Ineresting discussion I had with a Homeland Security agent

First I'd like to say that this is my first time starting a thread here, so please take it easy on me.

Also, I hope this is the correct forum for this, if not I'm sure the mods will take care of it for me.

On to the story!

I work in a small shop in one of Detroit's northern 'burbs. One day a man walks into the shop and after advising him on some of our products he choses one and I bring it to the counter for him and we started chatting a bit. He mentioned he just moved to Michigan and I asked him why on earth he would want to move here. He replied that he was just transferred to Selfridge A.N.G. base a few miles from here. I asked if he was in the Guard, he replied that he worked for Homeland Security. He proceeded to pay for his purchase with his credit card, on the back of which was written "See I.D.", so as I always do, I asked for his I.D. He pulls out his government I.D. and badge, lays it on the counter and said "That one there is Top Secret"
I replied "Ooooh, does that mean you have to kill me? After all I am an Arab-American?"
He chuckled then got pretty serious and said "I'm not here to kill you. I'm here to kill other people."

Was he joking? Probably, it was hard to tell, at that point he wasn't smiling.

He goes on to tell me that while in his previous posting, he was investigating a guy who had gone to the trouble of getting rated as a pilot capable of flying commercial airliners, only to work at his brother's party store in New York, and how the FBI told them to back off. He then goes on to rant about how the government can't protect you, only you can protect you. There's so much bureaucracy and politics involved in the federal law enforcement agencies that they can hardly get anything done. On his way out the door, he stops, turns around and says, "Buy a shotgun and wait for the riots, because they're coming."
I replied, "I'm way ahead of you, thats one of the good things about Michigan, not many hoops to jump through to own and carry guns."
He agreed with me and walked out the door.

This all happened a couple of months ago, I was hesitant to post this, I didn't want any repercussion for him. This is one reason I left out his previous location, though it probably wouldn't take much for anyone working for D.H.S. to put 2 and 2 together. Though I doubt he was breaking any rules by telling me what he did, still I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Everything in quotes is to the best of my recollection a direct statement.

I hope I don't get flamed and branded a Fear Monger for this and as it is anecdotal, I don't expect anyone to believe me as there's no evidence, other than my say so, that this conversation took place. At least I'm not predicting aliens or attacks because my ouija board says so

If he was truly with DHS:

1>He would not show you "top secret credentials".
2>He would not use his credentials as ID, there are regulations about using your credentials.

When he laid his creds on the counter, did he take his hand off of them?

Very interesting experience. Thank you for sharing it. Nice job on your first thread.

He chuckled then got pretty serious and said "I'm not here to kill you. I'm here to kill other people."

While some people may think he was joking around, I would say he was probably dead serious. It's normal for people to brush off the truth as a joke simply because they can't seem to wrap their head around the truth they are being told ... and that's all the more reason why people in positions of authority normally say things as they are rather than lie. They know people probably won't accept what they are saying as truth.

Did the guy ever return? I wonder if he thought McCain was going to win and was anticipating riots. Do you happen to remember who was ahead in the polls or at least if it was before the financial roof caved in?

Jemison

reply to post by habu71


He never took his hand off the wallet and when it hit the counter it made a satisfying thud. I'm no expert, but I've seen my fair share of badges. It was real. I think the top secret remark was made in levity, I doubt he showed me those creds. What he set on the counter was a federally issued photo I.D. and badge, cops do it all the time. It's no different than me using my CPL, a state issued photo I.D., when I misplaced my license. The regulations you speak of are so they don't get discounts just because of their job, though every cop or firefighter that comes in here doesn't have to ask for a discount, they will get one anyway, it's what most businesses do.

He hasn't been back since.

Edit for a random thought:
Besides all of that, Top Secret isn't really all that impressive.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by Supes]

Interesting set of comments, but he was probably just messing with you. Maybe he went to one too many emergency preparedness meetings that week

Nice first post Op. I wish more people would share these types of encounters. He sounded like an arogant, likely uneducated guy just slightly struggling with what he's being prepared for. Who knows. At least if the riots come you will be proved accurate. Keep that shotgun close.

Two such experiences I've had were.

A BW buddy of mine who I questioned about O'reillys treatment of Professor Fetzer was answered by "I think people who don't know what they are talking about should just shut their effing mouths and let "this thing" run its course".

And a few moths ago I was told I was "in the club" and when the time came "I would instictively do that which I was trained to do".

We shall see. thanks for sharing.

If he said "Top Secret ID", he was joking, if in fact:

-This story is accurate

and/or

-This customer was in fact DHS.


Nothing of a TS Nature can leave a secured environment, Bottom Line.

While Top Secret doesn't mean jack; his comments would make my hair stand on end anyway. Are there any FEMA Camps around Michigan?

I'm still at odds about the rioting; the reasons I've always known people to riot have usually been for a discrimination of sorts and it was usually 'one' group of people vs the establishment. If the moves that we all believe will happen, happen, it'll be the population vs. the establishment. That being said; not all military men are heartless or will follow their commands if they believe it's against their morals and hell against their own people. As well, not all the Top Brass would fall in line, people as evil as we are, we are also human and that brings a lot of empathy along with it.

Good story nonetheless.

Total fake, Someone who does not have a life.

Or an actor practising for a role.

Either way.

Anyone working for security would not give out information. Period. Not a case, nothing. Much less start bragging about it, or telling you they kill people.

I am not even sure if homeland security kills people, that maybe more FBI or NSA.

And they are not going to tell a random store clerk.

Survey says!? :

X

reply to post by Supes


While the story sounds interesting I will have to agree with others here that posted that if he was a top secret agent he will not be engaging in social conversation with a stranger about his deeds as an agent and neither would be divulging so easily his secret status.

Perhaps he does work for the homeland security but at a very low level.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Yeah and TSA only does Security in Airports

www.blacklistednews.com...

Survey says

X

The 'See ID' on the back of the credit card makes this feel a bit weird.

He created a situation that enabled him to show you those IDs. He could have paid cash. He could have shown you a driver's license, which is what "he should have done".

In fact, SEE ID is "not legal" per se.
usa.visa.com...

If the card has a “See ID” in place of a signature…



Request a signature. Ask the cardholder to sign the card and provide current government identification, such as a driver's license or passport (if local law permits).
Check the signature. Be sure that the signature on the card matches the one on the transaction receipt and the additional identification.
If the signatures appear reasonably the same and the authorization request is approved, go ahead and complete the transaction.

I have a gut feeling that you were a victim of some sort of fraud or social engineering. You felt compelled to give a ton of information because he was so casual with his clearances, past experiences and such.

Social_engineering_(security)

Perhaps he was really with Homeland Security, or maybe he was using a stolen credit card. But something about the guy, and the experience screams at me. I am just not sure what it is....


[edit on 21/11/2008 by DocMoreau]

First off, I think the Top Secret remark was in jest. Too many seem to be focusing on that part of the conversation. The "I'm here to kill other people" remark was also surely in jest. And aside from all of that, top secret clearance isn't really that special. I would be willing to wager anyone working as a field agent has top secret clearance as some aspects of their daily routine would involve dealings that can't and shouldn't be revealed publicly. So lets set the top secret remark aside because its meaningless, I only added it to my re-telling of this encounter to show the lightheartedness of the meeting initially.

Once he started to recount his tale of the pilot, and there's some details I left out, he got pretty agitated. He struck me as a guy who takes his job seriously enough to care about what he does. His agitated state led to the remark about government not being able to protect you.

He wasn't an uneducated idiot, he spoke well and carried himself like a cop. The badge was most definitely real.

Originally posted by DocMoreau
The 'See ID' on the back of the credit card makes this feel a bit weird.

He created a situation that enabled him to show you those IDs. He could have paid cash. He could have shown you a driver's license, which is what "he should have done".

In fact, SEE ID is "not legal" per se.
usa.visa.com...

If the card has a “See ID” in place of a signature…



Request a signature. Ask the cardholder to sign the card and provide current government identification, such as a driver's license or passport (if local law permits).
Check the signature. Be sure that the signature on the card matches the one on the transaction receipt and the additional identification.
If the signatures appear reasonably the same and the authorization request is approved, go ahead and complete the transaction.

I have a gut feeling that you were a victim of some sort of fraud or social engineering. You felt compelled to give a ton of information because he was so casual with his clearances, past experiences and such.

Social_engineering_(security)

Perhaps he was really with Homeland Security, or maybe he was using a stolen credit card. But something about the guy, and the experience screams at me. I am just not sure what it is....


[edit on 21/11/2008 by DocMoreau]

Ever work retail? I not only see that every day, but I do it myself. As for the guy showing his federal I.D. I'm guessing he was looking for a discount.

As far as me being a victim...HUH?? I didn't tell him anything except that I carry a gun. Oh crap I just told ATS!!! This must be some social engineering at work

I didn't even tell him my name, so not sure how you read all that from my recounting.

Here's a thought, he was as paranoid as everyone on this board and he was only saying what everyone else is saying. I just thought it was odd hearing it from someone in his position.

I feel I need to make a comment here, although it does not directly relate to the OP.

Time and again on these boards I have heard talk of the Military being used against the citizenry (sp?). Although, I am not discounting any theory on here, as I don't know exactly what I think. I do think I should clarify some things regarding this.

Riviera

..not all military men are heartless or will follow their commands if they believe it's against their morals and hell against their own people. As well, not all the Top Brass would fall in line, people as evil as we are, we are also human and that brings a lot of empathy along with it.

I agree.

Now I can't speak for the American military, but I can speak for the Canadian Forces. Not only would many of the scenarios discussed on ATS go against a persons morals, they would be considered illegal for a soldier to carry out such orders.

The Canadian Forces are bound by the "Code of Ethics". Which states among other things, that soldiers are not bound to follow an illegal order, i.e. killing non-combatants (civilians), in fact to follow an illegal order makes you guilty of the crime, regardless if a superior officer ordered it. Even if citizens were rioting, I can not see a situation were deadly force could be justified. Even in Afghanistan we are bound by Rules of Engagement. Which state the procedures for Escalation of Force. First off, we can not shoot an unarmed person, even if we know they are Taliban/Al-queda. The only time we can immediately return fire is if our lifes are directly threatened. So a rioting civilian running at us with, maybe a golf club, is not life threatening. Secondly there is another rule called "Proportional Force", meaning if someone is hurling rocks at me, I do not hurl Grenades back. You use only the neccesary force to end the situation.

In other words, rioting citizens, would probably not represent a life threatening scenario, a dangerous one no doubt, but life threatening?

Ultimately, I just don't see soldiers complying with any order to delibrately end civilian lives, especially their own countrymen. I am sure that their would be a few, but these are just psychos, who would be happy to kill for any reason, military or not.

Just my 2 cents.

I find the story very plausible, especially considering the state of affairs in our world today. It is a very stressful, foreboding time we live in and even moreso to someone in the know. This man strikes me as someone who is fed up... not happy with what he knows.

Look at the statements made recently by how many of the big people "in the know"... and made during media interviews and speeches. Would you have believed those had you not heard them with your own ears?

It would be a very naive person to not accept at this point in time that something is in the air. We know as a fact that the PTB have been making plans for this "something"

This man merely has a conscience....... the same kind of conscience that finally compelled the OP to post it here so that we would also know.

Thank you Supes.

I seriously wouldn't doubt it. I have been feeling the tenseness in the air for a long time. Something big is going to go down and it will be soon. I have been preparing for 6 months now with food guns and ammo. The government knows the economy is going to utterly crash and they will take steps to insure they stay on top. I have a feeling this man probably had a guilty conscience and H wanted to tell people to prepare just to make himself feel better. You people better prepare because its going to get real nasty real quick. I have a feeling this will unfold before February and its getting closer every day.

You know I get the impression that the Government definitely thinks rioting or civil war is going to occur in the near future.
But why do they think that? I mean not to draw comparisons, but this isn't south America or Tajikistan.

What is it that people are going to become aware of, that is going to piss them off so much as to incite them to rebel ignore the law and overthrow their Government? I mean it has to obvious and blatant with no denying or hiding.
So what then?
We are used to getting the shaft on a lot of things. The bail out. Suspension of civil liberty's. The wrongful wars we fight.
What could be so much worse than all of these where people would just refuse to abide by it?

Honestly this is what scares me the most.

I'm actually believing this one. I just had a real weird experience with a guy 'badgeing me'. It's hard to know what to think in a situation like that. Why would someone go through the trouble of making a fake govt. ID? Then again, why would they say something to a stranger about their involvement in sensitive areas... Hard to judge one of these without being there yourself.

He got you, an arab-american, to admit to owning a gun(s), and 'being ready' with it.
And he fed you a story about, what most would assume to be a trained airplane hijacker now living in New York who was being followed by FBI and DHS....
IS NO LONGER BEING FOLLOWED

Now all they have to do is keep their eyes and ears open and see where this story shows up.
If it pops up on some terrorist board somewhere saying 'all clear' then they know YOU are an inside man on the alleged terror plot and they know the man they were following in NY is as well.
If it ends up on ATS....the FBI and DHS just wasted time and effort dishing another story to an arab-american they are investigating or see as a potential threat?


(I hope you dont see this view of your story as racist on my part im telling the concept from the perspective of a government agent who thinks the worst of everyone. peace)
[edited to remove quote]

[edit on 22-11-2008 by s0ndernet]