US Supreme Court to Conference on Obama's Presidential Eligibility

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


He did? When did he get that? And how does his citizenship from Indonesia fit in? (Assuming of course that the school paperwork that shows his citizenship as Indonesian are correct.) I've heard of dual citizenship, but I have never heard of someone having citizenship in three countries at the same time... Or am I completely confused here?

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

He did? When did he get that? And how does his citizenship from Indonesia fit in? (Assuming of course that the school paperwork that shows his citizenship as Indonesian are correct.) I've heard of dual citizenship, but I have never heard of someone having citizenship in three countries at the same time... Or am I completely confused here?

His not an indonesian citizen Jenna, his american born, and thats it. Get over it, his your president for the next 8 *cough* oh sorry my fault.. 4 years..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by stander

Originally posted by danx

I have no doubt that John McCain is a US citizen, and so is Barack Obama. From my understanding however, John McCain is not a "natural born citizen", but a naturalized US citizen since his citizenship was declared.

The eligibility for the Oval Office is quite nonsensical: If someone is born today in California, for example, his/her birth certificate automatically makes this person eligible to become the US President -- the person is considered "naturally born." But the person was born to immigrants from Iran and the kid was raised in strict Islamic faith that the person carried to his/her adulthood.

The great problem with his 'faith' or lack thereof, is that he was by Sharia law, born a Muslim, and since he is now a self professed Christian, he is under Sharia law to be executed by any 'holy' Muslim. And how is he supposed to carry out matters of state with any of his potential executioners? People are steered away by the press from a clear understanding of the Koran, and Islam. A good, devout Muslim, is a radical terrorst/jihadist. If you are a wishy washy kind of Muslim, you are a 'pretty good person'. Many visitors in the past who have traveled in Muslim countries, and in Israel, say that they are treated very well in the Muslim, but not in Israel. Go figure.
And back to his eligibility for POTUS, his/her religion of the moon god (the moon god Allah was one of 360 in Palestine, and his family had chosen that moon god 'Allah' as their family god) has nothing to do with their politics. Just that this country is predominantly self-proclaimed Christian, and most now consider Islam to be the enemies religion, so a Muslim would have a devil of a time getting elected here, to Chief Bottlewasher. But if that self same devil wants, it's theirs. Or his.

reply to post by Jenna


The fact that his father was a Kenyan citizen bestowed Kenyan citizenship to him at birth. To be honest, I don't know if he lost his Kenyan citizenship in 1963, when Kenya became independent from the United Kingdom or in 1982, when he became 21.

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

Source

Or in 1963?

There is no Indonesian citizenship. Southern Guardian covered that.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

McCain was a completly differant judgement. His father being a navel officer, there was already precedent set in our imigration law that military personels family where grandfathered in as citizens. He was also born in a US military installation. Its like being born on the premisis of one of our Embassys which is soverign soil. None of those criteria pertains to Obama!
Zindo

I think it is more about who is interperating the documents. For example, I was born on a "secret" US military base in Africa to American parents-but I am considered Naturalized by the Dept of State. Recently, I had to fill out a document to upgrade a license and it was rejected the first time because I checked off American citizen and not Naturalized.

We will see in so many days what the ruling will be. Hopefully it will put alot of this to bed (and hopefully I will not see anymore threads). IF not, there will be riots and worse like none seen prior.

They will do nothing, because there is no case to be made.

Obama was born in Hawaii, and the State of Hawaii has so certified.

John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which was a U.S. Possession at the time. That alone would make him a natural born American citizern. But, in addition, he was born as the son of a military person serving "overseas". By U.S. Law, all such children are automatically "natural born United States Citizens".

These nut cases do not have a case. They think that just because some voice inside their head tells them "the truth", then this is really the truth.

The person claiming to have been born in a "secret" base in Africa is a liar. There ain't no such thing.

To answer the question: "When will this be settled"? The answer is:
1.) It was never really a question except in the minds of those who, for whatever reasons, detest the idea of Obama as a candidate, a President-elect, or even a senator.

2.) When SCOTUS finally decides to stamp down the ridiculousness and declare Obama eligible.

3.) Never, because those people mentioned in 1. above will never accept facts. They grasp any flimsy "evidence" posted on the internet by people with mental health issues. In forty years, there will be some sad little corner of a website where bitter geezers will shake their fists at fate about the 2008 election.

Beyond that, do you really think SCOTUS will rule against Obama no matter what the documents reveal? If you do, you obviously have no clue how the federal government works. There is no way SCOTUS would unleash that kind of instability in US society. Even Scalia and Thomas wouldn't go for that. My best advice to many of you is to grab eight years of happy pills and find another hobby.

Originally posted by OldMedic
John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which was a U.S. Possession at the time. That alone would make him a natural born American citizern. But, in addition, he was born as the son of a military person serving "overseas". By U.S. Law, all such children are automatically "natural born United States Citizens".

This may not be true, because . . .

In April 2008 the US Senate approved a resolution affirming McCain's status as a natural born citizen.

en.wikipedia.org...

If there was such a law, the Senate wouldn't get busy affirming John McCains eligibility.

Now look at this madness: Joe and Jeannie serve their country as a military personnel overseas. Their kid is born abroad, but is inelligible to become US President. Who is more eligible to lead and serve the country than a person whose parents already did that? Instead, a piece of real estate decides . . .

Now we have a litigation going to preserve this idiotic Constitutional law and enforce it.

having voted for obama for president and come to find out he is not what he says he is ,that is wrong. the supreme court should persue this to the fullest for our forefather . if this is true and nothing is done we should let all the crimnals out of jail. please help

reply to post by danx

I'm not sure to what exactly you are referring to of not being an "officially binding decision".

I meant that the Mccain issue was not adjudicated, i believe the original suit was thrown out. I was also referring to the senate resolution.

WASHINGTON—Sen. John McCain was born to American parents in the Panama Canal Zone some 71 years ago. Does that make him the kind of "natural born" citizen the Founding Fathers determined could serve as president?

Yes, the Senate agreed, and senators passed by unanimous consent a resolution to that effect Wednesday.

Not that there was much doubt about it. Even Democrats, including rivals Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, have said they didn't see a problem with McCain meeting the constitutional requirement that only a "natural born" citizen could serve.

Still, there had been questions in the minds of some bloggers because McCain was born Aug. 29, 1936, in the Panama Canal Zone while his father was stationed at a U.S. naval base.

The Senate resolution is S. Res. 511.

I think that based on this resolution which has already occurred, that any judge who might have to ultimately decide on Mccains fate, would likely use this information to make the decision to allow Mccain or judge him to in fact be considered natural born.

I think part of the argument used, is that at the time of this law the US had no military abroad, so this was never considered as a possibility. So judgement would be in favor of not limiting the opportunities or penalizing the children military parents serving abroad.

I have also read that the intent of this law, was to keep foreign people from running for office who may have ulterior motives that could possibly harm the safty of the country. Since Mccains Parents were US military and both natural born citizens, I dont think this threat is there.

So having said all of that, i would have to disagree with you, and say that Mccain would be able to take office.

reply to post by sos37


"3. And I'm really not wanting this to degenerate into a hate thread. I do believe there would be some rioting going on in the larger cities as those loyal to Obama and willing to give him a pass on the "natural born" issue would protest the ruling in the only way they knew how - by rioting and protesting."

I'd like to know why you think that loyal Obama supporters would protest "in the only way they know how" by rioting and protesting?

To clear up the Indonesian citizenship issue. Obama went to live with his step father Barry Sotero(sp) and attend school when he was 6yrs.old.
In order to attend elementary school in Indonesia he would have to become an Indonesian citizen therefore Obama's step father adopted him to make him eligible for school. Indonesia in the late 1960's was a police state and did not allow dual citizenship. Whether he was born in Hawaii or Kenya becomes a moot point. In order to.claim.Indonesian.citizenship his "other" citizenship would've been renounced. There is no record of Barrack Obama going through immigration to reclaim US citizenry. And there lies the delimma.

reply to post by Gregarious


So gardeners are named "jose" now? Wow. Good going.

dunno if this has been discussed yet (didn't read all the pages of the thread) ...

but what happens when this sort of thing happens?
when a pres elect is found to be illegible?

do they put forth a new national election.. that asks "can a non-national be elected president??"

and if that goes through... can AAH-NOLD be elected after that?

on the flip side.. if Obama is DENIED office.. what repercussions socially would that cause .. and would that be as much a catalyst as what all these proposed "white supremacist" hate crime kids were planning to do?

yes there are two paths we can go by.....

i believe both paths have been pre-paved, in case either are taken.


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Originally posted by paxnatus
To clear up the Indonesian citizenship issue. Obama went to live with his step father Barry Sotero(sp) and attend school when he was 6yrs.old.
In order to attend elementary school in Indonesia he would have to become an Indonesian citizen therefore Obama's step father adopted him to make him eligible for school. Indonesia in the late 1960's was a police state and did not allow dual citizenship. Whether he was born in Hawaii or Kenya becomes a moot point. In order to.claim.Indonesian.citizenship his "other" citizenship would've been renounced. There is no record of Barrack Obama going through immigration to reclaim US citizenry. And there lies the delimma.

Barack Obama II resided in Indonesia from the age of 6 to the age of 10.
Whether or not he accepted Indonesian citizenship and/or formally rejected American citizenship, even if done in front of an officer in the US embassy, is immaterial, as at that age a child is not considered capable of understanding the ramifications of such an action, and is therefore not legally capable of making a determination to renounce citizenship.

It's the same protective logic which says a child that age is unable to consent to sex, as he/she is not capable at that age of understanding the full ramifications.

A key word in the act is "voluntarily". The case has been made that, as Indonesian citizenship was necessary in order to attend school in Indonesia, and Obama attended school during his 4 years in Indonesia, Obama must have gained Indonesian citizenship. Under Indonesian law, in order to gain Indonesian citizenship, one must renounce any other citizenship. However the fact that citizenship was necessary in order to attend school prevents the mandatory renunciation of other citizenships being voluntary.

Immigration and Nationality Act
TITLE III

CHAPTER 3-LOSS OF NATIONALITY
349 LOSS OF NATIONALITY BY NATIVE-BORN OR NATURALIZED CITIZEN
SEC. 349. [8 U.S.C. 1481]

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality-
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years;

but ...

US court rulings on dual citizenship

The following case seems somewhat more in line with the current State Department policy that loss of US citizenship occurs only when a person truly intends to give it up.

Marc Rich, defendant in a multi-million-dollar business lawsuit, contended that the Federal District Court which had heard his case lacked jurisdiction because he (Rich) had given up his US citizenship in 1982 when he became a naturalized citizen of Spain. The Spanish naturalization oath he took included an explicit renunciation of US citizenship.

The Second Circuit Court of Appeals observed, however, that "Despite his naturalization as a Spanish citizen, Rich continued to behave in a manner consistent with American citizenship. . . . Rich continued to use his American passport despite renunciation of American citizenship. . . ."

Although Rich asserted that his Spanish naturalization conclusively established his intent to relinquish US citizenship, the court said there "must be proof of a specific intent to relinquish United States citizenship before an act of foreign naturalization or oath of loyalty to another sovereign can result in the expatriation of an American citizen. . . . Despite mouthing words of renunciation before a Spanish official", the court continued, Rich "brought a Swiss action as an American national, travelled on his American passport, and publicized himself in a commercial register as a United States citizen."

Accordingly, the Second Circuit ruled that despite Rich's actions, he had retained his US citizenship because he had never truly intended to relinquish it.

Added to the fact that Obama was only a child, are the facts that at 10 years old he returned to America and made his home there, and continued to use his US passport. These prove a lack of intention to relinquish citizenship.

Originally posted by Gregarious
The great problem with his 'faith' or lack thereof, is that he was by Sharia law, born a Muslim, and since he is now a self professed Christian, he is under Sharia law to be executed by any 'holy' Muslim.

I didn't refer specifically to Obama; I didn't know that he was born Muslim. It appears that the Sharia law doesn't give you the opportunity to choose your own religious affiliation when your umbilical cord is being cut. Pretty strict stuff . . .

Apart from this legal hoopla, I personally don't like certain ideas regarding the future US Presidents. The foundation and development of the USA is based on Western philosophy, which I kind of like. I just can't imagine the prez from the future traveling to Mecca to fulfill his personal obligations to Allah. But I can imagine that the American people would vote for such a presidential candidate. They are losing their root identity and their passport will become the only proof of their demographic affiliation. Cool Hand Luke will turn into something, I don't personally care for. But it's like the rap music: I don't care for it, but others love it.

Obama isn't exactly the all-American type, but he's a homeboy. I saw him once on the tube and he made this kind of impression on me.

reply to post by southern_Guardian


First, no need to be rude. It is possible to say something on this board without being condescending when you haven't seen any more documentation than anyone else. And you can also quit with the "Get over it" comments. You apparently haven't read anything else I have posted on this issue or you would understand my position enough to know that what I want is for the law to be followed one way or the other, and even though I didn't vote for Obama I frankly am not all torn up about it. I hope he does a great job, really do, but he needs to settle all the questions surrounding him prior to actually getting in office.

Second, whether or not he held citizenship in Indonesia is something that is being questioned in some of those 17 lawsuits against him. It's not something I have made up. So perhaps you should tell the people who filed the lawsuits to "Get over it" since your comment would be better aimed there.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Thank you for the information, but I don't suppose you have anything from somewhere other than factcheck to back them up do you? They haven't exactly been completely honest about Obama when it comes to his voting record on taxes or his record on guns so I really don't think there is any reason to think they would be completely honest about anything else to do with him either.

Originally posted by paxnatus
To clear up the Indonesian citizenship issue.

You don't "clear up" anything when you post a bunch of rumors without sources. You muddy the water for those of us who are actually trying to clear this up.

Please provide sources that verify the following:

1. In order to attend elementary school in Indonesia a 6-year old must be an Indonesian citizen.

2. Obama was legally adopted by Lolo Soetoro.

3. Six-Year-Old Obama renounced his US citizenship.

Please see Indonesian Citizenship Law Here

Until we see sources for the above, they're just rumors.

You don't do anyone any favors by repeating the same assumptions and suspicions that have been used to cast doubt on Obama's citizenship. We've heard it a thousand times.

I could as easily say that Obama was a US Senator and has traveled from the US to many countries so obviously has a US passport. To get a US passport, one has to prove their US citizenship. Therefore, Obama is a US citizen. But without sources, I might as well be spewing nonsense.

Originally posted by Jenna
Thank you for the information, but I don't suppose you have anything from somewhere other than factcheck to back them up do you?

You're welcome. Those factcheck articles link to the British Nationality Act of 1948 and the Kenyan Constitution. What more reliable sources could I possibly provide? I don't know what would be considered more unbiased sources.