Let's counter-attack the greedy bankers and elitists

reply to post by wintermarches


People could convert their cars to burn ethanol fuel. It only costs about $300 to convert and then you can make your old fuel from stale beer or old bread that people throw away. It is very easy to do and costs next to nothing. You could trade your excess fuel if you want for food or shelter.

reply to post by Flighty


I know how to make a website. Will you help me write content and get people to check it out?

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Sheridan

 

people stat home factories ( i swear im not high)

make like furniture, and tools and stuff at home! itd be awesome. it really would. Think of how AWESOME it would be.

just like the shakers.....and almish. put signs outside your house for advertising like _____ ITEMS FOR BARTER buy a website for 100 bucks sell it there locally. haha it would defiantely work!

this is gonna be FUN!

you start advertising your business, and they are gonna be after you for lisencing and taxes, if you bake a few loaves of bread to barter out, and let it be known that you have them....you're probably gonna have the dept. of health at your door wanting to inspect your kitchen.
if it was that easy, I would be doing it....but, well, I ain't sure of just how the laws are written and what would be required, and reallly ain't got the money to hire a lawyer to figure it out for me.
the website thing I am starting to consider.....
but, still, won't act on that till I check with someone about what would be required legally to do it...

have the website about done though, except for the coding the data bases and such....which, well, got the php, sql book right here on my desk, waiting for me to find the time and energy to crack it open and give it a try...
christmas is coming, with a nice two week shutdown at work....that's gonna be my christmas present to myself....get the danged coding done....
get it up and running, and hopefully in about six months or so, well, say goodbye to this standing on my feet for eight hours everyday printing silly little banners for a pay that doesn't even come close to what I would need to pay a doctor to help me counteract the deterioration that standing on my feet seems to be doing to my body!
got to get out of this line of work, it's killing me....

reply to post by Sheridan


fraking aye dude, you may have something here. I was wondering how we could do it and I figured we could just buy REAL things that are useful (instead of stocks and 401ks) and use those things to barter. Essentially you getting rid of your greenbacks for something useful. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that money was a middle man that we have to cut out!

HEYA!
Finally I am able to post here! This post is great , and to be onest i`v got this ideea for a long time. The pure exchange of good would not be a great ideea (still better than money in the case of a recession) , however a parallel money system shout be created.
This is a list with steps I guess are good

1) creating the "financial" regulations of our group. A limitation for the total ammount of "money" (credits?) you can "make" should be fixed - for older or newer members. For example, you should not be allowed to own shares that are greater than let say equivalent of 2 years of average salary. (can be extendend later, but no more than 100 years for example )
This way we would make sure people can reach decent levels of wealth without accumulating millions of years of work of the other members ( like the bankers in our days) . Also - other regulations should include the "banking" system - the database for the management of the credits etc

2) People should be allowed to create the money with their work - not the bank to create the money from nothing then lend them at interest. The money should be only created when a product or service is sold. To avoid fraud, every product or service should have a standardised price range.




3) people should be allowed to buy credits, using their national currency. The money then should be used to create businesses that are audited 100% by the group , in the benefit of the group.

4) people should not be allowed to swap credits for money - only the other way around. When people buy credits, the money should be immediately invested for the benefit of the group. The businesses created should produce goods for the members.

as example - 1000 people decide to create a shoes factory for the 100 000 members. Each of the 1000 persons wants to give 1000 $ . The 1000$ will be converted into credits, at a rate established by the entire goroup. Eacth of the "investors" will get credits for their $. Then the $ are used to create the factory . At this point, the group will have a facotry worth 1 million , and sure debts towards the 1000 investors (the investors got credit for their money )
If we think well, the large group is actually not in debts , as they do have a facotry worth 1 million. This facotry now will produce for the benefit of the group , giving us shoes. Later on I can buy shoes (using credits) , credits that would be used to mentain the facotry and give profit to the group.

Bit like how the society should work anyway ...
awaiting more ideas hehe , my break is over. Have a nice day !


ps: what business can you start with 100 $ ? but if 1000 people would get together, here we go - you can create something!

reply to post by dawnstar


php-mysql skills available here .

got an idea how it should work in the begining -
each member should have 0 points in the begining. Only one account per person ( this will be a problem ) . When you get a service, your account will get "debited" , when you create something, your account gets points.

There should be a limit on the how much you can go on plus or minus - let say equilent of 50 hours of work . For both plus or minus.

In the moment you spend all your credits , you cannot get anything anymore. Then you have to create services/products to get points again.

In this situation the global balance of the group will be allways around zero ! evrika!

reply to post by sty


o, to avoid laziness or people that abuse the system - the system should count all the points a member is creating . like ATS ? In the begining you should not be allowed to get on minus with more than 10 hours. But once you create let say 100 points, you can go in minus with 50 points too ( you will be thrusted now ) . Then we can have a rating system like e-bay , as quantity is not allways all that matters .

This way we can start small and safe!

however we should find a way to make sure a person is creating 1000 accounts and goes in minus 10 hours on earch haha. We need a way to validate one person !

[edit on 12-11-2008 by sty]

[edit on 12-11-2008 by sty]

i guess a Non-Profit organisation would be very hard to tax for using this system. There would be no profit in any currency involved, except points/credits used by the group. It would be like taxing Free Cycle ..

Barter is fine however you must convince the majority of the people to quit thier jobs which you will never do.Instead you have to convince the people that the central banks are causing thier problems and get rid of them that way.The easiest to convince should be christians.Jesus began his 3 1/2 year ministry in Jerusalem by driving the corrupt moneychangers from the Temple. He also ended His ministry by attacking the same thieves. It was the only time that the Lord used force during his earthly life.However knowing what needs to be done and doing it are two different things.I have explained to people exactly how they are slaves to the bankers and they just stare at me with that deer in the headlights look.They would rather go along with the status quo than go out of thier way to be free.

Great idea, but there are a few drawbacks such as power and water
and sewer. It would take a huge undertaking to go totaly barter.
But

if things have to have a value in order to get equal trade,
and have a good economy, why not print out own money?
Barter Bucks..

Set up values of items, Housing, Food, clothing, etc.
Set up a website and have people list what they have, its worth so many
'barter bucks' and they want to trade it for a item, they can check and see what
its barter bucks are worth.. really could be all virtual money,
would not even need to print it up. just place a value on it...
which could be done..

It has merit.. My other half is a Massage therapist , she has been bartering for massages for a while now. Sure she will takes paying clients, but for out call 'to their home' its open for discussion if they want to barter.
Just the other week she got a great trade, a hour massage for a compound bow. Older couple that didnt really need it any more, but wanted a massage.

Housing is going to be the issue, we can barter for most other stuff but would still have to pay for housing and normal bills.. it would be a while before a movement of this type got to where it could be self sustaining..
Not really sure it could be reached.. but could put a dent in their banking thats for sure.

I agree it would not be possible for all the people to be 100% full time in this system. The group(s) should be developed little by little , allwing that the group can create facotries and develope products that cannot be done by one person alone.. this way we make sure we can get the products we need.

reply to post by severdsoul


we would end up having part times jobs that would fully go on paying taxes to the governments then part time job to provide tax free products. At least the Barter job would give tax free products and services.
Printing money would be more difficult , I guess an online account that can go on plus or minus would be the best , bit like the feedback from Ebay. And the money should be created by the person that gets the goods .. why people want printed money haha.

For example - you have 0 credits, buy food worth 10 credits. Your seller has 0 points too - he is new starter too. (he sells you from his home grown !) . In the moment you pay for the food, he will het 10 credits , you will get a minus of 10. You created the money yourself, no printed money provided by government!!

Now you are in minus (minus 10) as a beginer you cannot go in minus anymore. You cannot transfer any money . Then you need to go look for work , or sell something in the system , right? While the farmer gets 10 credits he can use to pay someone help him for 2 days for example! All in a balance, the created money will equal the existing debtd - so the total balance of the entire group is zero!

How is it happenin in real life: the FED makes the money from nothing, lend them at interest to the banks. FED makes 100$ and expects back 102$ for example. The 2extra $ do not exist , so the FED creates the 2 $ , place on the market but expencts interest on the 2 $ too - creating ever increasing debdt.

This would never happen in a zero balanced barter system !

Bartering is perfect for someone wishing to pay less taxes.
If and only if you aren't a W2 wage slave that is.

For people who are tradesmen, they can barter their skills for food for example from a local hunter or farmer for example.
But his freezer is now full of meat for the better portion of the year for example.

He could plow the gas station owners drive and get his gas at a discount or for free even.
Because those wages never touch his bank account, the IRS has no means of verifying whether he earned that money or not and hence he can reduce his tax bill/taxable income.

The key is to reduce your taxable income to balance your mortgage interest and other deductions and you could live practically tax free !


Bartering has and is going on here in the Northeast farming community. These people don't earn alot to begin with and to hell if they're going to hand it over to the government to waste on bailing out their country club Banking buddies !

reply to post by wintermarches


shoes are no problem ,you barter for old leather coats etc, and use your worn out tires for the soles .plain and simple make moccasins ,a leather punch and threader are about 12.00 in canada ,so simple to do.

Originally posted by dizziedame
Bartering is good. In the south it's called horse trading. It's been done for years and I see much more going on now.

Did you know that the US government taxes bartered items? Yes they do.

You are supposed to be a good citizen and report all bartering on your tax return.

I think that is a ridiculous law except maybe if big corporations were to barter. Then the treasury would stand to loose lots of tax revenue.

The law is only there to make sure big brother gets his cut.

It is morally correct to break unjust laws. At this point we have a government which is conspiring with a few wealthy bankers to impoverish us. Obviously, barter is an intelligent way to create or maintain wealth in these times. So if the IRS would like to tax barter, what does that mean? Maybe, if I have no money because I can't get job, but I barter some fish with a farmer for ten eggs perhaps I should give the IRS one of my eggs. I can see some interesting lawsuits being leveled against the IRS if the government goes after barterers when the government is now as are as corrupt as a two dollar hooker.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by eradown]

The barter exchanges or barterers should form a defense league much like what homeschoolers have where they donate money to a team lawyers who challenge the IRS when the IRS steps over the line and goes after the poor who will use barter inorder to survive. The IRS will justifibly lose court cases if the IRS tries to make unemployed people pay fiat money on goods that were bartered for food. This will open the door for the barter economy to enrich all people with the exception of a few bankers.

Hey, your Paulson bloke wants liquidity, other things, and share dividends paid. I would say to shareholders, 'I want your investment safe, I am building up stock, and I am not paying you a dividend this year.' Is this out of line as an attitude in the US? I would shaft dividends until this sorted out.....

Isn't it said that if EVERYONE took all of their money out of the banks that the banks would collapse because they keep "making money out of thin air" and so do not actually hold enough to cover what we all have in the banks.

Let's do that.

[edit on 13-11-2008 by george_gaz]

reply to post by sty

Check out: en.wikipedia.org...
& www.kk.org...

I think there are a lot of ways a barter system could work easily using some type of Electronic money as a basis for exchange