US Supreme Court to Conference on Obama's Presidential Eligibility

I agree. It's all a load of BS. His mother was born in America, so he's an American citizen, even though his father came from Africa.

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by Starance

Besides, the United States of America is divided, it has been for hundreds of years after the death of George Washington. .....Anyway, what should I say, I'm not an American, .....it has major problems in its democracy. Wish it luck, but I doubt the United States as it is now, the very foundations of it will crumble which then will bring its collapse.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Starance]

Yes...Its clear you are not an American, that explains your misguided views.

The USA, unlike most places in the world, is premised on the idea that radically different views, ethnicities, opinions...people.. can coexist and that despite those differences, when challenged we come together as brothers and sisters, despite our differences. It is our premise. That is the gamble we took when we created this country in the times of kings and dictatorships.

I wouldn't be so quick to confuse our plurality of opinions and freedom of speech for weaknesses, it is our strength. Think alloy.

I imagine in a world where the norm seems to be to mute opposing views to the establishment through violence, censorship and oppression, the USA must at times appear vehemently divided, when in truth what is being witnessed is the stark contrast to most of the world as the greatest democracy on earth evolves.

Americans are a giant family that argues loudly...a lot. But when challenged we are one family UNITED.

Beautifully said! If I could applaud you, I would! Sadly I can only offer a meager star and thank you again!

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I agree. It's all a load of BS. His mother was born in America, so he's an American citizen, even though his father came from Africa.

It is not possible for me to care less where his father was from.

This is about the law. I don't like it when the 'noble' thing to do is pretend like 'he shouldn't have to' be subject to a straightforward requirement. Everyone has to. Or NO ONE does.

I hate to break it to you, but whether Mr. O or Mr. M got the job makes no never-mind to me. They are both meat puppets, or they wouldn't have been allowed to run.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Maxmars]

Originally posted by zerop


This is all a load of malarky. Even the national review (a conservative publication) says so. His mother was an american citizen, and that's all that really matters - even if he was actually born in Kenya. Like it or not, Obama won the election fair and square. Get over it.

bench.nationalreview.com...

If that were true then SCOTUS wouldn't be wasting their time with a conference now would they?

By the way - the laws back then said you had to be 19 to pass on citizenship to a child at birth. Obama's mother was 18.

reply to post by Gools


No. 08A407
Title: Leo C. Donofrio, Applicant
v.
Nina Mitchell Wells, New Jersey Secretary of State

Docketed:
Lower Ct: Supreme Court of New Jersey
Case Nos.: (AM-0153-08T2 at the New Jersey Appellate Division without a docket number)

~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nov 3 2008 Application (08A407) for stay pending the filing and disposition of a petition for a writ of certiorari, submitted to Justice Souter.
Nov 6 2008 Application (08A407) denied by Justice Souter.
Nov 14 2008 Application (08A407) refiled and submitted to Justice Thomas.
Nov 19 2008 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of December 5, 2008.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~~Name~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~Address~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~Phone~~~
Attorneys for Petitioner:
Leo C. Donofrio P.O. Box 93
East Brunswick, NJ 08816
Party name: Leo C. Donofrio

reply to post by Aryan_Amy


Justice Scouter must be getting tired of denying all of these writ of certioraris. How many has he denied?

Originally posted by pjslug
Obama's grandmother said she was present in Kenya when Obama was born? Is that true or false?

I have my doubts. BUt bear with me:

Here's the tape

This is supposed to be Obama's GRANDmother, but all the while, the Bishop (interviewer) is talking about her SON. At approx. 3:20 on the tape, the Bishop says, "You can rest assured I am praying for your son". But then corrects himself.

When the translator answers, he says to the Bishop, "She says she is cover your prayers for her SON." (which makes no sense, but SHE said her SON.)

Then the Bishop asks about HIS birthplace. (no name, just pronoun)

She answers that she was present when Obama was born. OBAMA. Also the name of Barack Obama's FATHER.

Remember, this woman is Sarah... NOT Barack Obama's blood grandmother, but the third wife of his grandfather, so it is VERY possible that she was present when Barack's FATHER was born. In Kenya.

Obama Family Tree

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I agree. It's all a load of BS. His mother was born in America, so he's an American citizen, even though his father came from Africa.

No one is disputing that Obama (or McCain, since his name is also in the case filed) is an American citizen. What is being argued by this person is that Obama, McCain and Roger Calero are not "natural born" citizens, and that is a requirement for being President, and therefor shouldn't have been in the ballot.
This was, obviously, filed before the election, but if these allegations were to be proven true, they would have obvious implications for Obama.

Being an American citizen and being a "natural born" American citizen" is not the same thing.

I consider myself an Obama supporter, and if it were to be proven that Obama wasn't born in the United States, then he cannot be President.

This is not about political or personal preferences, it's about the Law. The same applies to McCain. In fact, from the research and the things I read (admittedly just today), McCain simply is not a "natural born" citizen.

As far as Obama's case, there has been alot of speculation on whether the BC is real or not, among other things. If Obama was really born in the United States (Hawaii), then all he or his lawyers have to do, if requested by a Court, is present that evidence and all of this be settled once and for all.

Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

So far, yours is the only hint of such activity. Why post on a thread you feel is unnecessary?

On many other threads dealing with this issue you see many people throwing around the political spin. No one has done that here. But your comments just may 'invite' such activity. The issue in the OP is clear and direct. The Supreme Court WILL be involved in this matter. What's there to complain about?

The Supreme Court may be involved, but the Justice's will dismiss this.

Barack Obama did teach Constitutional Law. He knows he has to be a "natural born citizen"...........

The simplest thing if Obama is declared not a "natural born" citizen is for the US Congress & states to pass a constitutional amendment to remove that requirement. It is beyond dispute that Obama is a U.S. citizen.

Republicans may go along with this, because it means that Arnold Schwarzenneger would also be eligible.

I consider myself an Obama supporter, and if it were to be proven that Obama wasn't born in the United States, then he cannot be President.

John McCain wasn't born in the USA either, he was born in Panama; his family was stationed there in the Navy.

It is not required to be born in the USA, it is required that you are born as a US Citizen, meaning that you were not a citizen of anywhere else first---the opposite of a 'naturalized' citizen which takes an active effort by the new citizen.

Neither McCain nor Obama were citizens of any other country than the USA when they were born.

Really, case closed.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by mbkennel]

Originally posted by mbkennel
It is not required to be born in the USA, it is required that you are born as a US Citizen, meaning that you were not a citizen of anywhere else first---the opposite of a 'naturalized' citizen which takes an active effort by the new citizen.

Neither McCain nor Obama were citizens of any other country than the USA when they were born.

Really, case closed.

I would agree with you if it weren't for the changes made in the Naturalization Act of 1795, that changed the language from "the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens"[1] that was in the previous Act (of 1790), to "and the children of citizens of the United States born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be considered as citizens of the United States."[2]

Why was the language changed? To me, it means they considered that natural born citizens are only those by jus soli (right of territory), and those born outside the United States, are American citizens by jus sanguinis (right of blood).


[1] Naturalization Act of 1790

[2] Naturalization Act of 1795 (full text version)


edit: added links.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by danx]

I agree with the litany of people who believe that this debate should hurry up and die – but I also agree with all the people who state that Obama needs to be properly vetted. Why in the heck would Obama drag his feet on producing this vault BC and just ending all this debate?

Is Obama just trying to waste the SCOTUS’ time?

When thinking about this question I came up with a scenario that I don’t think anyone has discussed yet. If anyone has discussed this scenario, please accept my apologies for reintroducing it.

Ok. Let’s say hypothetically Obama is tagged and the Vault BC says birthplace Kenya. Many say, “That’s silly, why would he lie? It would be too easy to get caught!”

Obama comes on the tube and says with a tear in his eye, “People of the USA, I am as shocked as you are! My deceased mother wanted to give me the best opportunity she could in the US. What she did was not illegal. Hawaii allowed Birth Certificates to be filed in Hawaii if a mother from Hawaii had a child born outside of Hawaii, back in 1963. I was too young to remember where I was born but I was always lead to believe I was born in Hawaii, and had only ever seen my Cert of live birth. I am shocked and dismayed and I was ready to lead you into a new era…yada yada bs bs yada”

Anyway, if things turn out for the worse for him, whether he knew or not (either all along or whether he found out on his own when he went to Hawaii after the first case was filed), he can still plausibly deny that he knew, play it up big, and turn that sympathy into a constitutional exception or an absolute certainty of major civil unrest.

And there you have my theory of how Obama and the spin machine could come out not looking like a liar.


grammar fix

[edit on 20-11-2008 by JonInMichigan]

Originally posted by Fletcher33
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
[mor

Ah... I see so the electoral votes he won are based on the fact that those states are bound by law to vote based on the popular votes of there state, where the other 24 states that do not require this by law can be changed in December? Do I have this right?

No Electoral Vote is bound by any law. They have the freedom to vote as they choose, regardless of the outcome of the popular vote. It will certainly be interesting to see if the Supreme Court finds Obama is not eligible to run and thus declares the election a roose and gives it to McCain.

There will be such RIOTING the like as we have never seen before. You might as well get ready for a Declaration of Martial Law when this hits the fan.

reply to post by jam321

You tell me how people could have voted for Bush twice.

You tell me how Congress was able to give Bush basically everything he asked for.

You tell me how Congress can pass anything they want and all the constituents do is complain.

You tell me how so many illegal immigrants can come into this country and the government don't know where they are at.

You tell me how Wall Street was able to do everything they have done and the government not know about it.

It is more than possible. That doesn't mean I am saying it is. Stranger things have happened.

Or how all those people with high security clearances and access to highly classified info can be spies and nobody find out about it...or find out when its too late.

Its amazing what people can get away with here in the states. Its amazing how many people will turn a blind eye to hide truth. If TPTB want a certain person in office or in a certain possition......it will happen.



[edit on 11/20/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by whiteraven
....
President Elect Obama's eligibility to become the President has been struck down by the US Supreme court.
....

Not true ...

The judges are going to meet to decide whether or not to hear the case against eligibility of three people, including McCain and Obama.

They have not even decided yet to hear the case, much less decided Obama is ineligible to be President.

The meeting of the judges to decide together whether to here this is the logical way to prevent every judge being individually asked to hear the matter.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I agree. It's all a load of BS. His mother was born in America, so he's an American citizen, even though his father came from Africa.

He was born in Hawaii and his mother is a natural born american citizen, so yes it is completely BS, his is most definatly a natural born citizen. Notice how the neo-conservative apologists here have moved away from the accusation of him being born in kenya and what not and are now trying to focus on indonesian duel citizenship... complete fail.

Let me go over this with you folks again... and I will be repeating this in other threads.

Indonesian citizenship is given to:

1. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian couple;
2. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
3. A child born of the marriage of a foreign man and Indonesian woman, both of whom request Indonesian citizenship for their child -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
4. A child born to an unmarried Indonesian woman, the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
5. A child born in Indonesian territory that is not provided with citizenship by his or her parents;
6. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents are unknown;
7. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents have no citizenship.

Source: Draft revision of citizenship law No. 62/1958

Notice the "child born" term there, that is in the case of a child as a result of an indonesian citizen and a foreign citizen.

-Even though Mrs Dunham married her Indonesian partner Obama was still not legally recognized as a citizen. As many here have said, including the anti-Obamanians here, indonesian laws during the times were strict on granting foreign citizenship. If Obama was 5 or under at the time his mother married his indonesian step father, he would have been granted indonesian citizenship, but because he was 6years old that didnt apply.

-Obama left back for Hawaii at the age of 10years, that means his time spent in Indonesia was 4years. In the Indonesian constitution an individual would have to stay atleast 5years in indonesia if over 5years old to apply for citizenship. It is important to note that the 5years has recently been extended to 15years.

-Even if for some reason officials went against the strict laws of indonesia during the 1960s and granted Obama citizenship, the very fact he left back for Hawaii in under 5years ment that any chances of him keeping his citizenship were stripped. Indonesian law never recognized duel citizenship and therefore he never had citizenship

-The kenyan citizenship "claim" was debunked numerous times by factcheck.org and politifact.org.
www.factcheck.org...
They do not recognize duel citizenhip and Obama cannot automatically gain citizenship even though his father was a citizen for various reasons as stated in the link above.

-Obama has provided the short form of his birth certificate as has the other candidates. The mans been running for 2years under the watch and analysis of both the Clinton and McCain campaign, under this current Republican administration and under the CIA/FBI and NSA organisations. The notion that some how they can be duped and mislead is... well.... ridiculous and hypocritical towards the many other arguments made in favour of the right wing.

-this "if only he would show just that one" BS is just another ploy for the right here to throw more mud following their bashing on Nov 4th. The man has provided enough evidence to the appropriate officials and like every other candidate has provided his birth certificate to the public to see where it has been verified as authentic by the major news outlets, the fact checkers and most importantly the state officials.

-The only people crying foul here are the same folks who have been posting other garbage about the democrat candidates. People who happen to be of the conservative base. People who have always had nothing but issues with those on the left (as could say for the otherside by nevertheless) this stinks of partisanship, and it is partisanship bickering.

I am actually real glad that we are finally towards the end of this where the supreme court will confirm the Obama as a natural born citizen. Will those over here be satisfied? No... apparent everybody who is not of the conservative base is in on this conspiracy. Just like the last 8years of lies... oh wait no the administration over the last years were those of the conservative base. My... the nation is in a great mess aint it?

And one more thing here....

Theres talk of as to how Obama managed to get into school where only citizens were granted that. Obamas step father was for the most part not the purest of men. He and his mothers relationship were in conflict into their marriage and the man was seen as somewhat troublesom. Obviously he lied about Obama and what not to get him into primary school in indonesia. Obviously his stepfather broke the law. That being said its not Obamas fault as he was only a little kid at the time and in addition had no control of his stepfather breaking the law of the land. As well I would say it was in the best intention of his parents to get him into school, regardless of the laws.

Originally posted by grover
SIGH!!!

One more thing... do you really think that the NSA, CIA and dept. of Homeland security would be giving him briefings now if there really was a question about the legitimacy of his birth place?

You know good and well both he and McCain were vetted by them well before the election.

I will not get involved in another Obama birth certificate thread... I will not get involved in another Obama birth certificate thread... I will not get involved in another Obama birth certificate thread...

Wouldn't matter if they did know. They can't just tell him they DO because they ain't supposed to know either. They claiming they do know would only get them into trouble also.

On one of the Sunday talking heads shows that I was flipping through, they said that these suits can be filed with a maximum of Four of the Supreme justices offices before it cannot be resubmitted. This could very well be why the judicial conferance is being convened to jump start the process or deny the writ. Just an opinion, but this seems to make sense! they have so little time that they need to see if a majority wants the hear arguments!

Zindo

Originally posted by whiteraven
If you’re beginning to be irritated by the Global monetary meltdown just stay tuned.

President Elect Obama's eligibility to become the President has been struck down by the US Supreme court.

So the will of the people is settled by a bunch of fat lawyers....

Scary.


Or of course maybe he was born in the US.

Well thank God for that.