Gay rights protesters disrupt Sunday service

Originally posted by nyk537
Listen, I'm not trying to characterize this as "all gays" or "all Christians" by any means.

Sorry, a thread entitled "Gay Rights Protesters at it again" is entirely loaded. It is a shot at Gays, and your back-peddling is tiresome. If one is going to exercise a bias, one may as well be prepared to defend it. If not, one ought to apologise for the misunderstanding and move along.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by JohnnyCanuck]

Edit - Clarity

[edit on 11/12/08 by niteboy82]

Why go into a Christian church and insult the people inside of it? How on earth does this help their cause? That is the same as a slaughterhouse owner going to PETA meetings pleading that all people should eat meat. Doesnt seem to make sense.

Only thing I can come up with is sensationalism. The radical part of the gay movement is upset they lost an election and are now venting. This doesnt mean all gays are in on this, just a select few. They really need to take a look at what they are doing, all of this negative press isnt going to help them in the public eye while they are trying to reverse opinions and elections.

Originally posted by salchanra
Why go into a Christian church and insult the people inside of it? How on earth does this help their cause? That is the same as a slaughterhouse owner going to PETA meetings pleading that all people should eat meat. Doesnt seem to make sense.

They really need to take a look at what they are doing, all of this negative press isnt going to help them in the public eye while they are trying to reverse opinions and elections.

What we may be beginning to see is a backlash by some in the gay community to the years of oppression and "in your face" criticism volleyed by the religious/conservative/right wing over the last several years of the Bush dictatorship. -- especially the religious zealots.
Someone spoke of gay graffiti -- have you not ever noticed those absolutely irritating crosses painted on almost every overpass pillar on major highways, or "Jesus saves" - and the same on huge rocks by the roadside -- almost always Christian graffiti.
I personally wouldn't have the balls to enter someone's church or mosque and throw fliers around, but I am glad someone did.
Its about time those right wing zealots got a bit of their own.

reply to post by niteboy82


I can certainly see your point. Before I go any further, let me give you this disclaimer. I do believe in God, I am straight. I have nothing against gays, I dont think if you are gay you are going to hell. I have no opinion on the gay marriage issue. Its none of my business as it in no way affects me.

With that said, a black man was just elected POTUS. Two women had legit shots at being part of an Presidential administration. This did not come about due to the Black Panthers, other radical racial organizations, nor did it happen because of heavy left leaning feminist organizations.

It happened because old preceptions changed. People like MLK Jr. made this happen with common sense and the ability to work with people not like themselves.

If the gay marriage movement is to succeed, you need to do it at the ballot box, just like Obama did. The way to do that is to chance public preception of your views and ideals.

Speaking to trees in a park isnt going to accomplish this, bashing people who allready dont like you wont work. Open a dialoge with the country, show the pros of your side and beat down their cons.

I know it can be very frusturating when you stand and fight for something you believe in and you cant win. Its a hard fight, but to show your frustration and vent this way will only produce more anger and hatred on both sides.

Present your facts and your arguement. If you win, great, if not, you lost. Retool and come back.

My candidate for POTUS just lost. I'm very upset by it. However, this is a chance for me to look at myself and figure out what I need to do to win next time.

reply to post by salchanra

It happened because old preceptions changed. People like MLK Jr. made this happen with common sense and the ability to work with people not like themselves.

Martin Luther King, the Black Panthers and the civil rights riots were all happening around the same time period.
It took all of the above to make change happen. Sometimes the self-rightious majority need to be shocked out of their complacency before they open their ears to the wisdom and pleas of the calm sage.
I personally am a pacifist in most matters. On the other hand it takes all sorts of measures in tandem sometimes to fight the inertia of an unmovable object like the "majority opinion".
I hope people get upset enough to actually open their ears (and hearts) and hear what, from most gay people, is simply a plea for fairness and equality.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by wayno]

reply to post by wayno


Couple of points. First, yes, sometimes we must resort to violence to change things. Take the American Revolution for instance. Sometimes a people must rise up with fists and weapons to create change. I personally do not feel the pro gay marriage crowd needs to resort to this yet, especially right after an election. The people voted, now they come out and protest. In effect it can be construed as sour grapes. "You didnt vote my way, so now I'm going to whine and march in the streets." The average voter may very well look upon this as an organization trying to usurp the will of the voter.

Point 2. What if this had played out differently and gay marriage was approved? Would the Christian organizations be in the streets and trying to get the governor or the courts to reverse the will of the people? Maybe. However, the pro gay marriage people would claim the will of the people and the issue is over. We cant have it both ways.

This just happened with the 2nd Ammendment. The SCOTUS ruled in favor of gun owners, the far left decried the ruling and started to look for ways around it. However, if the DC gun ban was Constitutional, the same people looking for ways around the law would have fallen on that ruling to pass piles of new gun laws.

The gay marriage advocates had their chances. They lost. Instead of trying to do an end around with our election process and bursting into churches, they need to bring this issue up again and again. The only way anyone can come out of this with any dignity is if we all play by the same rules and accept the results of the people.

Originally posted by nyk537


Well, well, well. It looks those gay rights protesters keep disrespecting the rights of others...I don't think this is helping their cause.

At least they didn't push any old women down this time.

How is this different than any other group being outraged? Stupid people are everywhere. I think the 9/11 truth movement should move forward, yet there are idiots that think yelling over people is the way to go (perhaps thinking time is of the essence and vocal outrage is best I suppose...). So, I might be clumped together with those crazies just by association. They do more harm than good. Such as these people. There are many gay people and couples that abhor this behavior. And just because I am a bisexual female, does not mean that I endorse these idiots. I'm not saying you yourself are clumping. Just make sure you separate the idiot from the task which must be done. Get what I am saying?

(I gave you a star, just in case you might think that I am mad at you. I am not. The gay movement needs direction, not crazies.)

reply to post by salchanra

However, the pro gay marriage people would claim the will of the people and the issue is over. We cant have it both ways.

Mm, sorry, I am not concerned with a technicality or procedural issue, however valid. What is right, is right and what isn't, well, you know....
There is only one right side here regarding desirable outcome, and lots of room for debate on methods no doubt!
I am happy the fight is being fought.
I welcome the jokers, the pranksters, the intellectuals and the radicals to join in because the opposition hass not hesitated to use whatever means they had at their disposal to oppress -- (even the idiosyncrasies of your electoral system -- this should never have been put to a vote anyway).

The only way anyone can come out of this with any dignity is if we all play by the same rules and accept the results of the people.

Trickster that you are, you almost sound right. The only way that you all will come out with dignity will be to stop using every trick in the book to delay whats right and just stop discriminating.

reply to post by wayno


I assure you, I am no trickster. Just a guy watching this mess unfold from afar, like I watch the buy out disaster, both bands screaming that Obama is either the Messiah or the Anti-Christ. Just watching and trying to keep an open mind.

Discrimination? I dont see that at all. If the offer on the table was to make same sex relationships illegal, that is discrimination. If it was to keep gay people at seperate universities, that is discrimination. Hell, if this vote was passed in the so called Bible belt, you may be on to something.

This was passed twice by the people of California, one of the most openly gay areas of the US. The people passed this, its not the government stepping in and imposing its will. Its the people.

If and when this change does come about, it will be because it is the direction that the masses wish to take their state and nation. As it should be. No matter what your issue of choice, pro gay marriage, abortion, guns, whatever, it should be the society at large who decides its fate, not the opinions of a few.

reply to post by salchanra

its not the government stepping in and imposing its will. Its the people.

Alright, that's the gist of where we disagree.
For you its OK for people to impose their will on others, if they are the majority.
Doesn't matter that the imposed thing is
- only hurtful to the minority it affects, but otherwise does nothing to improve anyone else's life,
- is based in religious teachings although its supposedly a secular state,
- is just plain crazy?
So long as the majority says it should be so that is all that matters? I think that notion has been eloquently addressed many times in this and related threads; obviously to no avail.
I could do no better to illustrate the folly of that value or belief. I think I will go take out the garbage. lol
get something useful done.

seriously though, theres a diffrence between wanting equal rights, and getting your panties in a twist because others arnt like you,
some.. not all.. but some of these gay rights dudes seem to think that if your not a homosexual then your dissrespecting their rights...
that if they dont get a door into every facet of culture then poor them thier being brought down...
thier logic is backwards..
homosexuals should have rights.. but no more than any other man or woman.. be it negro.. white.. straight... gay... they should be equal.. none should have special privledges...
kids dont need to learn about sexuality till thier in latter highschool... and things shouldnt be about the history of homosexuality but the history of sexuality as a WHOLE...
being gay does not give you right to act like your above others in your mindstate because your "sexually free" or # like that...
neitheer does being straight..
why does homosexuality need its own seperate special agenda and course? you like women or men.. thats it.. like who you like... dont expect to convert the rest of the world or think of yourself as better for doing so..

thats just my view on it

As a homosexual myself, I have to formally say: We're not all like that.

As with Christianity, Islam, or any other way of life, there are some people that would prefer to live their lives and leave people alone, and there are some people who become radicals.

Personally, I'm ashamed at the behaviour of some wanna-be civil rights activists. Granted, while I don't agree with the doctrine that all homosexuals burn in hell, I also don't think that two wrongs make a right.

just so everyone knows, im not saying all gays are like that.. but i am saying a fair few of the gays and the #ing do-gooders representing them (those "your evil and your a homophobe if your not gay or wont try kissing a boy" types) that i have met are like that...
but on the flipside... christians muslims.. and any other group have members who are the same...

reply to post by nyk537


I am not gay but I love my gays!
GO GAYS!

DON'T STOP!

I drove past a protest on the Pacific Coast Highway yesterday and they were festive!

Originally posted by salchanra
The people voted, now they come out and protest. In effect it can be construed as sour grapes. "You didnt vote my way, so now I'm going to whine and march in the streets." The average voter may very well look upon this as an organization trying to usurp the will of the voter.

Would that be like the Republicans now pi$$ing and moaning that their team wasn't elected? Really now, the Gays took a hit in California, and elsewhere, and much of it was due to efforts of organised religion...especially the Mormons. So why shouldn't they organise further and try to get it right the next time. Did the Blacks walk away from Selma and say, 'Well I guess that ain't gonna work'?

Jeez, people...live and let live.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I agree with you. It is just like the GOP crying right now. Its what Ive been trying to say in this thread all along. If the gay movement wishes to have marriages legal, they should organize, not riot in the streets.

Gay protestors

That's what's wrong with America. No morals from these sort of people.

I remember the story of the ones who surrounded the church(they didn't go in) and shouted, "Give us your children!" Scaring the young people inside!

reply to post by Clearskies


Gay protesters are the problem in America? I respectfully disagree. I think that the problem with America is extremist special interest groups and a government who caters to them.