Those behind the Obama Birth Cert conspiracy

My God, some of you people are just plain lunatics.

You are so angry that Obama won, and your egos have been so wrapped up in the right-wing that you feel a part of you has died with his win. You've identified so strongly with a single ideology that having lost somehow means you have been personally affronted.

You think politics is a goddamn football game, with one team scoring over the other and "winning" or "losing" points. That's absolutely idiotic.

I think Republicans have some good ideas. I think Democrats have some good ideas. The reason that America is so divided is because some of you just can't let go. You just can't accept what IS and you go on fighting and fighting and thinking that you're ideas are the "right and true ones" and no one else has anything worthy to say, and you refuse to believe ANYTHING the "other" side says, no matter how much evidence is presented.

Grow up, get rid of your egos, work together and let's make this country great again. Together.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by astron1000]

Originally posted by astron1000
My God, some of you people are just plain lunatics.

You are so angry that Obama won, and your egos have been so wrapped up in the right-wing that you feel a part of you has died with his win. You've identified so strongly with a single ideology that having lost somehow means you have been personally affronted.

You think politics is a goddamn football game, with one team scoring over the other and "winning" or "losing" points. That's absolutely idiotic.

I think Republicans have some good ideas. I think Democrats have some good ideas. The reason that America is so divided is because some of you just can't let go. You just can't accept what IS and you go on fighting and fighting and thinking that you're ideas are the "right and true ones" and no one else has anything worthy to say, and you refuse to believe ANYTHING the "other" side says, no matter how much evidence is presented.

Grow up, get rid of your egos, work together and let's make this country great again. Together.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by astron1000]

Yea I have to agree. A lot of pathetic threads and they all involve Obama.

The only people to "independently" "verify" his Certificate of Live Birth is factcheck.org, which is run by Annenberg.

www.factcheck.org...

Obama and Ayers both were on the board of Annenberg of Chicago for several years together, giving out $10's of millions to certain projects:

A review of board minutes and records by CNN show Obama crossed paths repeatedly with Ayers at board meetings of the Annenberg Challenge Project.

The Annenberg Foundation gave the project a $50 million grant to match local private funds to improve schools, and Ayers fought to bring the grant to Chicago, according to participants and project records.

The project's organizing committee asked Obama to serve as the board chairman in 1995. Annenberg Project Executive Director Ken Rollings said Ayers was not a member of that ad hoc group when the decision was made.

For seven years, Ayers and Obama -- among many others -- worked on funding for education projects, including some projects advocated by Ayers.

"The specific job of the board of directors was to give out the money," said Stanley Kurtz, a conservative researcher for the Ethics and Public Policy Center and frequent Obama critic.

"Instead of giving money directly to schools, they gave money to what they call external partners and these partners were often pretty radical community organizer groups," said Kurtz, who also has been reviewing the Annenberg Challenge's recently released records.

www.cnn.com...

Can you say conflict of interest?

Is it that hard to show his real birth certificate or records from one of the 3 University's he went to? It shouldn't be.

Obama is employed by every single American to lead us. As an employer you should want to know if this man is qualified to do the job.

reply to post by astron1000


This issue will never rest until Obama releases the original birth certificate. His minions can cry all day about how real the COLB is and how "It doesn't matter". More lawsuits and a lot of wasted time, resources and arguing all because Obama refuses to clear the air by releasing the vault certificate. What reason could he have. Now Alan Keys has just filed suit www.ballot-access.org...

I voted for Obama but I am curious why he is spending the amount of money and using DNC lawyers to supress showing it. Why not show it. We all have to at different times. He is not above that. Is this the transparency he claimed that his administration will have but now he has a team of lawers working to suppress showing the BC? This sound like Bushco.

He can shut everyone up by showing it but yet for whatever reason he does not and chooses to fight it out in court. WTF, that does seem a little odd. I do think a little of what we read in these threads are disgruntle Republicans but I will never understand how anyone can try and justify him not showing a BC, especially if you voted for him.

I like the guy but I do not have a man crush on him and he does not get pass from me. In fact, now I am suspicous and I will be pissed if he actually ran knowing he is not eligible and would want him removed from office. Over $600 million is what he spent on his campaign but it does not buy him eligibility in my mind.

Given the growing weight of circumstantial evidence, one can conclude there is something about Obama's actual birth place and circumstance that put's his eligibility into question or disqualifies him.

If you have a valid document it takes a couple hours and at most a couple hundred dollars to have it notarized, witnessed, and stamped. This option has not been exercised and instead much staff time and many thousands will be been spent responding to law suits.

Reality being what it is, the elected president's eligibility will not be pressed further.

This has some similarity to the Florida recount issue in 2000.

Is the president above the law? In theory no, but in practice ...


M

Unfortunately, this has become a partisan issue. Pro-Obama cheerleaders attack those who raise questions, intimating that anyone who queries this matter is naive, easily-led, moronic, stupid, etc, etc, and, worst of all, a CONSPIRACY THEORIST.

Obama's refusal to pony up the evidence (BC, university records, financial aid requests, etc) just smells like one thing - COVER UP.

In Italy, the Italian media talks about Obama's Kenyan birth. Some of the Israeli press have discussed this issue. Apparently, his grandmother in Kenya has talked about how proud she is, and that she was there at his birth in Kenya.

Why this is happening, who knows? What is behind it? What is the plan? - because this thing is being orchestrated for some reason or other. Are they getting ready to sacrifice him in some way?

Stay tuned . . .

reply to post by Irish M1ck


I have seen where they verified they hold it, but I have yet to see Hawaii say that they have 100% verified he was born there. Care to source it for me? You know how much of a stickler I am for sources.

reply to post by Jenna


According to the AP:

State declares Obama birth certificate genuine

HONOLULU (AP) — State officials say there's no doubt Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

I mean, even without that line, you have to know that they were confirming that. Otherwise, if they are lying, then they are complicit with Obama and could see major legal ramifications.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Well now where has that article been all this time? All the people that have quoted the ones that only say they are holding it, and this was out there? Better question, why is this the only article that says that? Mind-boggling really...

And yes, either they are telling the truth or they have been bought off. This is a conspiracy site though, so you know which way some will lean.

But, as I have pointed out before, his birth certificate is not the only issue in the lawsuits so assuming that they did tell the truth and he was in fact born in Hawaii the rest of the issues surrounding his natural-born status remain. It is my understanding, and someone correct me please if I'm wrong, that it is possible to lose your natural-born status yet regain citizenship. (i.e. becoming a citizen of another country, then regaining citizenship of the first)

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Unfortunately

Yes it is unfortunate that folks here cant come to terms with an Obama win, there has to be some conspiracy or something wrong.

this has become a partisan issue.

Yes it always has been so. Notice those who choose not to believe the mans BC tend to be those on the rightwing political spectrum? How about the fact these are the same folks who have been posting the other garbage about the man during the elections?

The is a partisan issue. Funny you refer to only those who actually agree with the state officials and all the fact checkers as "partisan". I mean gee, must be one heck of world you live in to assume you must be right.

Pro-Obama cheerleaders attack those who raise questions, intimating that anyone who queries this matter is naive

No my friend, it appears to be the pro-palin neo-conservatives here who seems to attack anybody who have common sense to see this conspiracy as a fake. Everytime one part of the BS issue is debunked, folks, such as yourself, will go onto something else and well say this and that regarding those who choose to deny ignorance over this garbage. Its you "partisan" perception as to how you see things, but the world does not move in the same way you do.

easily-led, moronic, stupid, etc, etc, and, worst of all, a CONSPIRACY THEORIST

yes this is exactly what we describe the folks spreading these stories about his birth certificate. Wonderful.

Obama's refusal to pony up the evidence

The only people who demand he "pony up" are same rightwing leaning folk who accused him of being a muslim, a terrorist loving "gay" messiah. You know.. the ones who would never vote for him regardless... the now minority conservative base. The man has given more than enough evidence, certainly more than any other candidate. All the little "technicalities" including the indonesian constitution have been debunked and conclusion have come that he never had any other citizenship other than the nation to which he was born to, these United states.

The man has satisfied Hawaii state officials as a natural born citizen, his been running for president for two years now under the scope of desperate clinton and mccain campaigners and ofcourse his been looked at by the FBI/CIA and bush administrations. They have come up with nothing to question the legit of his presidency.

And here you folks are, still going on about his birth certificate. Mind boggling I tell ya.

Some of the Israeli press have discussed this issue.

Gee wonderful... we have conformation fromt he pro-zionist neo conservative whackjobs who have been messing this nations foreign policy up. The same folks who pushed the war with Iraq, this $200 million
a day war that has caused this nation so much damage.

spare me.

Apparently, his grandmother in Kenya has talked about how proud she is, and that she was there at his birth in Kenya.

And this is exactly what Iv been talking about here, that folks here are so ready to believe what some undisclosed individual behind a blog will claim to be about Obama, will post some audio tape that doesnt even prove its his estranged grandmother, and yet you folks are so ready to believe this. Yet when it comes to state officials and rival campaigners, no you just cant deal with it.

Its the worst state of denial from anti-Obamanians.

Deny ignorance.

Originally posted by riggins44
I voted for Obama but I am curious why he is spending the amount of money and using DNC lawyers to supress showing it. Why not show it. We all have to at different times. He is not above that. Is this the transparency he claimed that his administration will have but now he has a team of lawers working to suppress showing the BC? This sound like Bushco.

He can shut everyone up by showing it but yet for whatever reason he does not and chooses to fight it out in court. WTF, that does seem a little odd. I do think a little of what we read in these threads are disgruntle Republicans but I will never understand how anyone can try and justify him not showing a BC, especially if you voted for him.

I like the guy but I do not have a man crush on him and he does not get pass from me. In fact, now I am suspicous and I will be pissed if he actually ran knowing he is not eligible and would want him removed from office. Over $600 million is what he spent on his campaign but it does not buy him eligibility in my mind.

Hey riggens.

I think it all has to do with not catering to the disgruntled minorty of the voting populous who wont believe a thing regardless and will always make something out of something. I believe it also has to do with little technicalities these folks try to put in place.

In all honesty I dont think his spending that much money if you consider what his been left with following the elections, in addition these court cases have been dismissed. Infact I am yet to see whether this is costing him at all? I see it does for Berg and Keyes.... oh wait their cases have been dismissed

Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

* Anyone born inside the United States
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

www.usconstitution.net...

§ 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or
(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or
(4)
(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or
(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or
(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or
(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or
(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.
(b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.

www.law.cornell.edu...

reply to post by Aggie Man


Is there a difference between a consenting adult doing any of the above and a child simply being put in those circumstances? Certain things do not apply to citizens deemed by the state to young to willfully make that choice and therefor the choice is null.

For the sake of argument: if Obama is unable to satisfactorily prove his citizenship and has to step down (or be removed) from the office of presidency, does the vice president elect automatically become president?

And if so, does the VP get to pick a new VP or does someone else get "promoted"?

Having a conspiratorial mind and firmly believing that Obama is going to take a very big tumble before ever getting to exercise much authority as POTUS, I'm wondering if Obama isn't meant to lose his spot allowing someone that no one would ever elect to step into position?

For all the corruption that government officials are able to pull off, it shouldn't be too difficult to "produce" a birth certificate that would shut everybody up but even that's not been done. Obama won't do it and, at this point with his records sealed, he's the only one who can.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

All that was produced was an extract of the original with very few facts. His own grandmother said she was present at his birth in Kenya. Bring the woman here to testify. Oh wait, she would probably disappear of die.

He was born in Hawaii and his mother is a natural born american citizen, so yes it is completely BS, his is most definatly a natural born citizen. Notice how the neo-conservative apologists here have moved away from the accusation of him being born in kenya and what not and are now trying to focus on indonesian duel citizenship... complete fail.

Let me go over this with you folks again... and I will be repeating this in other threads.

Indonesian citizenship is given to:

1. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian couple;
2. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
3. A child born of the marriage of a foreign man and Indonesian woman, both of whom request Indonesian citizenship for their child -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
4. A child born to an unmarried Indonesian woman, the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
5. A child born in Indonesian territory that is not provided with citizenship by his or her parents;
6. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents are unknown;
7. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents have no citizenship.

Source: Draft revision of citizenship law No. 62/1958

Notice the "child born" term there, that is in the case of a child as a result of an indonesian citizen and a foreign citizen.

-Even though Mrs Dunham married her Indonesian partner Obama was still not legally recognized as a citizen. As many here have said, including the anti-Obamanians here, indonesian laws during the times were strict on granting foreign citizenship. If Obama was 5 or under at the time his mother married his indonesian step father, he would have been granted indonesian citizenship, but because he was 6years old that didnt apply.

-Obama left back for Hawaii at the age of 10years, that means his time spent in Indonesia was 4years. In the Indonesian constitution an individual would have to stay atleast 5years in indonesia if over 5years old to apply for citizenship. It is important to note that the 5years has recently been extended to 15years.

-Even if for some reason officials went against the strict laws of indonesia during the 1960s and granted Obama citizenship, the very fact he left back for Hawaii in under 5years ment that any chances of him keeping his citizenship were stripped. Indonesian law never recognized duel citizenship and therefore he never had citizenship

-The kenyan citizenship "claim" was debunked numerous times by factcheck.org and politifact.org.
www.factcheck.org...
They do not recognize duel citizenhip and Obama cannot automatically gain citizenship even though his father was a citizen for various reasons as stated in the link above.

-Obama has provided the short form of his birth certificate as has the other candidates. The mans been running for 2years under the watch and analysis of both the Clinton and McCain campaign, under this current Republican administration and under the CIA/FBI and NSA organisations. The notion that some how they can be duped and mislead is... well.... ridiculous and hypocritical towards the many other arguments made in favour of the right wing.

-this "if only he would show just that one" BS is just another ploy for the right here to throw more mud following their bashing on Nov 4th. The man has provided enough evidence to the appropriate officials and like every other candidate has provided his birth certificate to the public to see where it has been verified as authentic by the major news outlets, the fact checkers and most importantly the state officials.

-The only people crying foul here are the same folks who have been posting other garbage about the democrat candidates. People who happen to be of the conservative base. People who have always had nothing but issues with those on the left (as could say for the otherside by nevertheless) this stinks of partisanship, and it is partisanship bickering.

I am actually real glad that we are finally towards the end of this where the supreme court will confirm the Obama as a natural born citizen. Will those over here be satisfied? No... apparent everybody who is not of the conservative base is in on this conspiracy. Just like the last 8years of lies... oh wait no the administration over the last years were those of the conservative base. My... the nation is in a great mess aint it?

His stepfather obviously broke the law and went again strict indonesian laws at the time to get his step son in (maybe to score points with his mother) but yes thats out of Obamas control as a child.

I didn't vote for Obama, but I have said many times, if it were possible to prove Obama was ineligible to be President, the Clintons would have stopped at nothing to do it!