Ineresting discussion I had with a Homeland Security agent

I got a U2U and since I don't have my 20 posts yet, I couldn't reply, so I'm going to do it here.

I was called sick for the "Now do you have to kill me..." remark. I guess some people haven't heard the old joke about "I'd tell you but then I'd have to kill you." It was a joke between two people who were having what started as a light conversation.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen


Regarding credentials (badges), I've had TS, TS/SCI and others over the years and as a matter of policy, the badge stays with me at all times, including at home. So in the context of this individuals badge, to say that nothing of a TS nature can leave a TS environment in incorrect.

reply to post by samuel.iamenski007


Does the ID state the level of clearance on it? I'm curious as I only looked at the name and picture on the ID to verify the card he was using was his, I didn't look at any of the other information on it. That was part of the discussion early in the thread that he wouldn't have shown me an ID that showed his level of clearance, though as I said, I don't think TS is all that uncommon.

[edit on 22-11-2008 by Supes]

reply to post by s0ndernet


Interesting viewpoint. Could very well be.

Originally posted by Riviera
While Top Secret doesn't mean jack; his comments would make my hair stand on end anyway. Are there any FEMA Camps around Michigan?

I'm still at odds about the rioting; the reasons I've always known people to riot have usually been for a discrimination of sorts and it was usually 'one' group of people vs the establishment. If the moves that we all believe will happen, happen, it'll be the population vs. the establishment. That being said; not all military men are heartless or will follow their commands if they believe it's against their morals and hell against their own people. As well, not all the Top Brass would fall in line, people as evil as we are, we are also human and that brings a lot of empathy along with it.

Good story nonetheless.

Here are some pics of the Michigan Camp I took back in the mid 1990's. There are REX84 camps all over the place.






It sounds to me like the DHS guy is questioning his own loyalty to the government as a government agent in DHS by warning someone of the coming riots.

[edit on 11/22/2008 by Evisscerator]

Originally posted by KMFNWO
Nice first post Op. I wish more people would share these types of encounters. He sounded like an arogant, likely uneducated guy just slightly struggling with what he's being prepared for. Who knows. At least if the riots come you will be proved accurate. Keep that shotgun close.

Two such experiences I've had were.

A BW buddy of mine who I questioned about O'reillys treatment of Professor Fetzer was answered by "I think people who don't know what they are talking about should just shut their effing mouths and let "this thing" run its course".

And a few moths ago I was told I was "in the club" and when the time came "I would instictively do that which I was trained to do".

We shall see. thanks for sharing.

rofl wow this site is hilarious.. brightened my day right up

To the OP - nice post. But I think you had someone pulling a fast one on you. He was way to chatty to be real and nothing TS would be out in the open like that.

Interesting story. I have to ask myself "is the Op insane?". I have no evidence of this, and also the o.p. doesn't benefit from the post in any way (if he were insane there could be some mental reward for lying). Many are saying he guy "wouldn't show that id" or "wouldn't say he's an agent". I agree, under normal circumstances. However, if you add that he says "the gov't can't protect you", then you have a man who might be breaking protocol because it doesn't function the way it was meant to. If he sees these agencies as lumbering beauracracies then it would seem logical that telling the people themselves of impending disasters would be the next step. All in all, a frighteningly believable story.

This seems more than plausible, perhaps more than likely.

I live in the same are described, Northern Detroit suburbs, right near Selfridge ANG Base. There is a constant flow of DHS in this area. You cannot go one day driving on I-94 (Major highway from Detroit to Chicago) without seeing at least 2 DHS trucks. They seem to travel in packs, hardly ever see a single DHS truck travelling on the highway. Combine that with the DHS buses (Yes, they have buses - white school buses), and we have one hell of a Homeland Security presence. Makes sense, being a "border town" and all.

As far as the way the agent in the story bragged about his credentials, well... This is DHS territory. The Homeland Security agents out here are less than friendly. They seem to have this overall feeling that they run the show here, and they truly do. They have full powers here to detain, search, confiscate, and arrest. If you upset one of the agents out here, they truly do have the ability to make you disappear, ending you in a makeshift prison camp somewhere, in the name of National Security.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
To the OP - nice post.

But I think you had someone pulling a fast one on you. He was way to chatty to be real and nothing TS would be out in the open like that.

Nothing Top Secret was in the open. Saying you have TS clearance isn't TS in itself, if it is, I know at least a handful of people who have spilled, including samuel.iamenski007 a few posts ago.

Originally posted by heyo
Interesting story. I have to ask myself "is the Op insane?". I have no evidence of this, and also the o.p. doesn't benefit from the post in any way (if he were insane there could be some mental reward for lying). Many are saying he guy "wouldn't show that id" or "wouldn't say he's an agent". I agree, under normal circumstances. However, if you add that he says "the gov't can't protect you", then you have a man who might be breaking protocol because it doesn't function the way it was meant to. If he sees these agencies as lumbering beauracracies then it would seem logical that telling the people themselves of impending disasters would be the next step. All in all, a frighteningly believable story.

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the state of my mental health but to counter the point about him not showing his ID; The guy is just a cop, cops do it all the time. Retired cops, off duty cops, cops on their lunch breaks, we get cops in here a lot as we're a specialty store and fairly well known in the area. Cops usually keep their badges in the same place as their credit cards. I don't get the whole "he wouldn't show his badge" argument.

I imagine that if you had information regarding some major disaster and you were unable to share it, it would cause a great deal of tension for you. Even if your immediate family was going to be safe and secure, I believe it would bother a normal person. Greatly.

You might share it with a complete stranger if you felt you had no chance of it coming back to you. And you might share it in such a way that it could come off as a joke. That way, you were warning "someone" so that when the event did occur, you didn't feel as bad about it. It would be a way to relieve some of the tension.

"Things meant to be true are often said in jest."

The exchange by itself really doesn't mean much, but taken into context with the recent military earthquake drills in Arizona, the development of FEMA camps, various politicians warning of some catastrophe, the economy tanking and so forth, I believe I would take his words to heart. In fact, I'd make sure what I had was a shot gun and plenty of ammo, not just a handgun.

These kinds of syncronicities happen everyday. You were privileged to have a heads up for a time which is drawing near.

Take it for what it was and move forward to enjoy your life and appreciate your family and friends, period.

We can do nothing to change the course of this wicked future headed our way, but you can walk into it knowing that you have been informed, you have done all you can to protect yourself and your loved ones until whatever wickedness passes.

Fear will blind you, faith will bind you.

Originally posted by Supes

Ever work retail? I not only see that every day, but I do it myself. As for the guy showing his federal I.D. I'm guessing he was looking for a discount.

As far as me being a victim...HUH?? I didn't tell him anything except that I carry a gun. Oh crap I just told ATS!!! This must be some social engineering at work

I didn't even tell him my name, so not sure how you read all that from my recounting.

Here's a thought, he was as paranoid as everyone on this board and he was only saying what everyone else is saying. I just thought it was odd hearing it from someone in his position.

Ummm. Yeah, I have worked retail. In fact I used to work retail in a very high dollar item store, and we required the customers to sign the card. If they refused, we refused the merchandise.

Do you know why? Someone can steal a credit card when it comes in the mail, activate it, write see id on the back, and then social engineer the cashier into accepting it. Then when the card comes up stolen, usually the business is out of their merchandise, and out the sale as well. Insurance covers parts, but usually not all of situations like that. But not if it happens often enough.

Do you often ask for them to take the id out of the wallet when you are checking the signature? Probably not. Most people don't. Most people don't even check to see if the name matches on the credit card and on the id. They just match the signature they now have to the one on the id.

I never said you told him your name, but you did tell him your ethnicity, and that you have a firearm.

DocMoreau

Originally posted by DocMoreau

Ummm. Yeah, I have worked retail. In fact I used to work retail in a very high dollar item store, and we required the customers to sign the card. If they refused, we refused the merchandise.

Do you know why? Someone can steal a credit card when it comes in the mail, activate it, write see id on the back, and then social engineer the cashier into accepting it. Then when the card comes up stolen, usually the business is out of their merchandise, and out the sale as well. Insurance covers parts, but usually not all of situations like that. But not if it happens often enough.

Do you often ask for them to take the id out of the wallet when you are checking the signature? Probably not. Most people don't. Most people don't even check to see if the name matches on the credit card and on the id. They just match the signature they now have to the one on the id.

I never said you told him your name, but you did tell him your ethnicity, and that you have a firearm.

DocMoreau

I ask for it out of the wallet when I can't read it. I always note the signature, the name and make sure the picture matches the face.

And technically I lied to him concerning my ethnicity. It is a common misconception that Lebanese are Arabs. We're Mediterranean, more closely related to Phoenicians. And to top it all of I wear a cedar charm on my necklace. So once again I didn't give him any personal information that I don't give freely to everyone on a daily basis.

reply to post by whiteraven


I can't speak much on the National Guard incident. I am aware of the incident, however, I do not know enough details to comment on it. I would hope that the soldiers as well as their superiors were charged and convicted. Were they?

As for your other "Cop rants". Yes I agree these cops unneccesarily took lives, and should be held accountable for that. However, the Taser incident at the Vancouver airport, was not a deliberate attempt to kill someone, only an unfortunate accident. Police are armed with Taser's as a non-lethal option. When the RCMP used it on that man, they did not intend to kill him. And, not that I have any sympathy, the drunk driving situation could be a direct result of the cops involvement in that situation.

With more Taser incidents occuring, it won't be long before you see them banned. There is already much talk about it happening. I speak of Canada here not the States.

I could go on and on but I think my point is made.....

Your examples highlight the bad apples, the psychos that I spoke of. They would kill wether they wore a uniform or not, the uniform just emboldens them with an "above the law" attitude. You do nothing to disprove my post, which talked about the willful mass killings of civilians by the military. So either I don't get your point or you didn't make any, in reference to my statements.

Do you have examples of American/Canadian military or police killing civilians on a large scale? If you do please enlighten me, otherwise your post is just as you say, a "rant" nothing more.

Peace

My 2 cents

I was stationed at Camp Pendelton during the Rodney King Riots. Was on standby to go up there and back up the national guard if things got out of control. Did not go but, we were ready and willing to go. Was 19 at the time and itching for a fight and didn't think (as I should have) about the possibilty of firing on "Fellow Americans", I looked at them as looters, thugs and criminals.

Had a Drill instructor explain to me in great detail the Military command structure. Federal troops ASAF, USA, USN, USMC fall differently in the command structure. Distributed command makes it harder for 1 group to gain control over the entire military during a coup attempt. Worst case scenario, Airforce/Army could end up fighting Marines/Navy. SF troops against regulars, SEALS against Green Beret, Rangers against Recon. National Guard is under command of the Governors of their states. They could end up fighting Federal troops. This almost came to be in Utah long ago when Brigham Young (Yes, the father of Mormons) was Governor and was trying to extort settlers on their way to California.

The most disturbing thing in my mind is the Iraq war. It has, in a way, Federalized the National Guard by deploying them on foreign soil alongside Federal Troops. Governors could have rejected the improper use of their State's troops but, none did. National Guard troops entering New Orleans after Katrina did so with weapons at the ready, they were recently back from deployment in Iraq.

Where does DHS fit in this structure? Who are they loyal too? And even more disturbing, where will Obama's volunteer corps fit into the structure? Equal authority to Federal troops? Superior? Congressional approval required to activate them? Does Obama see something coming and taking extreme action in an effort to protect us or is he apart of it? Patriot Act expanded Secret Service authority, former head of Secret Service now heads the Border Patrol.

Very, Very Disturbing to a simple Marine like me.
I guess the Black SUV's are going to come for me now. Fk it.

Sorry but since this is the internet and you don't have reliable sources etc with proof it's taken with a grain of salt. Nothing against you just how it is on the internet where people can make all sorts of claims.

Originally posted by habu71

If he was truly with DHS:

1>He would not show you "top secret credentials".
2>He would not use his credentials as ID, there are regulations about using your credentials.

When he laid his creds on the counter, did he take his hand off of them?

Ding exactly. It's not like he's a regular police officer or something. Also if the person wasn't there to see the op why mention he's a homeland security agent? Not even cops do that unless they're on duty and talking to someone about their current case.

Originally posted by Riviera
While Top Secret doesn't mean jack; his comments would make my hair stand on end anyway. Are there any FEMA Camps around Michigan?

I'm still at odds about the rioting; the reasons I've always known people to riot have usually been for a discrimination of sorts and it was usually 'one' group of people vs the establishment. If the moves that we all believe will happen, happen, it'll be the population vs. the establishment. That being said; not all military men are heartless or will follow their commands if they believe it's against their morals and hell against their own people. As well, not all the Top Brass would fall in line, people as evil as we are, we are also human and that brings a lot of empathy along with it.

Good story nonetheless.

And how to validate the story if it's true? If you're a top secret agent you don't go around and tell people you are! You make something up or say you're with the police or something like that. Other wise why the hell with the "top secret" title? Doy. Common sense here.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Total fake, Someone who does not have a life.

Or an actor practising for a role.

Either way.

Anyone working for security would not give out information. Period. Not a case, nothing. Much less start bragging about it, or telling you they kill people.

I am not even sure if homeland security kills people, that maybe more FBI or NSA.

And they are not going to tell a random store clerk.

Survey says!? :

X

FBI would only kill someone if they have no choice. I'm studying criminal justice right now and you don't draw your gun unless you know for sure you're going to shoot in self defense. Now CIA is another thing all together. That's some crazy #. I wouldn't ever get involved with the CIA. I think there are good agents and bad agents there but I wouldn't get involved because I wouldn't want to jeopardize my morals etc.