Near-death experiences are real and we have the proof, say scientists

You don't have to be near death to experience these out of body experiences i have had a large amount of etheric projections and iam very convinced from firsthand events that conciousness can exist outside this physical body. I don't really care who does or who doesn't believe all that matters to me is that i know.

reply to post by The Vagabond


Thanks for replieng, and please dont infer that i am a discovery channel geek, i cannot stand that channel.

The info i get is from hearing about something, from Talking with people, and researching it, wether online or in books.

Now sometimes, i spell very bad, as you may/not know i have extreme bouts of Isomnia, and will often stay up for over 36hours at a time.

Due to this, i sometimes find it difficult to rememeber specific names and theories.

So if my answers sometimes seem lacking or ignorant it is beacause of this.


I undertsand what you are saying, and it just arouses my curiousuty for the possibily of other dimensions even more.

I am not the only one, Cern has an experiment hoping to prove the possibilities of this.
i forget my point..... (I have had to stay up over 30 hours to get my sleeping pattern correct again...)

ATS attracts insomniacs perhaps. I have a tendency to get way off rhythm and end up pulling 36-48 hour stretches to get back in sync with society.

Anyway, no offense intended with the discovery channel thing- its just one of those things I am sometimes peevish about because it only gives the viewer a couple pages worth of abstract on the subject matter, but leads the viewer to believe that he has been made an expert.

I don't usually watch it, and I take you at your word that you don't, but I know for a fact that people who I think are very intelligent, and who I tend to trust, have told me things that I believed that ended up being simplistic generalizations or downright disinfo that they picked up on TV, and I think that form of information breakdown is behind a lot of the popular mythology that often muddies deep topics like this one.

Incidentally, if you want a book that will make it hard to sleep, I do recommend Michio Kaku's hyperspace. Personally I didn't have the patience to fully digest the entire thing, but I still found it informative. I know I just jabbed him for being pretty much the only physicist who the Discovery Channel ever interviews, but he gets fairly deep in print.

Edit to add (not real up on the cern thing, but if I understand correctly, the point is that at high enough energies the relationship between the various forces becomes more apparent- but I seem to recall reading that it's just not possible for us to produce enough energy for a particle accelerator to crack gravity, am I misinformed on that one?)

[edit on 10-11-2008 by The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Smugallo
Hold yer horses there dudes.

Have any of you actually looked at any of the other articles on the source link?

I quote "Britain's biggest banks use astrology to play the markets", "Mysterious ghostly orbs perplex researchers", "Mobile Phones are Killing Our Ghosts"

Hmmm. Credible source? I don't think so. This should no be posted in the Breaking News section.

I couldn't agree more. It isn't a valid journalistic site. It is koolaid for mental midgets. Nothing more.

Originally posted by Smugallo
Once your dead, that it. Nothing, void. You only get one chance get over it.

Indeed. Those of you who think there is something real about "I" which exists independently of the brain should do some research into neuroscience and Aphasia.

The Infinite Mind: Aphasia

Self and Identity as Memory

reply to post by Lilitu


...Which I have spent years studying.

Aphasia is a disturbance in the language function due to a lesion in the brain that (most commonly) affects Broca's area or Wernicke's area. In fact the 'person' him/her self is in no way 'lost' - it is just the ability of the person to communicate that is (usually temporarily) reduced.

I have spent a great deal of time working with such patients. What is sad is that the person is normally able to think in just the same way as they were before, and they often go through excruciating frustration as they can no longer communicate their thoughts via all the means previously available to them.

Another interesting aspect is that although speech may be lost the ability to communicate intelligibly via writing may not, for example, thus demonstrating that the loss is one of function, not intent (i.e. thought processes).

That link has more tracking cookies then I have ever seen.

Originally posted by Memysabu
I dont believe it at all.
Chemicals left over cause the experience.

Brain activity does not cease at the second of death.

OK look at it this way.

Lay down, close your eyes.

Get a friend to stand over you from a height & take a snapshot.

Then while you are still laying down with your eyes closed, think of how you look form above, looking down from the ceiling.

Picture every little detail of your body & of all the items that surround you.

Can you accurately describe everything that you see so that it matches the photo?

Maybe, but now realize this.

Most people who have these experiences, are in unfamiliar places when they go down. Some are brought to a casualty ward "already unconscious" and therefore cannot take in their surroundings (let alone from a height).

So you say, chemicals in the brain can see things from an angle (other than from the view of looking up from the bed, even during unconsciousness)?

Don't think so...

Physically impossible.

Sure the brain shutting down may cause some of the phenomenon recorded during these times, but as it has been said, the brain & the mind are two separate things. as the brain shuts down, it may very well trigger tunnels of light etc. But the mind will often see things that the brain cannot possibly see in normal circumstances or in a state of shutdown.


[edit on 11/10/2008 by Ironclad]

reply to post by The Vagabond

I dont think ats has attracted me, i have been a fan of 'fringe topics since about 5 , it started with paranormal, then ufos, then i got deeper and deeper.

I have been using the BBS sytem for years, it is great to use because unlike talking to someone, you have longer time to think, and i find typing comes naturally wheras talking does not......Maybe i just have differant brain chemistry.

I saw Dr.Michio Kaku on the bbc once, been meaning to look him up. he has some strange thoughts.




edit found it!

mkaku.org...

i will read on

It argues nothing but towards my case, we could very well be higher dimensional beings with a 3rd dimensional shell........

[edit on 10-11-2008 by monkeybus]

[edit on 10-11-2008 by monkeybus]

[edit on 10-11-2008 by monkeybus]

reply to post by cloakndagger


that sounds bad......

reply to post by Solomons


Here's a theory for you.

Mabe the release of chems by the brain is the trigger to tell the mind to vacate.

There's never really been an explaination as to why the brain releases a large ammount of chemicals at the point of death, other that it's a very stressful time. But hell, if the brail released chemicals everytime it felt a little stress, we'd be walking NDE's 24/7...lol

Mabe under certain circumstances, these chems trigger the right response & tell the mind to let go.

As for those who have never experienced it, well like you said, mabe some ppl have disfunctional glands or something, or mabe their chem releases take a little longer & the person is brought back before it happens.

Or mabe some people just don't have Souls... LOLOL

Some ppl certainly act like it. As specially Politicians, Accountants, Car Salesmen & Lawers

Actually I'm gunna go out on a limb here...

While we're on this subject. I have heard stories that the Reticulans are interested in Humans because we posses Souls "which they do not". Justr a thaught, with all their technology, they can actually pinpoint the soul in a human.

So mabe someday, we too will have the technology to be able to map the soul, as we now do with DNA.

[edit on 11/10/2008 by Ironclad]

Originally posted by Ironclad
reply to post by Solomons

 

Or mabe some people just don't have Souls... LOLOL

Some ppl certainly act like it. As specially Politicians, Accountants, Car Salesmen & Lawers

[edit on 11/10/2008 by Ironclad]

These people have an adjenda, and they are all trying to sell you something, and that would be Bullsh!t

They focus on what the most important thing in the world is to them, There own ass.

Originally posted by InterestedObserver
reply to post by mmariebored

 

Not true. It can be proven when they see things that could only be seen from a point of view looking down from the ceiling of the room, which has happened.

I'm not saying there are no legit cases and that it's completely impossible, but it's one of those studies where 90% of the cases will undoubtedly be playing up their life-long imaginations as REAL.

If someone dreams of Heaven all their life, based on what they hope it will be, what kind of dream do you think their brain will produce when it thinks it's going to die? Your brain knows when it's under duress and near death and it searches any and every possible corridor on it's way out to save itself...corridors you yourself created. Even ones that have not been tapped since early childhood(*). You know that most people, when under extreme duress, revert to child-like mentality? That's where your brain goes, and all the imaginations you created in that section of storage are revisited.

My point isn't about the impossibility of other dimentions and reaching those, it's about sorting and defining with scientific proof past the imagined, and I'm not convinced so far.


*which explains why your "whole life flashes before your eyes", it's your brain searching for some way to save itself.






[edit on 10-11-2008 by mmariebored]

Originally posted by Solomons

Can you answer why many people are revived from death and have no NDE.Someone described it to me as simply waking up after a sleep...ie no tunnels,lights outer body experiences.So if this a natural phenomena that happens to the conscious,then why do these people not have NDE's...im pretty sure they have a conscious.Or could it be certain levels of chemicals released that vary person to person due to body chemistry therefore some people have NDE's and others do not? It is interesting though...

Interesting question.
Dr.van Lommel (see book previous post pg1) had the insight to say that the fact that NOT everybody has a recollection of a NDE is proof for the fact that NDE's are not a standard brainfunction reaction after shutting down (as many neurologist often say).
So it could be that it is not a standard function but a personal event, with often similar facets, but a highly personal content.

On the other hand a lot of people wake up without a recollection of a dream, so they say they don't dream, while according to brainfuntion analysis while sleeping, everybody dreams. So it just as well could be that everybody goes throughit but not everybody remembers.

reply to post by mmariebored


Don't be frightened of exploring your own mind and accept Life as Life and the flesh as the flesh.

See the world as it is, not as you want it to be.

The world will always be, what it truly is, no matter what you believe, or disbelieve, or what others speculate.

Explore the Mind and accept what you find and fear nothing at all, for your mind is a droplet of the True Mind and will remain that way forever, no matter what you believe or what others believe.

The world you experience is just that, an experience and is Not everything.

You can not possibly say there is no life, and only a biological form, if you have not experienced so called death.

Let not you put your trust in any primate, but in "The True Mind" only, which the mind you are aware of, is a droplet of The Total Mind.

You or anyone else, including me, can Not change this fact, by pretending or closing your mind.

The True Mind always wins don't pick a fight with life. If you do you shall loose.

Trust The Mind and Not the Primate or your flesh, whose speculation and reasoning is based on a Double Logic System that is in your DNA.

reply to post by Ironclad


The chemicals don't produce your functions, they are only the side effects and chain reaction carriers.

DNA is a Chemical Program, that lays down the format of the human interface.

Chemicals produce chain reactions as a result of decoding and functions within the human interface and are Not the generating system itself.

There is a program that produces the DNA structure, and can only be changed through the use of an Optical Interface with The True Mind! This is the Direct method.

Or by mixing genes through breading. This is the indirect method.

The human Primate is really a biological machine or robot controlled by The "Inner" Mind to some extent and Directly controlled by The "Outer" mind, in the Geographical sense.

The Outer Mind lays down the Environmental Program and the Inner Mind makes the Choices within the Environment Program but within the boundaries of the programs chosen by the Outer Mind in the first place.



[edit on 10-11-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


But what dose this mean to Life after death?

I don't realy understand what you are saying here. The brain controls the body, but the mind onlt partially controls the brain?

Almost sounds to me like your saying that two beings live within us all. the outer being & the inner being, which are two seperate entities.

So my Mind is just along for the ride & soaking up the exoeriences of the body through the brain?

Did I come close to what you were trying to explain?

reply to post by Ironclad


it's kind of right though. Think about it,when you walk,are you actually telling your right leg to go infront of your left leg,or does it just do it without "you" thinking about it? The subconscious mind pretty much controls what you do and how you feel,without the conscious mind knowing much about it. It is like having 2 people working indipendantly on the same thing. Becoming aware of this other part of you (and that's just what it is) is an integral part of awakening yourself to your potential. What it means for life after death? I donnu,I guess you're reunited with this other self and combine the knowlage you've learn in this lifes experience,prehaps. Who knows for sure.

its bull# dude, NDEs are chemical reactions, check this research:

www.livescience.com...

reply to post by hypnoticka


That still doesn't explain veridical NDE's.

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by mmariebored
Don't be frightened of exploring your own mind and accept Life as Life and the flesh as the flesh. See the world as it is, not as you want it to be.

Where did this come from? What the heck is wrong with you?

The world will always be, what it truly is, no matter what you believe, or disbelieve, or what others speculate.
Explore the Mind and accept what you find and fear nothing at all, for your mind is a droplet of the True Mind and will remain that way forever, no matter what you believe or what others believe.
The world you experience is just that, an experience and is Not everything.

No kidding.

You can not possibly say there is no life, and only a biological form, if you have not experienced so called death.

Now, you're freaking me out -plus- I never said that.

Let not you put your trust in any primate, but in "The True Mind" only, which the mind you are aware of, is a droplet of The Total Mind.
You or anyone else, including me, can Not change this fact, by pretending or closing your mind.
The True Mind always wins don't pick a fight with life. If you do you shall loose.
Trust The Mind and Not the Primate or your flesh, whose speculation and reasoning is based on a Double Logic System that is in your DNA.

Read a few posts back. I already know there's more to life than these palpable dimentions. My point is that EEGs will not prove that what you THINK are other dimentions you visited during your NDE are not just dreams you had in the waking process.