Please tell me this bible verse does not mean what I think it does!

Originally posted by scrubsnstuffkim
I think that in the Old Testament, God was a bit selfish and didn't want you worshipping any other before him and he made sure that happened. He wasn't merciful. Then Jesus was brought into the world (New Testament) and died for our sins, then it became OUR CHOICE (not forced) to walk with God and be saved through the blood of Jesus Christ. If you read the Old Testament, alot of it was changed through the love of Christ (New Testament) from what animals are "Clean" or "Unclean" and sacrifices....

Again I might be missing something but the way I understand it is it became our choice if we wanted to be saved with Jesus or go to hell with the sinners who were constantly murdered if they did not convert.

reply to post by lawlb0t

The snake is not the creator.

It pays to read the Bible from cover to cover, and then live under it's guidance for fifty years or so. It becomes easier to understand with living, and gaining the wisdom of living. I have a wife, three kids, and 12 grand-kids. Believe me, the world needs a savior and guide. The Bible crosses through a lot of the history of mankind, and goes into cultural settings that are much different than those in which you and I live today. In the days of when the OP verse was written, the people being destroyed were worshipers of Molech. For that god, you would heat up a statue of the god to red hot. It would have arms bent at the elbow, elbows near the sides, palms up, arms raised 45 degrees. To properly sacrifice to Molech, you would place your new baby, alive, on the red hot arms and the baby would roll down the arms of the god into the fire beneath. Is it any wonder that God would want these people destroyed? Heck, we destroyed the Nazi's for something similar. Would you perserve the Nazi's, and condemn the US and its allies for being unfair to Nazi's?

God is not enslaving mankind. Mankind has free agency to do whatever they want, and are not being controlled. You live free. If you don't want to believe, don't.

reply to post by Simplynoone


Actually, there are many ways to Jesus. The Christian churches are identified by their common belief in Jesus Christ being the savior. They all identify Jesus as the member of the Triune God. There are some cults and sects that do not, and are not regarded as Christian. For example, Mormons (aka Latter-Day Saints). They do not believe in the Triune God. Their Jesus is an exalted man.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Ok real simple here
Israelites (Slaves)...Egyptians (who were keeping the Israelites as slaves)

ISrael wrote about their accounts ..(Slaves)
Egypt wrote about their accounts ...(Slave Masters)

I hate to tell you this but because of all of the ancient stone tablets that have been found. It is in question if most all of the bible was a lie and this was actually the other way around.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by The Stand]

reply to post by The Stand


Actually, the Bible is the most correct book from ancient history. It is supported by over 50,000 arch. findings, and over 25,000 documents.

I would tend to believe the Bible over a clay tablet, just like I would tend to believe a history book over a tabloid.

reply to post by Jim Scott
I hate to tell you but there are a lot more tablets than 50,000 that were written long before the bible and plainly show many many lies that are later retold in the bible as truth. The bible just changes the original story around and credits one god when the stories were originally about others, the bible tells lies. I would also like to know why Jesus is the most recent savior to be resurrected after three days, why is he the most recent to claim he will return? Why do people not thank the others who have died for us, it seems a little selfish.





[edit on 11-11-2008 by The Stand]

There are people who posted here that are not interested in Wisdom nor learning but in defending their own views. They have no knowledge or idea what they are talking about nor do they have a clue to who the God of the Bible really is. They have taken a path in life contrary to the teachings in the Bible and need to justify their own position. If you sin and theres no God no absolute then theres no problem. The Bible says it is veiled to those that are passing away. How can you explain the universe to the one who cant even make the ingredients in a cake. As to the one that supposedly want to become a Pastor and read what the Bible said and couldn't stand it,I say nonsense. God made you and he can take you out. And how can you explain that in heaven there is no sickness no disease and Gods love and warmth that there are many mansions and I have gone and will prepare a place for you . The one that sent His own Son to die for you to take away your sin so that you could have a relationship with Him and remove the blindness and truly see. I surely don't know how bad that could be. The Bible also says don't take your time casting pearls before swine. So with that said my last comment will be GOD IS LOVE AND IF YOU HAVE EVER WANTED TO BE LOVED CARED FOR AND HAVE REAL INSIGHT TO WHAT LIFE REALLY IS THEN FIND THE ONE THAT MADE IT. THE ONE THAT LIVES TODAY AND WAITS TO ANSWER TO THE ONE THAT HUMBLY WANTS TO KNOW HIM. ITS LIFE CHANGING, AND YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED. I KNOW FOR I WAS LIKE A GOOD PORTION OF YOU WRITING AGAINST THE KINGS OF KINGS.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Yes it means what you think it does. They would then rape most of the wemon and then kill them because they wouldnt be virgins. The thugs that where used in the bible had NO religion only a mob mentality.

and this would be your speculation based on what evidence?

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

People all over the world in every religion go through that kind of stuff. That is why personal experience still doesn't constitute evidence.

Though I don't recall asking for your testimony, it hasn't anything to do with the thread.

I believe that personal experience and testimony do constitute evidence in a court of law...am i wrong?

reply to post by The Stand


please site the archeological evidence for such

Originally posted by The Stand
reply to post by Jim Scott
[" I would also like to know why Jesus is the most recent savior to be resurrected after three days, why is he the most recent to claim he will return? Why do people not thank the others who have died for us, it seems a little selfish."

others may have died for you but they were not God, they did not rise from the dead and they will not return for you





[edit on 11-11-2008 by The Stand]

Originally posted by GladTidings
I believe that personal experience and testimony do constitute evidence in a court of law...am i wrong?

Hardly, that's why testimony and hearsay can't get people sent to prison alone. You need real evidence, more substantial.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by GladTidings
I believe that personal experience and testimony do constitute evidence in a court of law...am i wrong?

Hardly, that's why testimony and hearsay can't get people sent to prison alone. You need real evidence, more substantial.

im no lawyer...so is it that you need more than one testimony? If it is not considered "real evidence" then why would they call a witness to the stand?

Originally posted by GladTidings
im no lawyer...so is it that you need more than one testimony? If it is not considered "real evidence" then why would they call a witness to the stand?

Witnesses are useless without corroborating evidence and as far as I know, a mob of people testifying against someone is as good as none if they don't have some other evidence.

Without any corroborating evidence, their testimony is useless because it has no veracity.


But considering this as an analogy for religion is problematic because everyone has a testimony that asserts their religion as having effect, so that's like having thousands of disagreeing witnesses in a single case - useless without any corroborating evidence.

1. numbers is old testament written for a different people in a different time not for us.

2. mosaic law was fulfilled through the life and death of christ therefore fulfilled, therefore finished.

3. this is the new testament era, therefore a new covenant, one of grace not law.

4. the old law no longer applies.

Originally posted by GladTidings

Originally posted by The Stand
reply to post by Jim Scott
[" I would also like to know why Jesus is the most recent savior to be resurrected after three days, why is he the most recent to claim he will return? Why do people not thank the others who have died for us, it seems a little selfish."

others may have died for you but they were not God, they did not rise from the dead and they will not return for you





[edit on 11-11-2008 by The Stand]

and this would be your speculation based on what evidence? They were worshipped as gods and even said the exact words that Jesus did about his return before Jesus ever said it. By the way read the many Sumerian tablets written long before the bible for just a little bit of proof to what was said about the origin of the stories in the bible.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by seek4 truth]

Originally posted by checkmate
The New Testament helps all people, with the death of Christ It gives all mankind a chance to be saved from there sins, In the Old Testament man had to go through alot more to prove his love and to be forgiven by God. back then if you were to say no to God he punished you with his will through others.

So nowdays if we say no to god he doesn't punish us through others ?

Let see if we're getting you right here. If I for example steal a horse and then it's owner beats me into a fit, the owner is not acting on behalf of god to punish me right?

So logically if the owners actions are nothing to do with god, then they're obviously a result of the influance of Satan,acccording to religious dogma it can only be one or the other.

Of course I may no be punished immmediately for stealing the horse, equally i may not be punished at all if i ask for forgiveness.
However if I say no to god it's off to hell for me to be punished eternally by satan on behalf of god.

Not much of a choice there really is there? and it seems to be getting all so confusing but what stands out like a sore thumb is the fact that, god doesn't actually punish anyone he/she/it uses someone else to do it.

This is why kids prefer the myth of santa clause to the myth of jesus, it's far less complicated. Ie if your a good kid you get presents and if you're a bad kid you don't, all good kids live in the western wealthy world and all bad kids live in poverty in places like africa.

The idea of a loving creator starving to death an innocent child, in order for me to observe that I'm a fat bastard is completely repugnant to my own children.

Equally so, my own children are completely horrified at the thought that I would prove my love for the one by torturing killing the other.

Any so called loving creator, that would commit any act that would be an affront to the moral values of it's alledged creation can only be one of 2 things.

1 A delusion

2 A psychopath

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
For instance the much loved "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" story simply is not in ANY of the earliest versions of the Bible.

I'm not bible expert so I don't know. However, I do not find the quote to be out of place in the teachings(Judge not yest you be judged for example). So even if not an exact quote, I'd say that premise and understanding is legit. Kind of like you mention with him talking in parables.

As for the hidden part, I'd say it's hidden in plain view. I pretty much agree with you, it's right in front of their faces and they don't see it. When I first realized it, I was like wow. And it is frustrating now for me, because I did the same things I see these people do. For many years I did the same thing.

Not to mention that there are parts of the Bible that are shared with other, older, religions such as the flood myth.

This was actually something that for me gave the bible more validity. It's almost funny. All these movies that are geared to make people disbelieve in the bible actually had the opposite effect. When I seen that other religions had many of the same basic things, that was when it kind of clicked for me in terms of religion in general, and when I started to see that it wasn't the images that were so important.

From a non-dogmatic point of view, clearly the Bible is a compilation from a pretty wide variety of sources. I have no doubt at all there are parts that are reflective of Divine inspiration. However, I also have no doubt that there are parts added by men, to serve men needs, not Gods will.

I think if you have ears to hear, and eyes to see, as Jesus would say, you can pretty much hear the words that are Divine ring in your heart as you read them, in my opinion of course. I am sure there are many who are equally sure I am a heretic and going straight to hell. Lol.

I also like to understand the history of the document itself so that I can understand to some degree the motivation behind the additions and changes.

I'm not someone who thinks the bible is the only "true word of god". I think putting such restrictions on god is ridiculous. I have no problems with other religions, just the people who use them to manipulate the people who don't have the ears to hear. It is my belief that no "new religion" or a "world religion" is needed. Merely people just need to start to understand their own religions better, and if people start to see the philosophy and such, or have ears, then they will start seeing the similiarites they have, rather than the differences provided with the worship of the images/symbolism).

When the 2 symbols fight, they each play the evil for the other side, and "justify" the actions each takes, which in turn justify the actions they take. This directly leads to people on revenge binds and eye for an eye philosophy that will leave the whole world blind. But if they follow the teachings, then they will not be tricked into such actions.

Sad and yet amazing how people are so manipulated by symbol and can't even see the truth right in front of them. As Einstein said - Any fool can know, the point is to understand.

The fear of death drives the irrational belief in gods. Besides having yourselves brainwashed by your relatives and then others with similar beliefs you have preachers that will passionately continue the brainwash throughout your lives.

Dissatisfaction of reality also drives faith. This is true now and then (when man created god). When all else fails you always have your little invisible god in your mind to protect you.

I suppose this delusional security blanket is a good thing physiologically when it is not used to control others, or even worse to kill other non believers who are damned to hell by your wonderful loving creator.

The words in all the bible's are indisputably written by men. A sinful, errant HUMAN being sat down and wrote every single word of every single book. God did not take up a pen and write one single word. You believe in what a HUMAN being wrote 1000's of years ago. Your faith is based on a sinful FLESH being. If you want to base your life and after life on words written by uneducated (just barely out of the cave) HUMANS then go ahead =).

Imagine the fun life would be without the guilt that religion puts on our society for sex. If that made you rile inside then you are really in it deep .

Good luck with that. See you when we are worm food

sorry for not reading all threads, i use internet cafe so its difficult.
my opinion, Christian religions, ,, so many of them ,all use the bible, the bible is it totally correct?
We go to school and are taught religion,(from others opinions that appear acceptible) we may also go to church, again if you ask difficult questions what are the replies? there are many difficult questions.
Is ALL of the bible authored by god? 2 timothy says ,all scripture is inspired by god, if true then there cannot be any mistakes, because god is perfect and cannot make mistakes. compare 1 samual 15,3,4,5. to jerimiah 7, 31.32
Revelation last chapter, says nothing should be added to ,or taken away from the scriptures. So what is true and what is not?
The bible has been put together from 66 letters to the ancient peoples of the earth.( also the apocrypha?)
God is perfect, so where did the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL come from? Can god who is perfect know evil?
Was the devil evil before speaking to eve?
I think God must be good. all the evil is from the devil,even though it is written the bible as inspired from god.
We the people of the earth have been indoctrinated with information which we have little chance of proving truth.
If control is the main cause of us all, and religion is the drug, then we have been delivered up to the system from religious leaders, we work, pay taxes and contribute to the growth of the world, but for WHOSE benefit? amen