Chemtrails Over Portland OR 23/11/08

reply to post by Phage


The vortex effect off wingtips on the car's spoiler can also occur on aircraft and also leave contrail! It is very similar, if not the same thing! You can really see it on humid days on take-off or landing.

I forgot that one thing that didn't make sense to me when I took the pictures was that there was another airplane around the same altitude and it wasn't leaving a trail at all. It may have been going a little bit slower but its very hard to tell.

Why would 2 airplanes around the same altitude not have the same effect with a contrail ?

Originally posted by whoshotJR
I forgot that one thing that didn't make sense to me when I took the pictures was that there was another airplane around the same altitude and it wasn't leaving a trail at all. It may have been going a little bit slower but its very hard to tell.

Why would 2 airplanes around the same altitude not have the same effect with a contrail ?

How did you measure them to know they were at the same or around the same altitude?

The air up there is not consistant. It can change all over, thus the reason why trails stop and go, never show up or last for long periods of time.

Originally posted by whoshotJR
I forgot that one thing that didn't make sense to me when I took the pictures was that there was another airplane around the same altitude and it wasn't leaving a trail at all. It may have been going a little bit slower but its very hard to tell.

Why would 2 airplanes around the same altitude not have the same effect with a contrail ?

You'll have to talk to Phage about that. He seems to be the resident expert on why one plane will leave a trail lasting for hours and another will only last for seconds.

My guess is that they are two entirely different things.

One is vapor and one is aerosolized chemicals

[edit on 26-11-2008 by marsha law]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


I'm sure you know how I guessed the altitude..... a tape measure! or my eye's.....( sarcastic questions get sarcastic reply's)

If its because of inconstancy in the atmosphere why were all the other contrails solid but that one didn't produce any?

I'm neutral currently on this topic but I don't really get why the people against chem trails are so attacking.

Originally posted by marsha law

Originally posted by whoshotJR
I forgot that one thing that didn't make sense to me when I took the pictures was that there was another airplane around the same altitude and it wasn't leaving a trail at all. It may have been going a little bit slower but its very hard to tell.

Why would 2 airplanes around the same altitude not have the same effect with a contrail ?

You'll have to talk to Phage about that. He seems to be the resident expert on why one plane will leave a trail lasting for hours and another will only last for seconds.

My guess is that they are two entirely different things.

One is vapor and one is aerosolized chemicals

[edit on 26-11-2008 by marsha law]

If yall are truly interested in TRUTH....then please go here and read:

ATS LINK - Real Contrail Science, why they persist and why they spread out and why they are not chemtrails


[edit on 11/26/2008 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by GenRadek


You're right. But it is the contrails formed by the exhaust that persist.

Originally posted by marsha law

Originally posted by whoshotJR
I forgot that one thing that didn't make sense to me when I took the pictures was that there was another airplane around the same altitude and it wasn't leaving a trail at all. It may have been going a little bit slower but its very hard to tell.

Why would 2 airplanes around the same altitude not have the same effect with a contrail ?

You'll have to talk to Phage about that. He seems to be the resident expert on why one plane will leave a trail lasting for hours and another will only last for seconds.

My guess is that they are two entirely different things.


One is vapor and one is aerosolized chemicals

[edit on 26-11-2008 by marsha law]

The problem is you don't know if they are the same altitude. They are actually at different altitudes and laterally separated also. Layers of cold air change and so does an individual layer that is perhaps colder at one edge of the layer.

Please don't refer to them as chemtrails they do not exist they are called contrails.

reply to post by whoshotJR


The atmosphere can be very different in two places quite close together. Heck - we all know that winds, temperatures, pressures, and humidity are not the same across the whole world at once, so clearly different parts of the sky are going to be at different temperatures, with different winds, pressures, humidity, etc.

So you can even have two planes flying next to each other (separated by hundreds of feet), on the same altitude, with different jet engines (which produce different exhaust temperatures) causing different types of contrail - and get this - one might not even produce a contrail!

It's basic science.

I'd really be quite upset if I saw you fall to the dark side in this discussion. If you can just stay rational, if you can just hold out for concrete evidence before believing in something, you'll be alright. Unfortunately not everyone does that, which would explain why some folks believe in chemtrails, in the complete absence of any evidence at all.

Please continue to deny ignorance. Keep a rational head on you, and you'll find the truth. And if chemtrails are real, you'll be in the best position to do something about it. If you lower your standards of evidence from "scientific" to "gut-feeling", you won't ever know if what you know is the truth or just a fabrication, no matter how well-meaning.

reply to post by dave420


Dude? Who's being naive here? Read your own papers.

"NaturalNews) A TV news report from Germany available at: (www.youtube.com...) confirmed that the German Military is manipulating the climate in Germany. As a result scientists have filed a lawsuit against the government for climate manipulation.

The video concludes, “We can state with a 97% certainty that we have on our hands chemical trails (chemtrails) comprised by fine dust containing polymers and metals,..."







edit to add quotation marks



[edit on 26-11-2008 by marsha law]

[edit on 26-11-2008 by marsha law]

here is a smaller photo of two planes side-by-side

On the left we have an Airbus A340
On the right a Boeing 707.

We can see, two different engines, two different outcomes.

reply to post by marsha law


well that vid was dropped fast.

I can only assume you are referring to the story of chemtrails in Germany? Yes I have seen that video. And it has already been debunked because the person/s who made the "translation" lied and said its about chemtrails when the whole thing was about CHAFF. Chaff is not a chemtrail.

Originally posted by GenRadek



here is a smaller photo of two planes side-by-side

On the left we have an Airbus A340
On the right a Boeing 707.

We can see, two different engines, two different outcomes.

OK now show me that same area 5 hours later.
Has that contrail spread out into a cloud of gook?

reply to post by marsha law


What you ask is impossible really.
Ask the people that were doing the tests of the Airbus.

Once again if you were paying attention, it all depends on the surrounding conditions. If there was a front coming in then, maybe. If it was during the winter, maybe as well.

But here you have a clear view of two actual planes at the exact same altitude, one with a contrail, one without.

Here are more photos and explanations on contrails:
ryanthepilot.blogspot.com...
though you may want to scroll down lower to get to the contrails.

reply to post by GenRadek


Again, a picture makes no sense unless you compare it to the condition of the con/chemtrail hours later.

Real contrails don't last for hours. If you see one that does, try to find out which plane left that trail.
You will find that the information is not available.

reply to post by marsha law


Yes, they do. Contrails CAN last for hours.
Scientists acknowledge it. Meteorologists acknowledge it. Bomber pilots acknowledge it. Climatologists acknowledge it. Why do you deny it, in face of tons of facts and proof that they do?

So why don't they last for hours? Can you explain why they can't? Meteorologically speaking, explain how it is unable to do so regardless of atmospheric conditions. Because if you believe this, be sure to back it up with some actual facts that have been tested, studied, observed and agreed upon by the meteorological, aeronautical, and physics professionals that study and understand these things. If you can find something from reputable sources that says and corroborates what you claim, I'm all ears.

Plus I'd suggest you take a look at this site on contrails and watch how this guy actually flies right up alongside a contrail left by another passenger jet .
ryanthepilot.blogspot.com...

[edit on 11/26/2008 by GenRadek]

Here we have another condensation phenomenon that occurs. Same principle as contrails. So, for fun, what are these:




If anyone bothered to read the PDF link on condensation will know.

[Apologies for it being so darn big!]

[edit on 11/26/2008 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek


That picture reminds me of the fact that clouds have become really weird in general over the last ten years.

What I mean is I don't remember clouds that looked like they were leaking or clouds that look like a paisely pattern really high in the sky.

here are some strange/weird clouds images.google.com...


edit to fix link




[edit on 26-11-2008 by marsha law]

reply to post by GenRadek



I know, I know! Ship Track clouds!

What did I win? Something cool, I hope?

reply to post by marsha law


Oh yeah.
They do look pretty weird and cool!
But meteorologically speaking, they aren't "new" or different.
Most of what I see there are lenticular clouds, mammatus clouds, and cloud banks.
All pretty typical stuff found in certain regions where they form.

Lenticulars usually form in mountainous areas. Mammatus form on the underside of anvil clouds of big storms.
I found the one with the hole in the cloud most interesting, there is a name for it. I'll try to find it.


Rare, but not extraordinary.

To be honest, I think you are noticing these things more since you are looking up more. Usually as a kid you really don't think of looking up at these things or not even paying attentions. Once you start to pay attention, you will find a host of seemingly weird, strange, and cool things. On the whole, they've always been around, its just that you didn't notice them as much back then.

Also, chemtrails have nothing to do with creating these clouds! They are always there and people study and understand how they happen. HAARP isnt doing it, and neither are chemtrails!

[edit on 11/26/2008 by GenRadek]