Chemtrails Over Portland OR 23/11/08

reply to post by Chaos3003


In humid air, when it's cold enough, contrails will form behind jets. It doesn't matter about how much rainfall occurs in the region - as long as the air is cold enough, a contrail will form. It's well-known, highly-understood basic science.

reply to post by Chaos3003


CONtrails are not CHEMtrails. Chemtrails do not exist except in the minds of people who have nothing better to do all day then make things up.

My take on this (and I am on the fence) is:

1) If chemtrails for NWO then only explanation would be a binary else all (inc NWO) would be affected.
2) Could be as other posts that state they are trying to control climate via chemicals, hence seeing more of them.
3) Climate is changing (either warming or cooling) but either way it's getting colder 'up there' (and at different levels - i.e. low and high atmosphere), hence we are seeing far more trails due to the fact water is freezing much more.

Im edging on the number 3 at the mo but will never rule out others...

reply to post by AlwaysQuestion


You left out at least one:

4) A dramatic worldwide increase in air traffic.

Which is the only one with any evidence.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by Phage]

Once again, SHOW US SOME EVIDENCE!!! I have not seen a single shred of evidence that show proof of the existence of chemtrails. That circular argument is,to me, the last resort of a an unfounded theory.

It's quite the most ridiculous conspiracy. I don't think the chemtrailers understand just how complex and unpredictable the atmosphere is. Two planes could be flying along with just a few thousand feet separating them (a distance impossible to tell with the naked eye) and their contrails might look totally different due to the difference in the air between them. I found it absolutely hilarious in one of the videos when it showed 1 "chemtrail" that was obviously produced at a few thousand feet, and then one from a plane that was cruising at around 35,000ft - and (gasp) they looked completely different

And what about the logistics of the whole chemtrail operation? How do they cover up such a huge operation? Why have none of these many, many planes ever been filmed? The best we get is a few pics of research planes or tankers

I can't say one way or the other, and perhaps don't have much to add.

But I can say that after a lifetime in the auto racing biz, and attending a ton of races, that I have seen cars leave trails. On a cool humid day many times you will see 2 trails on the tips of the rear air foil, more so in hard fast corners when air pressure is at it's most.

We are talking speeds from 150 -200, I can only imagine the effect at altitude, and at higher speeds would produce what we see in the sky.

Originally posted by AlwaysQuestion
My take on this (and I am on the fence) is:

1) If chemtrails for NWO then only explanation would be a binary else all (inc NWO) would be affected.

Not if they don't already have the cure for the diseases they might be spreading.

Originally posted by SlickSpeed
I can't say one way or the other, and perhaps don't have much to add.

But I can say that after a lifetime in the auto racing biz, and attending a ton of races, that I have seen cars leave trails. On a cool humid day many times you will see 2 trails on the tips of the rear air foil, more so in hard fast corners when air pressure is at it's most.

We are talking speeds from 150 -200, I can only imagine the effect at altitude, and at higher speeds would produce what we see in the sky.

That is a different effect.

What you are seeing is caused by the vortex which is generated off of the tip of the airfoil. It is the condensation (caused by the high pressure in the core of the vortex) of the water vapor that is present in the air and as soon as the vortex dissipates it disappears.

Contrails are composed of ice crystals and depending on the atmospheric conditions last from minutes to hours. They require the water vapor present in the engine exhaust to form. In some cases they continue to expand and form layers of cirrus clouds.

www.colorado.edu...

[edit on 25-11-2008 by Phage]

Question wouldnt chemtrails also obey the same rules of contrails formation?? if in fact chemicals were being sprayed wouldnt they also form the same way\similarly as contrails??? so how could you possibly know they aren't chemtrails?? To all debunkers how would you know they are NOT chemtrails? is there some special characterstic that you know that are inherit when a plane sprays vs a traditional contrail??? I would like one of you weatherman to answer that.. and please don't just say chemtrails don't exist.... Just imagine a plane has sprayed a chemical above 27,000 feet... how would those chemicals react in the atmosphere differently so that you "specialist" would know the difference.... seeing as how you know so much about contrail formation.. would like some input on the above..

[edit on 26-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]

[edit on 26-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]

reply to post by Zaphod58


so you are inmplying that a b17 produces the same amount of hydrocarbon particles as a modern day jet............???????

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by thefreepatriot

 

No it isn't. If you have a static fuel leak, then fuel puddles in the engine, hot exhaust hits it, huge smoke cloud. But when pressurized the fuel doesn't leak, no smoke at all.

L1011 in flight, no smoke:


L1011 engine start:


Engine start doesn't really prove anything, except whether you have a static fuel leak. Yes, some engines do run dirtier than others, but it doesn't prove whether it's going to leave a smoke trail, or whether it is going to leave more contrails or not.

The old B-52s and Canberra bombers used to use a shotgun shell to start the engine. Left a huge smoke cloud, but once they were airborne, they didn't smoke THAT badly.

Jesus ... its not about the smoke itself... its the particles emmited by the engine that produce the contrails... engines startup does show you how dirty the exhaust.. its not about the SMOKE its about the particles that produce the SMOKE.. smoke is a good indicator of how dirty a combustion method is and fuel......it is COMMON knowledge that an old B17 will produce allot more dirty exhaust then a modern day jet...more dirty= more particles... at high altitudes this equals to MORE CONTRAILS........STOP THE INSANITY!!! t

The main products of hydrocarbon fuel combustion are carbon dioxide and water vapour. At high altitudes this water vapour emerges into a cold environment, and the local increase in water vapour can push the water content of the air past saturation point. The vapour then condenses into tiny water droplets and/or deposits into ice. These millions of tiny water droplets and/or ice crystals form the vapour trail or contrails. The energy drop (and therefore, time and distance) the vapour needs to condense accounts for the contrail forming some way behind the aircraft's engines. The majority of the cloud content comes from water trapped in the surrounding air.[citation needed] At high altitudes, supercooled water vapour REQUIRES a trigger to encourage deposition or condensation. The exhaust PARTICLES in the aircraft's exhaust act as this TRIGGER, causing the trapped vapour to rapidly turn to ICE CRYSTALS. Exhaust vapour trails or contrails usually occur above 8000 metres (26,000 feet). where the temperature is below -40°C (-40°F).


Obviously a B17 will encourage more deposition and condensation because there allot more particles causing the vapour to turn into ice... .... So please admit a B-17 does produce a hell of a lot more contrails at high altitudes and get on to somthing else..

Originally posted by rocksarerocks
reply to post by Chaos3003

 

CONtrails are not CHEMtrails. Chemtrails do not exist except in the minds of people who have nothing better to do all day then make things up.

Sounds like exactly what the goverment would want you to beleive.. thats all in your mind..

Also B17s have somthing called propellors.. instead of making a nice thin exhaust stream like jets.... its spread out wide.. more food for tought

hey,

Portland Native here... I notice these trails all the time but they did seem more predominant on the 23rd... i was always under the impression that they were caused by commercial aircraft, which explains why:

1. They are seen all over the world

and

2. They mostly appear over populated areas

i know ATS is here for people to share ideas, but really, i mean, you have to be the biggest f'ing retard in the world to *Actually* believe that the government is *Spraying* chemicals over cities.

Christ

reply to post by Phage


Hey no sarcasm or nothing just you seem to be the leader in the way for debunking in this thread here is all....

Yes the links I posted was on the chem and bio testing is simply informing that the governments are able and capable of non consenual testing regardless of there medium to do so..... so as I said the likelyhood to me for them to do some airborne dispersal is such as I wouldn't put it past them......

Have you watched the documentary Holes in Heaven by chance just curious? Electrical engineers and physicists etc make a compelling statement into the current and full potential of the HAARP program.
Also it is one of Nikola Teslas pieces of technology he began to develop isn't?

And as it stands Im not a full on believer just slighty on the side that I could see them doing such and so I'm looking into all avenues as to why they would do somethihng as such.....and If nothin tangible comes up I'll sit evenly back on the middle as anything is possible.



Perhaps with your forte in such abundace of knowledge, no sarcasm your well knowledgable and are able to turn up good sources....

Could you possibly find evidence of the pubically accepted forms of chemical air dispersal....... from Cloud seeding to Crop dusting....

I'll see what I can Find as well....

Peace




[edit on 26-11-2008 by GodshipForAll]

reply to post by Phage


Very true and agree. But even without the increase, trails do appear/linger for longer which is intriguing and think could be atmospheric changes....

reply to post by dave420


Im curios Ive lived in the N.W.T and seen flights land and Take off in all temperatures up to minus 50 even..........is it possible to see contrails from take off and straight into landing off the craft?