US: It looks like the U.S. is in it's last stages.

If I had 1 dollar for every time someone claims its the "end" of the United States power/empire/authority/relevance/whatever, I'd be richer than Bill Gates. People are awfully excited to wish for the end of the US, but they keep getting it wrong...

I'm so relieved

You all had me scared there for a minute. I thought we were all doomed.

It's a good thing our founding fathers gave us a republic and not a true democracy.

On a serious note though, I find it sad that our founding fathers have given us this republic with tools to keep it, yet we seem to be turning a blind eye to what they have given us.

Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and many others are speaking to us. Were just not listening.



So Listen!

Originally posted by Rollinster
Yeah, it sounds great but it's simply words with no real quotes.

Paime beat me to it.

Welcome and beware.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Rollinster]

I know this is way off topic but I just needed to know something.

Is that an F1 Bridgestone Potenza tire you have as a Avatar?

[edit on 11/18/2008 by Andre Neves]

reply to post by Amaterasu


thank God someone understands me.... IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS PRESIDENT! the people behind the president are the ones that make decisions, the president is just the spokes person and makes believe it is his decisions... therefore taking all the blames

Let's say that the quote is wrong. If Tyler(Tytler) didn't say it, it clearly has been said now by someone. Therefore, has anyone attempted to see if the order proves true in history?

I am no historian but I am sure there are enough amateur or professional historians on ATS that can test the pattern.

Perhaps it still holds true.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Wolf321]

reply to post by Jdubbas1


hi. welcome to ats.

thanks for the post it is interesting. I would agree with what is said. i would like to add that, only caring about your country and the true members of it. leaves a lot of creatures beings and other humans that you couldnt care less about?

did u mean that?

thanks

I think when we close our borders we asking for trouble. I mean come on now and I know this is gonna start a flury of issues but after all if the native americans would have built a fence then nobody would be here except them and the mexicans as you call them. And some will say well that has been years ago. Well my grandmother was born in 1925 on a reservation and the federal government took her from my great grandmother and grandfather and placed her in a home for assimilation. My father was born in 1946 and was adopted at a couple months old to be raised by a white family not knocking nobody but we have got to realize what has taken place over the past 200 years. It will not be long till our father comes back for us and takes us home.

no big problem..something is always in its last stages or at crisis point..isnt the whole world in its last stages anyway (2012) Let illegals vote, let gays marry and have babies, let foreigners rule the USA, and drive your kids to school in a big hummer..it dosent matter, lets party like its 2012! oh and eat chocolate baby!

Half the truth is often the biggest lie. There is no doubt this is republican propaganda, but I think there is some truth in what it says. It's been spun to put blame on democrats instead of republicans, which the past 8 years have proven the republicans are not different.

But if people are ever going to get or understand the truth, rather than looking for 1 little point and dismissing it as false, you need to find and separate the truth from the propaganda and lies.

For example, we can remove all the statistics and arguments for democrats and republicans. Because we can easily prove both parties are responsible. So remove that bit of propaganda.

'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government.'
'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves
generous gifts from the public treasury.' 'From that moment on, the majority
always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public
treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to
loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.'

This however has alot of truth in it. But it's really not the entire truth. The entire truth is those promises made by the politicians are actually hollow in themselves. Everyone knows "free healthcare" is not actually free. And when you throw in things like the fed and inflation, the people who are dependent become more dependent, and as the other people are taken from, they also end up dependent.

On the flip side, the republicans have been pushing based on social aspects. The democrats have gained all these domestic programs, and the republicans kept them. The republicans however sell themselves many times based on being against those programs(in marketing only), and then infringe on the social liberties. Patriot Act and so on. But just as the republicans go along with the democrat programs, the democrats pretty much go along with these things as well.

Republicans will use the excuse - oh we have to allow these, the people expect them and we would lose votes. And the democrats use the excuse - oh they will brand us as unpatriotic if we don't go along, and we would lose votes. Throw in a corporate owned media all too happy to carry out these things, and give that perception to people.

Voting for the lesser of 2 evils. What does that really mean? It actually means you are voting for the guy who is going to do the least. You can give up your social liberties and vote republican, or you can give up your economic liberties and vote democrat. Which one do you want the most? That is what makes you a democrat or a republican.

Combine the government the democrats want, with the government the republicans want, and hello communism. Didn't see you hiding back there, but here you are. And when was the last time we seen a government agency disappear? Never. Republicans had complete control, what social programs were cut? And now that Democrats are in power, take notice of how many liberties you get back.

Even the part about Clinton reducing troop numbers - a lie. They quoted as shutting down units all over the place - a lie. I know this for myself, I was in the military when that happened. You know what really happened? My unit changed names. My unit was one of the ones supposedly gotten rid of - and in stats they did. My unit no longer existed. But what they didn't quote were the units created that changed name. The bases that close down all over the US? They are now overseas.

That is how we end up with a dictatorship. The pattern mentioned is on a general level true. But there is much more to it.

I could go on and on. But most people just want to look for 1 thing they can find and dwell on that, rather than looking for the truth in something.

reply to post by Andre Neves


Why yes, yes it is.

Nice. A fan?

Seems to me that the US was a set up from day one. The Federalists (Fascists) snowed the original states with the basic constitution which is a very bad document then accepted a subset of the bill of right, a very good document, to pacify the states when they realized what they had done and also to exchange favors leading to the 1st federal reserve. The US was set up as a tool and its systematic destruction began almost day one. The way the world works is that the strongest motives (greed, selfishness,etc.) are used to bring about good and benefit by accident or in other words despite the real intent of the perpetrators. Good as well as bad come from every situation. Sobriety, humility, sincerity arise from adversities. Periods of complacency result in degrading selfish indulgences. Both serve a purpose. It's the nature of life here near the bottom of creation.

reply to post by jam321

Well its hard to see the damage.

Some of it you can see in the form of the long list of closed
hospitals in California.

Some of it you can see in the school system.

but to behonest, you don't have to listen to the fear mongers
for the plans they have for us, you just need to watch a little
video on Aztlan Amigo !

www.youtube.com...

They believe that the SW United states is theirs, and they plan to
take it back.

You need to realize the mayor of LA is a member of La Raza,
and that La Raza means "The Race"

Sounds familiar...think 1939...

Originally posted by Rollinster
reply to post by Andre Neves

 

Why yes, yes it is.

Nice. A fan?

Definately, although I will admit, I haven't been watching as much since Schumy left.

ZEITGEIST:ADDENDUM (A movie/Documentary that will inform you on this very issue) A MUST WATCH!

Originally posted by Jdubbas1
HOW LONG DO WE HAVE?
This is the most interesting thing I've read in a long time. The sad thing about
it, you can see it coming. .....
'From that moment on, the majority
always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public
treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to
loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.'
.

I don't like to respond in a oneliner, but I must say that I am tempted by this post.
Dear person:
We measure our future by analysis and formulas of the past. In doing that we accomplish two things. We interpret our past and we create our future out of our past.
The interpretation you cite is beyond repair and I am not going to give the lenghty analysis, but "people nowadays don 't vote for gifts", they vote for well-being and they know that there is no wellbeing in gifts. Gifts are for beggars and people without hope. The fact that there are a lot of people without financial hope in the US is a consequence of the real factors that that society is on its end.

The US society is broken down by its financial intstitutions, not by its voters! If you hand out fake money, you create a fake country.

reply to post by Jdubbas1



"Democracy" or tyranny are both alienating political forms that take the power out of the people to concentrate it in the hands of an elite. In a democracy it is shared (while not opened) through social networking and power plays among an intellectual elite (people who have the knowledge of "how things work" in there), while in a tyranny it is arbitrary and self-sufficient, and is closed around one or a few persons. One way or another, it's there because people let the elite run their society this way, not because of problems in the way they perceive their relation with power. It's about if they take the power or not.

Democracy may be the best way of these to get more benefits in the hands of the people, but anarchism (read: unrestriced self-managed rule for ALL humans) is the only real way to get rid of this whole non-sense and let people take and protect their liberties. With democracy there is always a possibility that everything falls down into all-out fascism, and this is what History has shown at many times.

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

I don't see any reference to a concrete economical or political process here... just some idealistic-based vision of how society evolves.

One Word..PROFIT..As long as there is money involved, socialism will never prosper. If you want a free nation, a nation without poverty, a nation without greed, and a nation truly dependant on itself and its own clean resources,
then you are looking at a total change in the way our govt works. Our monitary system is the only thing stopping us from making that possible.
everything this world revolves around, is money. Money is a form of paid slavery, with interest. Back in the day, slavery was paid by giving the people shelter and food for trade. Today, slavery is run differently, people get paid to be sheltered and being able to eat. It is a form of slavery ran by Money. Without money, no matter what govt you are running in, you have no way to survive. The only way to free people from poverty and a true way of life, is to get rid of the monitary system altogether, for it is ultimately doomed, and there is no possible way of "balancing the budget".
Every dollar printed, costs (around $20) to make, because of loans from the federal bank, to our govt(which is made to pay back with bonds and interest). Home loans, car loans, ect ect.. is money that is being given out, that doesnt even exist in the first place. Its money made out of thin air.
The banking system runs all of the worlds governments, the governments dont run the nations, the banks do! So the more that we accumulate from these banks, the more we get in debt, because we never had the money in the first place. If every American paid off thier debt, and all of the debt owed in the united states was paid off, our country would only be left with $1(and thats being generous). So until we have the monitary system going, the more greed there is going to be within our nation. You have to think of socialism like this (Robbing from the rich to give to yourselves) Its not the govt doing this to you, its the financial institutions doing this to you. You think its just the govt that causes most of the conflict in the world, when really its the Federal reserves that leaves the govt. with no choice but to rob from other nations in order to make their own nation survive. Which leads to World hunger, starvation, murder, crimes, and poverty. America is a great nation, but it has darker sides than any other nation on the planet. Eventually, we are going to fall victim to our own
ignorance of how things really work, and its already happening(just look at our institutions today). We have accumulated over $10 trillion dollars indebt, not to mention the other trillions of dollars that are about to be spent. TRILLIONS of dollars, that came out of thin air with nothing to back it up with. All of that money you make every week from work, is money being paid to you that is already owed to somebody else, it holds no value.
We are amongst the greatest depression man has ever seen, and as we keep consuming goods of products that are owned by the banks(news stations, oil companies, tv stations ect) we will never get out of it.
The only way for a better life, is to get rid of the monitary system, and developing a system available for all people, and that is a Resource Based Economy. No Money, No politicians, no bankers, no crime, nothing but a free high standard living for everyone. And I am going to leaveit at that.
Thank you.
(if you dont agree with this post, then please, say something, because nothing ever gets done if people dont ask questions. We will always be stuck in the same culture based off of old beliefs, old ideas, and an old understanding of how things really ought to work)

when are people gonna realize it really doesn't matter, Republican or Democrat... they're both controlled by people you and I have never heard of and will never hear of.
"They" laugh at us analyzing the two and ignorantly hoping for something better. Anyone who thinks Obama is going to be any different from the past White House Criminals Alumni is sadly mistaken.

reply to post by Jdubbas1


What the 'professor' fails to realize or disclose is that the political party system itself is one of the greatest threats to 'democracy'. Dissolve political party sys-tems all together and you get a little closer to achieving a 'true' democracy by the people for the people.

Both parties have been 'owned' and funded from day one by the PTB that have no intention on giving up their monetary influence over the electoral process with the intention of achieving 'their' End. A Machiavelian modus operandi is alive and well while living off the past and Puppeteering in the present.

People of the world should be able to vote for the 'Individual' that clearly states how they are to benefit the people they claim to represent without undue influence influencing the so called 'democratic' process.



[edit on 19-11-2008 by Perseus Apex]

Originally posted by ReelView
Seems to me that the US was a set up from day one. The Federalists (Fascists) snowed the original states with the basic constitution which is a very bad document then accepted a subset of the bill of right, a very good document, to pacify the states when they realized what they had done and also to exchange favors leading to the 1st federal reserve. The US was set up as a tool and its systematic destruction began almost day one. The way the world works is that the strongest motives (greed, selfishness,etc.) are used to bring about good and benefit by accident or in other words despite the real intent of the perpetrators. Good as well as bad come from every situation. Sobriety, humility, sincerity arise from adversities. Periods of complacency result in degrading selfish indulgences. Both serve a purpose. It's the nature of life here near the bottom of creation.

This is untrue. The constitution was written as a document of limited government, not a document of limited rights.

When they were drafting the constitution there were 2 basic arguments, both very valid. On 1 side people didn't want any rights listed at all. They feared that if you listed only certain rights, then the people could be reduced to only those rights. The other side of the argument said the most basic rights should be defined and protected. Both sides here have a valid point. The solution to this problem is the 9th and 10th amendments. Which is part of the basic bill of rights, and it puts a lock on congress.

The 9th amendment says you can not add amendments that infringe on a previous right given(means the order is important). And the 10th amendment says that anything not specifically given to congress is by default given to the state, and then if the state doesn't pick it up it goes to the community and individual level.

This means if the constitution doesn't give government the power to do something, then they are not allowed to do it. Only the things listed are allowed.

The alcohol prohibition is a clear case of this. Back then it was being followed, so when the fed wanted to do those things, they had to add an amendment. It was later repealed with a new amendment(allowed because it wasn't a right). That is a how a limited government works.

It is their job to protect our basic rights, not to manage everything. Everything else is passed down to the states. Each state has it's own constitution, which also defines it's limited job. And when the state doesn't pick it up, then the communities do(traffic and civil stuff). Everything else is personal choice with the person. If a state is infringing on the rights of it's citizens, then it is the job of the federal government to step in. The civil rights movement is a clear example of when it is in it's proper role.

The politicians have created a loophole in Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution.

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

They have taken general welfare as being anything they can spin as being for good. And when has anything ever been spun as anything but good? What this is actually giving them permission to do is to uphold the amendments. In the preamble to the constitution, it states that part of the constitution is to PROMOTE the general welfare. The general welfare of the people are the amendments themselves, of which can be added to when needed. Article 1, Section 8 is the part of the constitution which gives the federal government to provide and enforce the amendments - as all duties are specifically listed.

The general welfare clause abuse has allowed for special rights, and for politicians to do anything that is spun for the good, so long as the listed rights aren't infringed on. That in itself has changed the constitution from limited government, to limited rights. Of those rights are now constantly being ate away, which in large part has happened due to the promise of false gifts.

The proper way to add things like education and healthcare is to add an amendment. Then it is automatically applied to everyone equally. But you won't see democrats talking about this, they only want special rights.

But those are bad ideas anyway, there is a good reason why it was set up this way. On the federal level, everything is centralized. It means 1 program for the entire country. If it goes bad, everyone suffers and who knows when you get change, you are at their mercy. Changes and new ideas come slow and rare. Meanwhile, if you drop it down to a state level, by default you have created 50 programs. Each able to try new things, which allows for the best changes to be found and tried. Other states can then adopt the best practices others find. When 1 state does bad, only that state suffers, and they have 49 other programs to look at to make it better. Take it on down to a community level, and you have 1000's of programs across the US. Each and everyone looking to be the best, because that is what the people want.

The more decentralized these things are, the more power people have over the issues. You have 1 vote in 100 million for president, you vote 4 years. In each state, you have 1 vote in a few million, and you vote every 2 years. You have more say in what goes on, and you can get changes easier and more often. Take it down to a community level, and you have a huge say in how things go. You only have to convince your community of a better way to do things, not the entire country. You can also find a community you like that fits you best, without losing your rights and having to find another country. This is how you return power to the people.

The constitution is the greatest government document in the history of man. But in this day in age, the true system is never taught in school, and people just plain and simple do not get it. In the end, it is just a piece of paper and if the people don't understand it, then won't get it.

I'll bet you the majority of people who sit around and talk politics have no real clue what they are arguing for or against, nor do they even understand how this country is supposed to operate. And if people want to keep their freedoms, they better learn it pretty quick.

In this country, following the constitution is now just a minority political party. Ignored and mocked by the mainstream. And what's screwed up about it is that neither side of the arguments contain any real truth. It doesn't matter which "side" you pick, you are screwed. Red team, blue team - same game.







[edit on 19-11-2008 by badmedia]