US Supreme Court to Conference on Obama's Presidential Eligibility

reply to post by Gools


CSPAN should broadcast the US Supreme Court hearings on this matter. Enough SMOKE AND MIRRORS behind closed doors. The PEOPLE deserve the see the facts and the truth.

If they discover that OBAMA is not a natural born American, then he ought to have his win thrown out and McCain declared the winner. Better yet, the Electoral College should throw every single vote behind McCain and validate the election that way.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States...

I did not vote for Obama, however I'm opposed to his being removed even if the Supreme Court were to find him ineligible. He won in a decisive manner and it is time for intelligent human beings to put the Partisan garbage aside and instead pray for his success; whether you agree with him or not.

I posted this excerpt of the US Constitution to show what I think the deciding factor should be. As I read this it would mean any decision he should be denied the right to run for President Unconstitutional on its face. "No State shall make or enforce ANY LAW which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens..." Obama and McCain are Citizens and that is not in dispute.

You are wrong. Application of the 14th Amendment does not constitute the means test for the Office of the President of the US. The Constitution is very clear in defining WHO is eligible and OBAMA, for all the whinning out there, was born in KENYA, by a white American woman who also did not pass the test of the LAW as of 1961, for her newborn to be an American citizen.

If OBAMA was not BORN in the United States, being a NATURAL born citizen of the United States, then he, according the US Constitution, is INELIGIBLE to run or be PRESIDENT regardless of what you bleeding heart left leaning liberals might say about the POPULAR VOTE.

The POPULAR vote does not an election for the Office of the President of the US decide. That is left to the Electoral College, who can, still overturn the election when they vote.

Originally posted by Evisscerator
If they discover that OBAMA is not a natural born American, then he ought to have his win thrown out and McCain declared the winner. Better yet, the Electoral College should throw every single vote behind McCain and validate the election that way.

Well, Obama has provided a document saying he was born in Hawaii, and his birth was even apparently announced in a Hawaiian newspaper.

On what are you basing your statement that he was born in Kenya?

And it is my conclusion that John McCain is not eligible, because he is not a natural born citizen.

Originally posted by Evisscerator
reply to post by Gools

 

If they discover that OBAMA is not a natural born American, then he ought to have his win thrown out and McCain declared the winner. Better yet, the Electoral College should throw every single vote behind McCain and validate the election that way.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. If a president gets impeached, the vice doesn't go with him. If Obama is found to not be natural born, than Biden with be Pres.

Hey Danx,

Your own link states:

12. The COLB on Smears and Kos has likely been altered, as Techdude’s and Polarik’s studies show, but probably reflects Obama’s true birth certificate so it’s not clear how or why it was altered. The way the COLB was handled and its suspicious presentation could have been intended to serve as a diversion from the can of worms Obama doesn’t want anyone to open.

THAT can of worms is the eligibility problem a POTUS candidate faces if that person has EVER held dual citizenship.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by TheStev
Hey Danx,

Your own link states:

[...]

Thoughts?

That page is linked on the factcheck.org's article with the following description:
The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.

I'm not sure what to think of it, because I have to admit I have not seen the the Certificate of Live Birth on Smears and Kos nor Techdude’s and Polarik’s studies. I'll try to check it tomorrow as it's getting pretty late here and I have to get some sleep soon.

I do however think the analysis and photographs presented on that factcheck.org's article are trustworthy. They also comment on the allegations that the one provided by the campaign looked as it was fake:

The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

Tomorrow I'll look into the allegations on that blog.
I'm off to bed now. Later guys.

I would laugh my buttocks off if it turned out that Joe Biden was behind this "push" in the Supreme Court. Imagine the confusion! There would be a lot of ugly heads reared if that scenario developed. Oh, wait. How many Judges were appointed by Bill Clinton? Hmmmmmm!?

Donofrio's suit is legitimate. It's aim is to have the Supreme Court define the term "Natural-Born" citizen. The term is defined NO place in the Constitution, yet the requirements for POTUS are that s(he) be a "natural-born" citizen.

The prevailing view is that Obama is not a 'natural-born' citizen, whether or not he was born on US soil (Hawaii) because his father was not a US citizen.

There are numerous suits out there which seek to 'see' the birth certificate. As it turns out, this is a red herring and not the real issue. It is suggested that these suits are part of a conspiracy to distract us and divert us from the real issue. The appeal which led to Donofrio filing his suit as an emergency action was rejected for reasons immaterial to the facts but the NJ Supreme Court worded their dismissal in such a way as to open Donofrio's path to the Supreme Court. This is the ONLY venue where the Constitutional question which was raised can be addressed -- namely, WHAT is the definition, constitutionally, of the term "natural-born" citizen. If the Supremes define the term 'natural-born' in the way the Founder's seemed to have used the term,. then Obama is not eligible to be POTUS no matter where he was born because his father was British.

This may open the door to a very difficult time in this country, because it may trigger a CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS. Given the polarization of this country along political lines right now, I would not want to imagine the need for martial law which might arise, should the Obama supporters discover that their messiah will not be allowed to accede to the office of President.

There is a document that covers this issue at:
www.lanlamphere.com...

The prevailing view is that Obama is not a 'natural-born' citizen, whether he was born in Kenya or on US soil (Hawaii) because his father was not a US citizen.

There are numerous suits out there which seek to 'see' the birth certificate. As it turns out, this is a red herring and not the real issue. It is suggested that these suits are part of a conspiracy to distract us and divert us from the real issue. The appeal which led to Donofrio filing his suit as an emergency action was rejected for reasons immaterial to the facts but the NJ Supreme Court worded their dismissal in such a way as to open Donofrio's path to the Supreme Court. This is the ONLY venue where the Constitutional question which was raised can be addressed -- namely, WHAT is the definition, constitutionally, of the term "natural-born" citizen. If the Supremes define the term 'natural-born' in the way the Founder's seemed to have used the term,. then Obama is not eligible to be POTUS no matter where he was born because his father was British.

This may open the door to a very difficult time in this country, because it may trigger a CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS. Given the polarization of this country along political lines right now, I would not want to imagine the need for martial law which might arise, should the Obama supporters discover that their messiah will not be allowed to accede to the office of President.

There is a document that covers this issue at:
www.lanlamphere.com...

Originally posted by danx

US Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1403

(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

8 USC 1403(a) applies to John McCain since he was born in 1936. Therefor, McCain was declared a US Citizen, making him a naturalized citizen.

Thus, John McCain is not a "natural born" citizen. He is ineligible for the office of President of the United States.


Regarding Barack Obama,
If he was in fact born in Hawaii, then he is a "natural born" citizen.

From the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 Section 305:

Sec. 305. [8 U.S.C. 1405] A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900.

Sec.305. [8 U.S.C.] 1405 still lacks the defining term "natural born citizen" required for the elegibility to become US President.

John McCain hasn't been issued any document stating that he became a naturalized citizen of the United States of A. What is his nationality, then?

There is nothing wrong with both guys to prevent them from moving into the White House. Common sense and an obvious circumstance of their birth will decide.

It really depends on how the Supreme Court looks at everything. There is no defining code, regulation, or authority that describes EXACTLY what natural born means. It could refer to a natural birth (none C-Section), doubtful but bear with me.

I also had a friend back in school who was born on an Air Force base in Germany. Both of his parents were American. He was NOT a natural born citizen and could NOT have ran for President. I remember him being upset by this...Lol.

So, if that holds to be true, McCain would most likely NOT be eligible for President either. I voted for McCain, but at this point, I'm curious to see what Obama could do too. Fact is, neither of them may be eligible for President.

If that's the case, then Biden would not become President either because Obama/Biden was never technically sworn in to office. Technically, until the electoral votes are cast and counted, Obama isn't even the President-Elect. This is all on presumption that the electoral votes are casted properly.

More than likely, what would happen is that Bush would be left in office until such a time when new campaigns could be ran, but I don't see them offsetting the cycle of elections so Bush might even be left in office FOUR more years until the next cycle of Presidential elections. You figure 4/9 justices on the Supreme Court were appointed by Bush. It takes 4 for the Supreme Court to hear a case and 5 to actually agree yes/no on the subject once it's heard. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Just my two cents on the subject though, I'm curious to see how this plays out. If it's not decided by the time Jan 20 comes, could the Supreme Court order a halt of the inauguration or would it continue?

Originally posted by Eulogy
It really depends on how the Supreme Court looks at everything. There is no defining code, regulation, or authority that describes EXACTLY what natural born means. It could refer to a natural birth (none C-Section), doubtful but bear with me.

I also had a friend back in school who was born on an Air Force base in Germany. Both of his parents were American. He was NOT a natural born citizen and could NOT have ran for President. I remember him being upset by this...Lol.

So, if that holds to be true, McCain would most likely NOT be eligible for President either. I voted for McCain, but at this point, I'm curious to see what Obama could do too. Fact is, neither of them may be eligible for President.

Do you really believe that people are stupid? Do you really believe that John McCain surrounded himself with a bunch of high school dropouts not capable of pointing out to him that he could have a problem to make it to the White House because he wasn't "naturaly born citizen?" Do you really believe that John McCain is stupid on his own not ask a few questions about his eligibility?

Do you think that the New Jersey dude can cream any Constitutional Lawyer in this country?

Of course you do.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

I did not vote for Obama, however I'm opposed to his being removed even if the Supreme Court were to find him ineligible.

Does the word Constitution mean anything to you? Oh I forgot, USA is in trouble, we don't need more so let's close one eye and accept to pay a little price which in turn might become a very dangerous precedent. Who cares, as long as the sheep sleeps quiet at night and has the daily bread on the table...What an irony





[edit on 21-11-2008 by Telos]

Originally posted by stander
Sec.305. [8 U.S.C.] 1405 still lacks the defining term "natural born citizen" required for the elegibility to become US President.

From all the reading I've been doing about this subject, any addition to US Code or legislation defining the meaning of "natural born citizen" would be unconstitutional.

The only way this would be possible would be through a Constitutional Amendment.

John McCain hasn't been issued any document stating that he became a naturalized citizen of the United States of A. What is his nationality, then?

Well, in theory when John McCain was born he received Panamanian nationality by jus soli.

I say in theory because I do not know how Panama's laws or constitution work, but usually if you are living in some country and you have residence there (as this was the case for the McCains), your child will receive the nationality of that country.

Some countries however make some restrictions, so we'd have to look into Panama's law or constitution.
Anyway, I don't think that is very important, since in 1952, with the Immigration and Naturalization Act of that year, when John McCain was 16, the US declared that people born to US parents in the Panama Canal Zone since from 1904 on, were US citizens.

At this point, my guess is that John McCain had dual citizenship. At least from a legal standpoint, not sure how that was reflected in his papers, and I admit that I have not looked into it.

But since John McCain doesn't live in Panama, and haven't in a long long time, my guess would be that he lost his Panamanian citizenship.

For instance, the laws regarding nationality in Kenya when Obama was born, Kenya was still a colony of the United Kingdom and United Kingdom Colony code applied. In this code any child born to a United Kingdom and Colonies citizen (Obama Sr.), would automatically receive United Kingdom and Colonies (UKC) citizenship, even if the child was born somewhere else.

If he was born in Hawaii, at the time of his birth, he had dual citizenship because of this fact. Shortly after, Kenya declared independence and this code would no longer apply, and the new Kenyan Constitution prohibited that adults have dual citizenship, so at this point Obama lost his Kenyan citizenship.

I have no doubt that John McCain is a US citizen, and so is Barack Obama. From my understanding however, John McCain is not a "natural born citizen", but a naturalized US citizen since his citizenship was declared.


edit: corrections and clarifications



[edit on 21-11-2008 by danx]

So the neocons are trying to cheat the people again. A majority have spoken on who we want and once again the right wing neocons are saying tuff #%*^ we wont listen to the people we are going to steal this election too.

Having both major party candidates with questionable birth places could be a very nice trick if the PTB wanted to orchestrate some sort of constitutional crises...

I hope that they can get their ducks in a row because the backlash of removing you-know-who would be far too extreme for anyone to postulate.

Originally posted by MAINTAL
Ill not ever like all the rigorous bull one has to go through with this guys past so sewn up and sealed tight at every turn. He did the same thing in Illinois as a senator and many there are STILL angry at what he did to our state now 44 Billion in the hole thanks to his "redistribution" of the so called wealth.

You aren't by any chance in the fertilizer biz are you Manny? I just have never seen someone so adept at packing so much manuer into so little space.

I have lived in Illinois my whole life and followed politics here closely here for decades.
Who is still angry?
What are you saying Pres Elect Obama did to our state?
How is Illinois current debt situation the fault of Pres. Elect Obama?

Originally posted by MAINTAL Plus there is the thing only us Chicagoans have known since Kennedy was Pres.
That to get from where he was to where he is now and knowing what we do about the Chicago Daley Political Machine, one has to be well connected to the Mob and he was, in addition to being one of the daley Darlings, which he is.

Like I said...I am a lifelong Chicagoan and I must have missed the whole Obama is Mobster thing. LOL The idea that every politician in Chicago is corrupt is just another far reaching attempt at guilt by association...and frankly given how it worked out for the GOP during the campaign I am suprised that anyone still embraces such a failed propoganda device.

* Mods...Please consider this an off-topic rebutal to an off-topic derailment/political baiting posting.
Feel free to remove this post along with Mannys if you deem it appropriate.

So if the courts declare Obama is ineligible, and then also McCain, and Bush can't run for a third term...

Maybe We'll be seeing President Cheney?


AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

reply to post by danx


"From all the reading I've been doing about this subject, any addition to US Code or legislation defining the meaning of "natural born citizen" would be unconstitutional.

The only way this would be possible would be through a Constitutional Amendment."

If SCOTUS rules on the term 'Natural Born' to mean what the plaintifs believe then that ,I would think, would set precedent for future inquiries without the need for a constitutional problem. It would become cannon law and would negate any need. But, I ain't no jack leg lawyer so I'm just asking!
Zindo

reply to post by Avenginggecko


Now don't go scaring people like that! You might give someone with a weak heart a heart attack talking about Cheney being president!