Ineresting discussion I had with a Homeland Security agent

Originally posted by KMFNWO

A BW buddy of mine who I questioned about O'reillys treatment of Professor Fetzer was answered by "I think people who don't know what they are talking about should just shut their effing mouths and let "this thing" run its course".

I'm taking that advice to it's absolute.

-

Just because someone works for homeland security does not make them the enemy.
Remember these people usually take on these jobs to try and make a difference, there are a few bad apples and they must follow orders, but people in general are usually decent people.
If he was leaving the store and felt a genuine hint of humanity and actually liked the OP as a person even after such a brief encounter, he may have been willing to at least give the OP a bit of a heads up on what is going to go down.
Shop keepers are going to be some of the first hit in times of trouble, whenever you see rioting, looting takes place.

One hypothesis for this encounter is that this guy's job is to create the socioeconomic climate for said riots and civil unrest to manifest. By now the more astute will have realised that the PTB need the chaos to consolidate, so my guess is they have lots of people out there spreading unrest, in the hopes of tipping the boat, so to speak, into a period of civilian unrest needed to implement a tighter control grid, a police state, which is what the banks need to foreclose and consolidate on their fraudulent dealings.

People lie and manipulate almost constantly, it always pays to think that things aren't always what they seem and that a lot of people have agendas. As a shop worker the OP would be a prime target for this seeding.

After all, for a storm all that is needed is a butterfly's wings.

On the contrary the "seeding the OP"

I interpret the statement (paraphrasing)
get a shot gun because there will be riots

was a forewarning to aid the OP with inside information for his safety.
I would presume the rioting would be over food and supply shortage and you will need to protect your stock.
A starving person will have the perfect motive, Survival;
and most likely will not be disueded by mere words.

Originally posted by munkey66
Just because someone works for homeland security does not make them the enemy.
Remember these people usually take on these jobs to try and make a difference, there are a few bad apples and they must follow orders, but people in general are usually decent people.
If he was leaving the store and felt a genuine hint of humanity and actually liked the OP as a person even after such a brief encounter, he may have been willing to at least give the OP a bit of a heads up on what is going to go down.

Munkey - Exactly!!! Having been in law enforcement, I can tell you that the OP's story rings true in every aspect. Whether its Feds, State, or County, cops are cops. Some will talk about stuff, some won't.

The officer in question was apparently the former.

[edit on 22-11-2008 by mckyle]

[edit on 22-11-2008 by mckyle]

reply to post by manoffewwords


Yea I agree.

The National Gaurd at Kent State were under flower power attack. They had no option but to mow down a few young US citizens.


RCMP are like that two...remember the guy last year in handcuffs in jail they shot in the head...yep he was a severe threat. (BC)

Oh yeah...the visitor to Canada from East Europe last year, coming to visit his mama...yea he could'nt speak a lik of English so they tazed him right there in the airport and killed him....

OH...I forgot about the 16 year old kid in Winnipeg who had a shiney thingy that they thought might be a knife so they shot him in front of his parents....yep

or the guy down in LA who thought somebody was robbing his house...no..just cops...they shot him, not dead, they just shot him, cuffed him and let him bleed to death in front of his family.....

I could go on and on but I think my point is made.....

side note on the cop who killed the guy at the airport...He got a little drunk a few weeks ago...killed a guy with his car while driving drunk...fled the scene of the accident to take his kids home...drove back after calling his cop buddies and now well..he is doing alright. The guy on the bike is dead but the cop is doing fine.

[edit on 22-11-2008 by whiteraven]

posted twice???



So as not to waste space...I want to say to be sure to give cops discounts as they are here to protect and serve those who pay them.

Turned cop rant off..

It sounds to me like the Homeland Security guy was just messing around with you.

Probably wanted to put the fear of goverment in you.

[edit on 22-11-2008 by whiteraven]

think about it,if the guy had top secret clearance no way would he show it to some unknown person,any ID he would have that was top secret would be coded on his ID,was probably airport security dude trying to impress you ,these people make a point of staying anonomus

I have met people from many different government agencies. I will say that Homeland Security seems to hire the most uneducated people I have ever seen. They tend to be people who believe the title of "Homeland Security" makes them more important. They love to flash their title. I believe this guy was legit and just spouting off the mouth in order to feel big and in the know. I always take what they say to me and drum it down about 30%. I wouldn't worry or believe anything he says. Homeland Security is the poor man's CIA and FBI.

Originally posted by s0ndernet
He got you an arab-american to admit to owning a gun(s), and 'being ready' with it.
And he fed you a story about, what you would assume to be a trained airplane hijacker now living in New York who was being followed by FBI and DHS....
IS NO LONGER BEING FOLLOWED

Now all they have to do is keep their eyes and ears open and see where this story shows up.
If it pops up on some terrorist board somewhere saying 'all clear' then they know YOU are an inside man on terror plot and they know the man they were following in NY is as well.
If it ends up on ATS....the FBI and DHS just wasted a time and effort dishing another story to an arab-american they are investigating or see as a potential threat?


(I hope you dont see this view of your story as racist on my part im telling the concept from the perspective of a government agent who thinks the worst of everyone. peace)
[edited to remove quote]

[edit on 22-11-2008 by s0ndernet]

I'm second generation. My fathers side has been here since the late 1800's and my mothers side has been in the states for 50+ years. I was born here, I don't have an accent, I'm catholic, most of my great uncles fought in WWII, all of my uncles (dad's side) served in the military, If DHS were going to send an agent to a store to get gun ownership information, why the hell would they come looking for me? That comment is so far beyond silly, I think it has gone plaid. All of my guns are legally owned and registered all they have to do is pull up the list. Doesn't take a DHS agent with nefarious intentions to squeak that kind of info out of me.

On the contrary the "seeding the OP" I interpret the statement (paraphrasing) get a shot gun because there will be riots was a forewarning to aid the OP with inside information for his safety.

Is it really all that "inside" I've been saying it for a couple of years now that the world is going to hell in a hand basket. I guess there are a lot of sheeple out there with eyes closed and oblivious to their surroundings, enough so, that the information could be viewed as inside, but personally, I don't think it was any great revelation.

I think it's important to keep in mind that government or law enforcement employees are people too, and often voice personal opinions or suspicions regardless of whether they have any validity or foundation in anything other than their own feelings. Someone complaining about government beuracracy and expressing the opinion that it might be wise to own a weapon because they feel riots may be looming at some point in the future doesn't have to constitute insider knowledge. It may very well have simply been their personal opinion of the way things are going these days. They were presumably off duty, after all. They wouldn't be shopping while on duty in my opinion because they could requisition what they needed (at least I would imagine so.)

That said, as always, absolutely anything is possible and this is still highly interesting to me regardless. Let's hope he's wrong.

Originally posted by DocMoreau
The 'See ID' on the back of the credit card makes this feel a bit weird.

He created a situation that enabled him to show you those IDs. He could have paid cash. He could have shown you a driver's license, which is what "he should have done".

In fact, SEE ID is "not legal" per se.
usa.visa.com...

If the card has a “See ID” in place of a signature…



Request a signature. Ask the cardholder to sign the card and provide current government identification, such as a driver's license or passport (if local law permits).
Check the signature. Be sure that the signature on the card matches the one on the transaction receipt and the additional identification.
If the signatures appear reasonably the same and the authorization request is approved, go ahead and complete the transaction.

I have a gut feeling that you were a victim of some sort of fraud or social engineering. You felt compelled to give a ton of information because he was so casual with his clearances, past experiences and such.

Social_engineering_(security)

Perhaps he was really with Homeland Security, or maybe he was using a stolen credit card. But something about the guy, and the experience screams at me. I am just not sure what it is....


[edit on 21/11/2008 by DocMoreau]

On November 3rd we had approximately 150 Homeland Security Agents staying at our hotel. I was manager on the day they all arrived (11/1 and 11/2) and the majority of them used their govt credit cards for payment but if I had to estimate the remainder that used their PERSONAL cards and had SEE ID written on them i would say it was near 75-80% of the ones i checked in (while that ended up only being 7-10 that i personally checked in using personal credit as payment it still is a higher number than average travelers) ALSO showed their govt ID. I unfortunately didnt get any insight into the coming years as they were all there to protect McCain/Palin. Might have been different if I worked a hotel in Chicago

Originally posted by EldersCouncil
Interesting set of comments, but he was probably just messing with you. Maybe he went to one too many emergency preparedness meetings that week

Yeah, however, anyone who is paying attention can see the truth in what he is saying about riots coming.

I guess my cop rant proves that the goverment cannot protect you....your Homeland Guy was correct!

I have hung with a guy who told me that he used to be a SEAL. He was injured in some sort of exercise south of San Diego near the Mexican border...had his shoulder blade break out of his skin...anyhow he told me that some SEALS are not even American. A lot of guys from different parts of the world. The US Armed Forces do not discriminate I guess....so long as you do the job.

So as an Arab American i would'nt worry. They are watching everyone...and with good reason..a lot of guys are really pissed off about the goverment.

I believe your guy was trying to warn you. I mean the warning sighns are everywhere and it does not take a genius to understand that we are in for some hard times.

Originally posted by whiteraven
So as an Arab American i would'nt worry. They are watching everyone...and with good reason..a lot of guys are really pissed off about the goverment.

I believe your guy was trying to warn you. I mean the warning sighns are everywhere and it does not take a genius to understand that we are in for some hard times.

The Arab American bit was me just cracking wise to get a rise out of the guy, initially the conversation was very light, we were joking back and forth for a few minutes, he was in the store for probably a half hour or so all together. In all honesty, I don't consider myself an Arab American, I only used that phrasing to get a rise out of him. I usually describe myself as an American of Lebanese descent. I'm proud of my family's roots, but I am American. My grandfather came on a boat to Ellis Island in 1920 when he was 10. His father sent for the family when he had saved enough money to do so. He was drafted during WWII and when he reported, they sent him home because his brothers had already been drafted and he had 4 children. They told him he was already serving his country, as he was working in the Ford Rouge River plant building jeeps for the war effort. To the day he died, he would salute the flag. If DHS were looking for someone to watch for possible terrorist activity, it wouldn't be me. Besides all of that, as I stated before, I have a CPL and part of that process is a federal background check, if I was a risk, they would have flagged me then.

Your guy was sharing a feeling that I believe is permeating(SP) everything right now. I'm quite certain he's getting briefings as to how bad it really is or its basic trends. bottom line is, it's coming.

I doubt very seriously there will ever be any successful coordinated effort against the rogue or incompetent Govt, but there will be unprecedented violence, of this you can be assured.

To some small degree this is already underway but, good people are turning bad. How do I mean this. People are starving. Yes they are losing their homes, yes there are no presents under the tree (if there is a tree) but more importantly they are starving and so are their families.

Not to be trivial but like the joker said "These people will eat each other" not literally - we can hope.

Sooner or later a persons needs and that of those under that persons charge will outweigh the moral compass and that person will legitimise taking yours to feed his.

The Govt. will likely take control and distribution of whatever resources it deems available to the hoards but there wont be enough. The military will likely be saddled with this task and will come under attack when the supplies go dry. The military may not outright attack the American public, but they will definitely protect one another.

Just be thankful for the heads up from this guy as I am thankful for your posting this info for us all.



[edit on 22-11-2008 by KMFNWO]

reply to post by nixie_nox


Exactly! And it doesn't need two pages here to see through it. Riots, killing people, top secret. What's that supposed to be? I mean, it does not even sounds like dark humor, it sounds either like a guy full of himself unable to be as secretive as his job requires, or simply really bad taste.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
I think it's important to keep in mind that government or law enforcement employees are people too, and often voice personal opinions or suspicions regardless of whether they have any validity or foundation in anything other than their own feelings.

Exactly. He was probably expressing his opinion or reflecting the group-thought of his colleagues. Just as is done here on ATS.

Originally posted by foremanator
You know I get the impression that the Government definitely thinks rioting or civil war is going to occur in the near future.
But why do they think that? I mean not to draw comparisons, but this isn't south America or Tajikistan.

What is it that people are going to become aware of, that is going to piss them off so much as to incite them to rebel ignore the law and overthrow their Government? I mean it has to obvious and blatant with no denying or hiding

I would say the looming possible econimic disaster, this would cause comple shut down of every thing until the milatary gained control. I know where I live they would be in my back yard protecting what I live next to.

Riot's? You bet there will be riots when the pay check's stop coming.
How long to you think people who have worked there lives are going to stand
around and watch there kids and family starve and not do anything.
If things get just half as bad as they, the ones in the know are starting to say. We will have riots for food heat ,you name it.

And as for the Id's the guy had. Well people who are and have family in that sort of work know how they are used. What he said to the shop owner was not out of line. Sure he was most likely joking on parts of it.

But things are going to get worse as is being said. I have heard more warnings from the Government than I have ever heard. To me they are scared because there is not going to be a quick fix, and they new this was coming.
Instead of warning people they chose not to do anything in the hope it would just go away. Well it did not go away and they will held responsible for what they have let happen.
It is amazing how the normal working people are getting the blame for the mess that was created, Oh they bought what they could not afford!
Oh some did, but not all. When the price of fuel doubles and the cost of food goes up 4 time of what it was in just a few years. The workers get there hours cut back. Yea no one could afford anything at this rate.

He was right on one thing. Do what you can to protect you family and friends and hope that it is not needed. Because if this goes where it may or could it will get ugly quick.