BNP Member list leaked!

Originally posted by JasonT
But yeah, all extremists should be rounded up, put on an island and nuked to death for the benefit of humanity.

Your point of view seems a bit extreme...

INCOMING!!!

reply to post by blupblup


The BNP aren't technically right wing of course.

Theyre more national socialist.

They expound the principle that the state is more important than individual rights... check their policies.

Far right (in the politically accurate sense) = UKIP.

Originally posted by ermmm
Also with sites like redwatch ( www.redwatch.org... ) who openly put up pictures, names, addresses etc of left wing people i feel that we should be able to do it to them.


[edit on 20-11-2008 by ermmm]

I mentioned this earlier in the thread. I've been a victim of this myself. It didn't seem to be an issue then.

I think both cases of 'outing' are wrong.

I think we should remember one thing....

Police probe BNP link to car fire

BBC News

Violence has occured due to this leak. The owner of the car was not connected to the BNP, just allegedly lived on the same road as a member.

reply to post by infinite


Hmm I wouldn't be surprised if the leak was sanctioned covertly by Griffin and the BNP leaders.

These sorts of stories will only make more people sympathetic to their cause.

In short, any casualties or suggestion of casualties (ie Griffin's claim that BNP children are at risk) will lead to sympathy being garnered for their cause.

Its a double edged sword strategy, but it could certainly prove effective as the BNP become percieved as "martyrs" upon the altar of PC.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


You have spoke quite a bit of reason and provided balance throughout this thread, however, to suggest that the BNP are behind it all without providing any sort of evidence is, well, not up to your ususal standard.
Besides which, I very much doubt Nick Griffen and his advisors are clever enough to have thought of that!

The 'outing' of anyone's political subscriptions and affiliations, be it SWP or BNP, without the individuals consent, is illegal.
Neither should be treat any different.

I find it strange that those who support this outing and wish to deny BNP supporters their democratic rights are the very same people who complain about the decline in our civil liberties etc.
It seems they are not that concerned about the civil liberties of those that disagree with them.

Free to speak your mind as long you agree with me!

Deny ignorance?
Hypocrisy and double standards of the highest order!!


Edit to add:

Only the first paragraph is directed specifically at you soulslayer, the rest is a generalisation aimed at those who wish to deny the rights that they hold so dear to those that disagree with them.
There seems to be quite an abundance of them here on ATS at present.

[edit on 21/11/08 by Freeborn]

reply to post by Freeborn


Oh of course, I have no evidence of this.

I was just making the comment that if I were in Griffin's shoes, I may well have sanctioned such an action and then pretended to be outraged.

The leaking of this list was regrettable, illegal and immoral. The treatment that the members on that list are about to recieve is regrettable, illegal and immoral. But it does rather enhance the BNP's appeal to voters who will undoubtedly feel a tinge of sympathy for them (I certainly did).

Politically it would have been a masterstroke. I dont know if Griffin ordered it or not, but all Im saying is that I wouldnt be surprised... the BNP political machine is surprisingly sophisticated at picking off alienated and disgruntled voters.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


This person was not linked to the BNP.

No violence, regardless who it is aimed at, is justifiable. I passionately disagree with the BNP, but this is a democracy and BNP members are entitled to the same freedom of speech as I.

I'm not too sure soulslayer. I mean, I see where you're coming from, but browsing other forums where discussions are being had about the BNP leak (inevitably by anti-BNP types), people are celebrating this as the first big nail in the BNP coffin. I tend to agree with them. I really do think this will have done the BNP more harm than good. For even if, as you say, many people do feel a flush of sympathy for those outed BNP members, I don't think they'll be encouraged to help their cause or join the BNP. On the contrary - they'll look at the treatment of those outed members and be put off of ever airing their sympathies for them. In short, Nationalist views will be kept even more secret than they previously were.

The only way I could see this helping the Nationalist's cause would be if such extreme and unfair violence and threat were to be launched against outed members that it became a forced necessity to pick sides for many people. But I think things would have to get quite bad for that to happen.

reply to post by Cythraul


If that's true then isn't the "public" (actually only the media) reaction to the BNP and this leak in particular, quite unhelpful.

Free speech exists in our country, but only to the extent that the public will tolerate it. If I went around praising Hitler, I would be beaten up. It seems that BNP supporters are demonized in this manner, somewhat unfairly considering their policies are nowhere near as violent as Combat 18 or the NF or any other such openly neo-nazi parties.

I hope the respect of gentlemanly disagreement is accorded to the BNP.

Perhaps Im wrong about Griffin being the origin of the leak, but to me it does seem to make sense. The BNP always grow stronger upon being vilified; and I suspect they will thrive out of this leak.

A government minister in the Department for Work and Pensions, Margaret Hodge, also highlighted the increase in support by saying that eight out of ten white working class people in her London constituency of Barking were "tempted" to vote for the BNP.

The increase in support for the BNP was described by some as a protest vote due to voter alienation with the three mainstream parties (Labour, Conservatives, and the Liberal-Democrats).

The increase in support for the BNP was notably demonstrated by a poll released by YouGov, a British polling firm, that indicated that the BNP vote had reached 7% in the wake of media attention, a more than tenfold increase over the previous general election.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by 44soulslayer]

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by blupblup

 

The BNP aren't technically right wing of course.

Theyre more national socialist.

They expound the principle that the state is more important than individual rights... check their policies.

Far right (in the politically accurate sense) = UKIP.

Ok, well that's not technically correct either is it??
Let's as usual, agree to disagree.

Wiki seems to agree with me however and i have to agree with them..

Not only are they right-wing.... but they are far-right.... even worse.

Far right, extreme right, ultra-right or radical right are terms used to discuss the qualitative or quantitative position a group or person occupies within a political spectrum. The terms far right and far left are often used to imply that someone is an extremist. The terms are used by many political commentators to discuss political groups, movements, and political parties that are difficult to classify within conventional right-wing politics.[1]

# Sweden * Nationaldemokraterna - National Democrats[33] * Nordiska rikspartiet - Nordic Reich Party[15][16] * Sverigedemokraterna - Sweden Democrats[33] # Switzerland - Schweizer Demokraten - Swiss Democrats (SD)[34] # United Kingdom * British Movement * National Front (NF)[16] * British National Party (BNP)[16][35] * Combat 18

Source

Centre-right From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Center-right) Jump to: navigation, search The centre-right is a political term commonly used to describe or denote individuals, political parties or organizations (such as think tanks) whose views stretch from the centre to the right on the left-right spectrum, excluding far right stances. Centre-right can also describe a coalition of centrist and right-wing parties. Many political parties of the centre-right are known to have various factions and members who advocate right-wing policies.

# In Ghana: * The New Patriotic Party # In Great Britain: * The Conservative Party * United Kingdom Independence Party # In Greece: * New Democracy # In Iceland: * Independence Party * Liberal Party

Source


[edit on 21/11/08 by blupblup]

reply to post by blupblup


I normally agree with Wiki, but in the specific case of political labels, all mainstream media is wrong (that includes wiki).

That definition they provide is actually overly reliant upon the left-right paradigm which ignores economic freedom.

Some people still claim Hitler was far-right, when in fact it is more accurate to describe him as a fiscal and social authoritarian.
Someone from the true far right fringes of politics would be Ron Paul.

It strikes me as odd that when people talk about the "right wing" in moderate cases (ie centre-right) it is synonymous with economic freedom; but when it comes to the racist, collectivist groups such as the NF and Combat 18, they are called far-right when in actual fact it is more accurate to describe them as neo-fascist.

I think the link to the list has been removed for legal reasons.

Can i get in trouble for giving this link out on a u2u?

anyway if anyone still knows it, you need to check the list again today.

The person who is responsible for posting it has been recieving emails from those on the list and he has posted the email conversations he/she has been having back on the site.

Very funny - its a must read.

BNP = Racists = its that simple.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by blupblup

 

I normally agree with Wiki, but in the specific case of political labels, all mainstream media is wrong (that includes wiki).

That definition they provide is actually overly reliant upon the left-right paradigm which ignores economic freedom.

I kind of agree with you but also with the people you're debating the point with. The left-right view of politics doesn't really help anyone as in that it's too simplistic. However, I think the BNP themselves and their supporters don't actually help and often describe themselves as 'right-wing' if only if only to posit themselves as opposed to a 'left-wing'. I've met people that do this myself.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Indeed, and I think thats mainly to differentiate themselves from the left wing agenda on immigration (ie freer immigration). Its extremely simplistic, but it works well in terms of rhetoric during speeches.

I have always been, and always will be, a proponent of the four sector/ 3D affiliation graph of Social and Economic freedom vs authoritarianism.

in the UK its nearly impossible to be a white male... anything you say about immigrants or other cultures is labeled racist.. your not allowed to fly the country's flag because its seen as racist.. most men over 30 yrs off age who are going bald cut there hair short but this is also seen as a racist thing..

Originally posted by darkmaninperth
I used to live in Ormesby and Eston in Middlesbrough. I found a couple of people that I once knew on that list.

Still, I feel a few racists will be getting some very lively emails shortly.

I think it's ironic that they have made a list of all the racist social defects in England for our benefit. Now to set about rounding them up....

Give no quarter to a snivelling bigots. Down with fascism!!!

Originally posted by fatdad
in the UK its nearly impossible to be a white male... anything you say about immigrants or other cultures is labeled racist.. your not allowed to fly the country's flag because its seen as racist.. most men over 30 yrs off age who are going bald cut there hair short but this is also seen as a racist thing..

Fatdad, you utter the long standing complaints of the working man and you mistake political correctness as the cause. In reality the greatest oppressors of the working classes are not woman and ethnic minorities but vested institutions with immense wealth and taxation mad governments.

What has caused a near world wide depression, the Asian shop keeper down the road or rapacious bankers speculating on our future?

reply to post by masonwatcher


Well said... but the propaganda machine is too powerful.
People will always blame minorities because of ignorance and a lack of education.

I don't mean in the sense of maths, English etc..etc.. But education on immigration, on how and why we have so many Asians or blacks or eastern Europeans living in the UK.
On why we owe it to most of the countries and people of the old commonwealth and elsewhere to support and allow immigration.
Our country, along with the USA and many other western nations, was built by immigrants.... we called it cheap labour back then... but now is the time to be decent and do the right thing.

Originally posted by blupblup
Our country, along with the USA and many other western nations, was built by immigrants.... we called it cheap labour back then... but now is the time to be decent and do the right thing.

I'm sorry, but I find that offensive. Slavery and importation of labour (if they should be apologised for at all) were the constructs of the wealthy upper-class. The vast majority of the British ancestry had absolutely nothing to do with that and THEY were the ones who mined the hills, died defending our green isle, and developed the heritage of Britain. THEY are the ones whom embody Britain's true sprit. A very small amount of credit is due to immigrants. Generally speaking, the wealth and culture of this nation was built by indigenous white British people.

And before you say anything, I abhor racism, but I also refuse to pander to political correctness. I'll not play pretend that Britain's heritage belongs to black people or Asians because I believe in the truth - not the words we're socially conditioned to repeat. Similarly, I think it'd be offensive to Pakistanis, or Egyptians for a white man to claim ownership over their heritage.