Treated like a dog,used as a punchbag:The life and death of a baby boy called 'Smiley'

reply to post by spikey

Regular beatings etc.

Brutal? Yeah...it is. But, treat people, especially defensless, innocent children and babies in this way, they should expect nothing less in return.

I understand how people feel rage in response to what happened. I suspect, however, that the perpetrator probably grew up with "regular beatings" and ritual abuse in his own life. What good did it do? That is usually a vicious circle.
I agree with Grumble, above, who says this:

My opinion is that expensive, illicit drugs and the drug gangs they spawn are a big part of it. Clearly, a national policy focused on decriminalization and treatment would go a long way toward erasing the thug culture we are experiencing, and it is the dehumanizing influence of the thug culture which helps to create so many sociopaths among the weak minded.

Drug abuse should be decriminalized and treated instead as a disease, which it most surely is.
Responding to violence with violence just reinforces and legitimizes more violence. You have to stop the merry-go-round somewhere.


[edit on 13-11-2008 by wayno]

Originally posted by wayno
Drug use/abuse should be decriminalized and treated instead as a disease, which it most surely is.

Well as long as people realize use and abuse are not the same...

Originally posted by wayno
Responding to violence with violence just reinforces and legitimizes more violence. You have to stop the merry-go-round somewhere.

I couldn't agree more.

reply to post by Jezus

Well as long as people realize use and abuse are not the same...

Thanks, Jezus for pointing that out. I've edited the original. Big difference, to be sure. And thanks for your support on the non-violence thing. I think people don't see how their instinct to use violence and the criminal's instinct to use violence is one and the same thing. The differing end or goal does not make the method right in either case.
Using extreme force to stop or prevent someone from causing harm to a child is one thing, but doing so in vengeance or as punishment is something else altogether.

reply to post by jakyll


No probs jakyll.I mean't to say thanks for posting this originally.I know there s alot to be cynical about govts etcI hate to say it but I agreed with Cameron as well.Was Broon stalling cos Haringey is Labour?I don't think that came into it but it does now.It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few days.I expect theres going to be alot of late night meetings at No10.If the Controller of Radio2 has to resign over the Brand debacle then the head of Haringey Socal Services needs a good boot up the arse out of the door.No excuses.Justice for Baby P.Just bear in mind what i said about Mandy.AlistairCampbell may not be pulling the strings any more but we know a man that can.Keep posting ,Candyfloss out.

reply to post by jakyll

I think that people whom do such acts or allow them to occur should be sterilized & prevented from procreating in the future.

I am just as sickened as all others on this subject, the following is a cut of my reply to a similar thread on another forum;

It has been said that I have a warped view of crime, but I am going to say it anyway;
Anyone that commits a crime against a child is, in their own sick effort, threatening the future survival of the species in a small way. These people bleat about their 'human rights', in my opinion they forfeit any semblance of human rights when they commit the crime, and they never seem to take into account the human rights of their victims.
My solution? There have been major advances in crime detection and proof since the abolition of the death penalty, what with DNA evidence and such, so any person convicted beyond reasonable doubt of abusing, hurting or killing a child should be executed, and their bodily organs used to help solve the organ donor shortage.

The above would solve two problems;
1. Rid the world of these scum among us, and
2. Go towards solving the chronic shortage of transplant organs.
I know that the idea of 'organ banks' is straight out of sci-fi, but I think you will agree that in principle the idea would work.

Roy.

reply to post by Finn1916


And don't forget rehabilitation and education. She is entitled to that too. And then on to a new life . Just google Carla Homolka.

I say they they should be put to death! Let God be her judge, just please let me arrange the meeting.

as a mother of three, this appalls me....children are our most precious gift...how can a government system supposedly designed to protect our mos helpless fail? its because people do not care about life anymore...i hope all those involved in this failure to protect this innocent baby suffer just as he did...rest well little one....

reply to post by HunkaHunka


some more news on this story:
news.bbc.co.uk...

Sadly and shockingly todays story, i dont even know the words to describe my thoughts on this: (totally separate case),

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by TortoiseKweek
I'm so God dam MAD reading this!! What the hell kind of people are these? Sick just doesn't come close to describing them. I hope there is going to be at least a life sentence. They deserve the death penalty, and even that is not good enough....In fact, the more I think about, that would be an easy out for them....

NO, these people deserve to have the same medicine dished out to them. Let them feel the pain they brought upon this poor child! My heart bleeds for this poor kid. I hope for this child's sake there is an after life, because this life certainly was inhumanely cruel ...

RIP Smiley.... I know everyone here at ATS who reads this story will think of you, and 'pray' for you in which ever way they do

8 Broken Ribs...8!!!! Spine snapped!! The more I think about this, the more the rage within me grows. I had broken 2 ribs in a car accident, and cracked a vertebrate, and let me tell you, THAT is Painful! Your breathing is limited, as every breath you take, that expands your rib cage, HURTS like HELL!! This poor child must have been in Agony.....I can't continue on this, or else I'll blow a gasket, and sure to violate about 4million ATS T&C's

[edit on 12-11-2008 by TortoiseKweek]

That is how I feel too!, I'm constantly thinking of this and still cannot let the rage subside.

It is not the brutal eventual murder that hurts so much, it is thinking of all the other abuse and torture before that happened. I don't think anybody could imagine that and everytime I start to think about this I have to stop myself from doing so.

The 'Sun' Newspaper (not everybody's cup of tea) has an online petition to bring the people involved with Haringey Social Services on 'Baby P' to be sacked and never work near children again and also the Dr Sabah Al Zayyat to lose her job down to neglect also. So all out friends from overseas, please sign this to at least get something done.

Online Petition: www.thesun.co.uk/news

[edit on 13-11-2008 by cra114]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Who said this family was on welfare?? Talk about generalizing.

I have seen people abused from affluent families too. Income has nothing to do with it.



What kills me is that people are investing by CS when they haven't done anything. They can't seem to get the right person.

reply to post by impala67


See our schools have a nurse. Most anyways. So if anything happens or you get sick you go to the Nurses office. She held everything from products for girls to ice packs and band aids, you name it.

Maybe that is what you need.

anywhoooo,

I really do think death is too good. I think they need to go to jail where every single day they receive the same punishment that they doled out for the rest of their lives.



It has to be a sickness or several mental disorder. I can't stand to see my child upset, much less hurt them. Of course every once in a while you want to give a good whack on the bum. But that is the max of it. Not beat them.


[edit on 13-11-2008 by nixie_nox]

[edit on 13-11-2008 by nixie_nox]

Updates.

The mother of Baby P, the toddler who died after a catalogue of horrific abuse, has given birth to another child in jail and wants access to the baby, according to reports....

She could be reunited with the baby following her sentencing, or the girl could be put up for adoption.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Social workers responsible for the care of Baby P tried to prevent his mother’s newborn child being taken into care against the advice of police, despite the fact it was born in jail, The Times has learnt.

Council officials did not want the new baby – a girl – to be taken into care as they said it was "against the human rights" of the mother, even though she was on remand over the death of Baby P.

A social worker told police: "We need to let her bond," but Scotland Yard officers eventually over-ruled Haringey on the issue. A source involved in the investigation said: “There was no way that police were going to allow this baby to be looked after by the mother.”

www.timesonline.co.uk...

In the wake of Baby P’s inconceivable abuse and death, Haringey Council has become the whipping-boy of outraged politicians and journalists.

Rightly so. There is a revolting complacency about Haringey’s local authority, as if the heinous crimes against this helpless child could be passed off in a hideous parody of a high-handed Lady Bracknell – to lose Victoria Climbie was a misfortune; to lose Baby P begins to look like carelessness.

But, in the launch of fresh inquiries and demands for Haringey’s panjandrums to be called to account, we need to be careful that we resemble not so much a rescue squad for future vulnerable children than a vengeful lynch-mob for the crimes of the immediate past.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../opinion/2008/11/13/do1307.xml

First, where the conclusion of an inquiry is that the child was failed by the system, there must be a statutory obligation to identify if this was because the system was not operated correctly — in which case disciplinary action against the operator must be obligatory, or because the system design or implementation was inadequate — again disciplinary action must be obligatory.

Secondly, once a child has been placed on the Child Protection Register there must be a rebuttable presumption that the child is better off removed from the home where the risk has been identified. No social worker or other professional can rehabilitate a dead child.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

There is not a man or woman alive today that could stop me from avenging the abuse and murder of children.
I will pray for the soul of this child and make it a priority to renew my love of children and all of their potential.
I am now known as the corruptor.
I will severely punish abusers worldwide whenever I come into their unfortunate contact.
Sick, sick people

I agree with nixie_nox , this s8i8t happen no matter the level of income.
Laws are for traffic accidents, if you want to abuse and murder, it becomes my problem.


[edit on 13-11-2008 by Filter]

It has to be a sickness or several mental disorder.

That's where I think you are wrong. Just because you can not imagine being so evil does not mean that such evil does not exist in people.

Those people had a choice. Their choice was unquestionably one of pure evil.

The question is how to purge such evil from our population without turning our society into a Nazi-esque nightmare.

First off I would like to say that everyone involved with this child should be held accountable to some degree, some more so than others. So many questions come to mind, so much anger and sadness to my heart. The mother and boyfriend ought to be put to death. The social workers should be held accountable as well. Loss of their jobs and put in a prison cell to rot. I am happy to see that the doctor (if you can even call her that) did lose the right to practice and care for children but, she should also be put in a cell somewhere to rot. Being bullied as a child is in no way an excuse nor a reason to kill a child. That in itself is despicable. To be so insecure, controlling an evil sorry sob to force a lil one to bow down to him. And tell me how one can text if he cannot read or write? That seems a bit fishy to me. As far as I'm concerned everyone one of these people are a waste of human life and should not be allowed to exist. There were clear signs of abuse and this child was left to die at the hands of not only his abusers but also the ones who were suppose to be in charge looking out for his well being. I mean damn get a friggin clue people. The mother being arrested for suspicion of assault and the social workers still gave this lil angel back to his mother??? I would make damn sure her and her boyfriend were never allowed to procreate again. If nothing is done to these workers I am almost certain other children will be left to die. And for this worker Mrs Shoesmith to say 'The child was killed by members of his own family. The agencies are not responsible for his death. The very sad fact is that you cannot stop people who are determined to kill children.' The agency IS responsible! They have a job to do and that is to protect these children. For her to say that you cannot stop people who are determined to kill a child, that in itself is stupidity to me, disgraceful and just plain wrong. No they are not going to be stopped as long as you allow it to happen. To the father, your child crying in such a manner would be a red flag to me, how could this man not know his child was being abused, how and why did he not stop it? He also should be charged. I would clean house if it were up to me. And the doctor to miss a broken spine and ribs? Excuse me but if you are given a referral by a child welfare agency doesn't that say something? I think I would have taken my time to look this lil one over. Five minutes is thorough huh? And she obviously didn't stop (or care) to think WHY the babe was so miserable. Talk about incompetence, On every ones part. Coordination is not the only thing needed here. Stricter laws, loving, caring, knowledgeable workers will be a start. Being held accountable for your stupidity and incompetence may be some incentive to do things right. I feel like so many others, this makes me physically sick!

I don't have the words to describe how I feel about what happened to this poor child. I can't go back to this thread again. It's just too much for me.

I see to much of this sort of stuff. Maybe that's why I speak out when I see a child abused in public, or beat on the door of a house where I hear screams of a child. I just hope that my interfence helps save a child. But I sometimes fear that I might be making the situation worse when the child is taken home. I do what I can. And hope for the best.

I'm fully knocked down. Being a father of a young boy of a similar age I'm devasted for days now. Wish I could have taken baby P with me, protect him. God, how can you let this happen? My understanding of mankind stops here. I hope a procession for baby P and all those little souls that don't get a fair start in life is organised. In that case I'll take the first plane to London. May little P be in total rest and peace. Stephan, Amsterdam (NL)

Judging from people's natural response to a situation like this

don't you think more action should be taken?

I believe social services and adoption agencies need much more attention/funding