Steven Greer claims he vectored in the Phoenix lights UFO's !

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Don't you want to find out once and for all if these overunity energy devices are real? Wouldn't you want to see ATS do a REAL, serious investigation into them?

No. Because for the thousandth time, he has lied about so much his new claims warrant zero investigation. THAT has been the point here all along.

Greer is the boy who cried wolf. And the photo of his free energy device in progress has lightning bolts on it. (insert snickering emoticon here.)

Now GoldenAge, that's not your cue to latch onto the lightning bolt comment and ignore the sentences above it--because those are the meat of the issue.

reply to post by dashen


We have a FREEPER at

WWW.FREEREPUBLIC.COM...

who worked with Greer in the ER. She says he's a top flight MD and was a great guy with high integrity and smarts.

However, a couple of things seemed to happen after he'd dedicated himself to this cause for a few years . . .

1. he hobnobbed with a lot of biggies and it seemed to go to his head overmuch.

2. he seemed to get immersed in/get seduced by the occultic new age mysticism aspects and hasn't been the same since.

Sad. Sounds very sad, to me.

However, that would be one way to neutralize him. Drive, lead or seduce him over an edge into blithering silliness.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I have been told by a veteran, highly respected researcher, that essentially he's always been a bit "off".

But aside from that, this enigma does in fact tend to have an effect on people. Over the long haul, I've seen quite a few people obsessed to the point of psychosis, paranoia, and it's debilitating.

Now, do I believe Greer is one of them? No. I don't think he's tuned into anything past what he can gain from it. I think he's a smart guy who sees opportunity, and provenance to gain foothold in a "field" that doesn't have a long term memory for nonsense and broken claims.

Lemme be brutally honest with you folks. When you have this thing effect your life, in profound ways, the idea of "selling" it for big cash or profiting unreasonable sums for it...is damned near unthinkable. Part of you says you've suffered because of it, and why not make it pay for you. The other half asks you how you can live with yourself to sell such a personal experience. It's part of you. It is for me, one of the deepest parts, because it's interaction was one of my first memories of childhood.

One of the many reasons (besides the ridiculous claims and nonsense, and a host of other crap) I put no stock in Greer is the aspect of money, NDA's and absurd fees. Because you know when you've had any experience like this, that it's not a frigging product....it fits into no box, no label, and no price.

Write a book? Fine. Sell art inspired by experience? Sure. But, sell an experience? Sell YOUR experience? If you've had it, and I know some of you have...you'd never dream of it.

You'd just want to share it. And you don't need Greer, or any of the rest of them to meet the alien. Any of you can. But be careful what you wish for.

Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Don't you want to find out once and for all if these overunity energy devices are real? Wouldn't you want to see ATS do a REAL, serious investigation into them?

No. Because for the thousandth time, he has lied about so much his new claims warrant zero investigation. THAT has been the point here all along.

Well I'm sorry but that is ignorant to the extreme. "That Radiant-Energy phenomenon can't be true because Steven Greer talks about it."

Radiant Energy PRECEDES Greer, Vaeni! It goes all the way back to TESLA. And people like Bearden and Bedini have put out loads of evidence and information about it - books, schematics, videos, everything.

Put aside your contempt for Greer, Vaeni. Open your eyes, and open your mind. It's not like Greer has a monopoly on free energy!

There's a lot going on in the New Energy movement, and a lot of it is independent of Greer. Open your mind, open your eyes, and LOOK at what's out there.

[edit on 28-11-2008 by GoldenAge]

reply to post by GoldenAge


Moving goalposts again. You're behaving as if no one believes in or condones new forms of energy, or research into alternate power. That is not, and has never been, what this discussion is about.

If anyone wants to fund exploration of this kind of research, which is certainly needed, that's great, but I certainly wouldn't start with sending anything to Greer's bunch. There may be no problem with who he's assembled together, but ultimately he's running it, and associated with it.

That's the problem.

But, that's not the discussion. The discussion is his UFO related claims and statements. However we seem to be continually brought to associates with Orion and alt. energy.

Again, discarded.

Originally posted by GoldenAge

Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Don't you want to find out once and for all if these overunity energy devices are real? Wouldn't you want to see ATS do a REAL, serious investigation into them?

No. Because for the thousandth time, he has lied about so much his new claims warrant zero investigation. THAT has been the point here all along.

Well I'm sorry but that is ignorant to the extreme. "That Radiant-Energy phenomenon can't be true because Steven Greer talks about it."

Didn't say that. I said--for the umpteenth and final time, GREER IS FULL OF IT. I DON'T CARE WHAT GREER SAYS HE IS DOING ABOUT DISCLOSURE, MEDITATION, FREE ENERGY, OR HIS WIFE AND 4 DAUGHTERS. HE LIES?--I STOP LISTENING TO HIM. SIMPLE EQUATION.

NOW LET'S IGNORE HIM AND GO STUDY FREE ENERGY DEVICE ENGINEERING WITH PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE A TRACK RECORD OF LYING. PEOPLE OTHER THAN GREER.

THE END.

Originally posted by jritzmann
Moving goalposts again. You're behaving as if no one believes in or condones new forms of energy, or research into alternate power. That is not, and has never been, what this discussion is about.

If anyone wants to fund exploration of this kind of research, which is certainly needed, that's great,

Great, so does this mean you agree with me that a field investigation into these devices would be a good idea? Especially if, say, Joel Garbon could lead Team ATS to a real overunity device, for example?

but I certainly wouldn't start with sending anything to Greer's bunch.

Right, as I've been trying to say, to do this, ATS would not need to speak with Greer or be involved with him in any capacity. There are plenty of other people who have this technology, or know people who do....

Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
NOW LET'S IGNORE HIM AND GO STUDY FREE ENERGY DEVICE ENGINEERING WITH PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE A TRACK RECORD OF LYING. PEOPLE OTHER THAN GREER.

EXACTLY, VAENI!

THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY ALL ALONG!

ATS could conduct a field investigation into these technologies without speaking to Greer at all or being involved with him in any way.

ATS could work with JOEL GARBON, or Sterling Allan, or any number of other people who are involved with these technologies.

You see now? It's not always about "promoting Greer". OK?

So how many advanced energy experts are there on ATS?

Physicists? Research scientists? Engineers? With proven track records in R&D? With practical experience in doing basic research?

How would the ATS community know how to evaluate an advanced energy technology?

Greer is a dead end. He told me he would be releasing a disc with all of his claimed UFO footage. Nothing has appeared, and I'll bet the kitchen sink we'll see nothing from him anytime soon. He's got no one of any reputation working on his bogus energy deal, so why should he be trusted? Most of the reputable folks involved in the 2001 Disclosure press conference have gone to lengths to distance themselves from Greer. The significance of that fact is obvious.

Jeff and Jeremy, you guys must be bored, engaging in a debate about this with people who want to put Greer on a pedestal. Get outside, breath some fresh air, scratch your balls, it's a better way to spend your time. Seriously.

dB

Originally posted by davidbiedny
So how many advanced energy experts are there on ATS?

Physicists? Research scientists? Engineers? With proven track records in R&D? With practical experience in doing basic research?

How would the ATS community know how to evaluate an advanced energy technology?

Well those are all great questions, davidbiedny. I don't know. Maybe there are lots of qualified scientists on ATS, maybe none. Maybe just enough.

Maybe all ATS would need to do is just ASK for volunteers

He's got no one of any reputation working on his bogus energy deal, so why should he be trusted?

Well as I keep saying, many of the big names in the new energy movement keep giving props to Greer. Why? Why would they do that, unless he's helped them somehow?

reply to post by GoldenAge



I don't know if they are or not as you've not linked to any quotes from them...but let's assume Greer is getting props from decent people in that field. Why would he?--Because he's championing their cause and they've not checked out his background. That would be my guess.

Greer, on the surface, probably seems competent, confident, and is a doctor. What's not to love? This is how he suckered the likes of Robert Salas into joining his disclosure movement--He was an open ear with the above listed qualities when the man didn't know to whom to turn. I've read in some forum--maybe this one--the argument for Greer is that a guy like Salas surely would not have trusted him with his story without doing a proper background check. That sounds logical but it isn't generally what people do. Salas didn't. I asked him.

So how many other credible, smart people just trusted the guy blindly because he sold them on his credentials and go-getter spirit? It's as old as Avon calling.


[edit on 28-11-2008 by Jeremy_Vaeni]

Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
I don't know if they are or not as you've not linked to any quotes from them...but let's assume Greer is getting props from decent people in that field. Why would he?--Because he's championing their cause and they've not checked out his background. That would be my guess.

Yes it would be, but it's just a guess, so it's useless. You don't KNOW.

reply to post by GoldenAge


Correct, I don't know. I also don't know if my chair is going to come alive and shove me off of it and demand equal rights.

I'm dealing in probabilities.

And the probability, based on Greer being a snake oil salesman is... I'll let you guess.

I'm done with this. It's tired. Your stupidity is boring. I hope you're secretly intelligent and this is part of an experiment to see how many times you can get morons like me to respond to your repetitive nonsense.

reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni


Well, I was secretly intelligent enough to actually talk to Nora Maccoby and Todd Hathaway, for example.

And they said, "yeah we do volunteer work for Greer/AERO and other people...." (Orion Project didn't exist at that time.)

See? You guess, and deal with your "probabilities".... I know. Because I do my homework, and you don't.

Okay, cool. Take care. Let us know when that free energy device becomes available.

reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni


They already are available, Vaeni. That's the whole point.

Steven Greer is using the Vectoring techniques devised by T. Roy Dutton who is a Chartered Engineer, a Member of the Royal Aeronautical Society and a Member of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers. He has spent all of his working life in the British aerospace industry working on many engineering projects commencing with rocketry and advanced space vehicle studies.

Roy's years of research have produced a computer programme which can generate timing charts for any given location on the Earth's surface.

These charts utilise a double 24-hour time scale, and show the most likely times for UFO Close Encounters and Crop Circle formation.

There are two sets of lines on the graphs - one is wavy and the other is straight/sloping. The wavy lines relate (navigationally) to sunset and sunrise, respectively. The two sets of sloping lines are navigationally-linked to two sets of fixed points in the heavens.

In Roy's words:

"The times given by the lines appear to be the times of DELIVERY FROM SPACE - or, DEPARTURE from the SURFACE of the EARTH - of the exploration ("scout") craft. The timings model discovered by me indicates that those "scout" vehicles are deposited from space - and retrieved, later - by large spacecraft in short-term SUPER ORBITS. It would seem that the large space-cruisers TEMPORARILY circulate at altitudes of only a few hundred miles. This tactic would minimise the chances of detection and "lock-on" by our radars. So - my scenario assumes that the big ones remain close to the Earth just long enough to deliver and retrieve the small "scouts."

I have noticed that, during the period since the 1950's, prolonged Close Encounters often appear to have involved a delivery from an orbit which is, say, sun-linked (wavy timing line) coupled with a retrieval by an orbiter in a star-linked orbit (sloping timing line.) - or VICE VERSA. But, I've also noticed that prolonged CE events only rarely exceed ONE HOUR in duration. So, that's why the crossovers between sun and star orientated track timings are so significant.

If the same rules continue to be followed, the date periods on both sides of those cross-overs, wherein the gap between the lines is ONE HOUR or LESS, are indicators to prolonged CE activity. (i.e. abductions and crop-circle creation, etc.) At all other times indicated by the lines, the activity can be expected to be usually only short term, flyover or surveillance activity.

(It seems logical to me that, as our technology improved, the ET's found it necessary to introduce new evasive tactics.)

No, I am independent of any outside party, supporting anyone who is pro-adv energy tech. If you want to see a real adv energy tech, Peter Sumaruck has one...so does Jim Boswell. To contact Pete, his colleague's email is [email protected]. Jim would prefer not to be contacted directly, but Sterling has a web page and is taking public inquiries through that web site. I have VOLUNTEERED to provide security to both parties while they work their way through the minefield of securing funding to take their respective technologies into production. If you want to talk to me directly rather than post stuff behind my back, just call me...240-997-4582.

Todd Hathaway
www.altenergy2012.com

reply to post by easynow


Understanding deception is a big part of ET schooling within their field.
Because they are highly cerebral it is used as sport.
Dr. Greer may, unknowingly, be influenced by certain ET's with varying agendas.
Is he a seer?
Is he a liar?
Is he a test?

Originally posted by Oscitate
reply to post by ZombieOctopus

 

Indeed, when I first saw the disclosure project, I remember saying to myself, "These aren't wackos". Greer seemed scientific and commanding. But he has left a legacy of shame over the last few years that is hard to ignore. And what on earth are CE-5 protocols?

You mean forced too! And yet still maintains dignity and works for the cause.

Disclosure has already happened, by people with more clearance the pontiff of the US or our PM ever had, and alot of the work on this was from Greer, and it took courage, I imagine. In fact in one of his videos, where he was talking about a meeting just prior to the disclosure project, he happened to speak up and pointed up that the contracts they sign, with supposed prison sentences were illegal and that no court that has to uphold constitutionally sound laws, could sentence anyone for breaking a contract with shadow military/government, something above the congress and all components of government that answer in a string of command to the constitution that empowers them, whereas this doesnt answer to anything. Those contracts are ILLEGAL.

I rather admire the man. And everything that he does, going out with his intentions and meditations would bring contact nearly 100% of the time.

Thats how you do it.

And it takes right heart, right intentions, integrity.

Someone else like him that way is James Gilliland.

Steven hasn't refused to be discredited and so he is still mentioned in ufo conferences etc.

James Gilliland won't compromise, talks the full contact he gets including the spiritual nature that they are highly advanced, won't allow control or discrediting so that only those true seekers continue, so he is lately shunned, though continues to emmase tons of evidence.

But I respect both of them alot.