probability that Russia and China will break into other countries, i.e. Siberia, Outer Mongolia, Irkusk, Manchuria, Tibet, etc.