God is no Hoax, God is Alive

Just because believers (as I am) utilize faith in their belief system, it does NOT negate the existence of God. Science and Religion CAN co-exist. What I mean by that, is that we simply don't have ALL the information yet. The authors of the Bible had no way of knowing about dinosaurs because their experiences were limited to the eastern Mediterranean region of the World. All the stories of the Bible were handed down (Old Testament) generation to generation. Some astro-physicists are now claiming that there is more reason to believe in some sort of "intelligent design" than not. Some scientists will claim (as Stalin did) that Religion is "the opiate of the masses", that it is some sort of "feel-good" process that justifies their pain and suffering, and enables them to persevere through hard and difficult times. However, atheists cannot explain the healing benefits, and other spiritual rewards that believers claim. If you reject the eye-witness testimony of the Resurrection of Christ as a historical event, then one must also question any other "historical event" that is supposedly "eye-witnessed". Just something to think about.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by Randy Echo]
this was copied from another source , thought it might apply here. It is not my writing.

"Who says faith will heal? Christians." : Yes. My wife was diagnosed with an ovarian cyst and pancreatic lesion - most probably cancerous - and was given 3 weeks to 3 months to live. Her doctor said, "go home, get things in order, enjoy what you have left. I'm sorry." So we went to an evangelist, had her anointed, prayed for Jesus to heal her, and then scheduled some follow-up or second-opinion tests. That doctor looked at the diagnostic images and said, "Why are you wasting my time? There is no cyst! And your pancreas looks like it is brand-new!" That was 6 years ago. Two years ago, she went in for some tests for a lower-back injury, and the radiological technician practically fainted: he asked her how she could possibly even be ALIVE! My wife has the medical records and I think even some of the before-and-after images. Other doctors have examined these and told her that the before-prayer diagnostic records are clear: terminal cancer. And the after-prayer records are equally clear: no indication that cancer ever existed. Go figure. Did you know that a very large portion of medical doctors - not just in the U.S. but actually worldwide - are Christians? (or - at least in the U.S. - variously observant Jews?) Go figure that, too.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by Randy Echo]

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Old man, thank you for the kind words, Actually I'm not an idiot

My post was not meant to be offensive. As I understand it, this is standard internet terminology for drawing the attention of a person, without resorting to profanity....Lol.


Anyway, as I said in my earlier post, the fact remains that you chose to come onto this thread and claim that those who have experiences of God are liars, although you don't go onto all the other threads which deal with alien abduction, UFOs, blossom goodchild, new age channelers, etc, and claim that their experiences are based on lies. A simple search of your posting history is enough to reveal that.

Am I to deduce from that, that you agree with other's personal spiritual/alien experiences, and view them as valid?

Am I further to deduce that you single out only Christian religious experiences for your attacks or accusations?


I have no wish nor intention of defending my own or others' religious beliefs on this thread. I am tired of doing it.

Just seems a little unfair to me that you would attack a person's experience of God, whilst leaving all the other kooky claims intact.

If I have seemed to level some personal attack at you, I apologize. Believe me, your response is mild compared to a great many on this, and other forums.

It just seems strange to me, considering your posting history of survival/weapons issues, and all that, that you would seek to single out a Christian thread for your disapproval, considering the great many threads on ATS of all places relating to all manner of outlandish theories, personal experiences, and the like.

Anyway, I have no wish to further this disagreement. May God bless you. Whether you believe in Him or not.

Peace out

Old Man

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Old Man]

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Old Man]

One time I was walking in the mountains and I decided to go sit on the edge of a cliff.

I could've fallen down into some chasm / abyss or whatever you want to call it and could have died.
But I didn't.

God exists. (Or does he?)

As a kid, I once fell from the top of some stairs.

I could've broken my neck or could have had a nasty concussion, but I didn't.
God exists. (Or does he?)

If everything that happens for a first time is caused by God, did God also cause the first war? The first abortion? The first invention?

I doubt it.

There are many more factors that come into the equation, regardless of whether it happens for the first time or not.

Who decides that it is God's doing that I do or do not break my neck? Or that the first abortion happened?

EDIT: There is another thread in here where people were doing a global thought experiment to bring peace to a specific region.

First it sparked an insane amount of casualties, but after that the casualties dropped a lot.

So was this their personal intent getting worked into reality? Was it God's doing? Or a coincidence?

You decide.

[edit on 3/11/08 by -0mega-]

I believe if you are going through pain and suffering in your life, your soul must have done something bad in a previous life. God is putting those people, and the people it effects, through a lesson.

This delusion never ceases to amaze me... I've heard this response before, and I simply laugh, and am just astonished that people actually believe this B.S....

you may not allow this to validate in your viewpoints
or you have belief issues, or whatever it is
But this was one force, GOD

accept your own explanations to yourself
but Im telling you 100 percent from me to you
THIS WAS GOD

Tell me which God, and when you tell me which God, tell me how he is any different from the thousands of other God's humans have believed in. Tell me what makes you so sure that he is THE ONE? If you were born a Muslim you'd be saying the same thing about Allah. So use logic, and critical thinking to explain to us why it MUST be the christian God.

God on the other hand wants our loyalty and us as followers
he knows that dirt can be washed away

But God already KNOWS who his loyal followers are, and will be. He is omniscient, he knows absolutely everything. Do you know what omniscient means??? You need to think about this subject more thouroughly... You clearly don't even understand your God's powers lol

They say there are no athiests in foxholes during wartime,
I am taking from that in a time of need you would be the first to pray
and when things became safe again, go back to athiesism.

There ARE atheists in fox-holes... Whoever came up with this stupid saying is an idiot...

Both of these forces can not be separated. Good and Evil can not exist independently, because if one doesn't exist, the other wouldn't either. Nothing could be "good", if there is no such thing as "evil". Much like you can't have -1 unless +1 exists to begin with. Darkness would not exist if there was no such thing as light. They are the ying and yang, you can not separate them.

Well lucky for us, the concepts of good, and evil were something created by humans, and exist only in our minds... Do you think there was such a thing as good, and evil before humans??? Did a dinosaur know the difference between good, and evil??? Does any animal today know the differnece between good,a dn evil???

The process of "constructions and destruction" is proof that we were created by intelligent design.

no it isn't... All intelligent Design says is that if something is too complicated, then it must've been created by someone... it offers no evidence, it offers nothing but imagination... it's ridiculous that people believe it...

I'm sorry to say but those young dying people in Africa, and the kids dieing of cancer, and all of that is 100% necessary for the life of this Earth. As harsh and sucky as that sounds, it is the truth. I am not God and I can not tell you why these specific souls were chosen for the suffering, but their existence is totally necessary for the further evolution of Earth and everything on it

But then why are they all black??? God must be a racist... All these souls are put here for punishment, but they all happen to be black??? WHY???

Damned to what, HEll right? well to have Hell we have to have heaven of course, and that would mean God Exists!

This had nothing to do with his post...

Science and Religion CAN co-exist.

No they can't...

The authors of the Bible had no way of knowing about dinosaurs because their experiences were limited to the eastern Mediterranean region of the World.

Aren't dinosaurs a little too big a detail in earths life for God to leave it out of the bible??? Or maybe the primitive people who wrote the bible had no idea dinosaurs existed, and therefore didn't add them to the story they MADE UP??? that sounds pretty logical to me...

nice thread, i''ll be drinking to all the believers tonight! who knows maybe i'll even start talking to jesus.

Old man, no offense taken, and I did not call people who believe in God liars. If an individual chooses to believe in such stories then thats their choice but the problem with all religions is that we dont have a choice because we are normally brainwashed with it from a very early age where choice plays no part.

Also religion has been used and still is to exploit a persons weaknesses why. If we are all powerful sentient beings why do we even need religion at all. And if we want to worship anything then worship mother nature and this planet we are on because it is that which is most important to us and perhaps we would have alot more respect for our "Home" rather than treating it like a toilet.

Originally posted by Randy Echo

Originally posted by thehype16

Originally posted by Randy Echo


[edit on 2-11-2008 by Randy Echo]

The Bible says the most of the world is damned so how is a majority of the world believers, if your bible is true? Unless you did a world-wide census

Damned to what, HEll right? well to have Hell we have to have heaven of course, and that would mean God Exists!

No I was just testing your statement but i believe there isn't a hell or heaven.

Originally posted by Old Man

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Old man, thank you for the kind words, Actually I'm not an idiot

My post was not meant to be offensive. As I understand it, this is standard internet terminology for drawing the attention of a person, without resorting to profanity....Lol.


Anyway, as I said in my earlier post, the fact remains that you chose to come onto this thread and claim that those who have experiences of God are liars, although you don't go onto all the other threads which deal with alien abduction, UFOs, blossom goodchild, new age channelers, etc, and claim that their experiences are based on lies. A simple search of your posting history is enough to reveal that.

Am I to deduce from that, that you agree with other's personal spiritual/alien experiences, and view them as valid?

Am I further to deduce that you single out only Christian religious experiences for your attacks or accusations?


I have no wish nor intention of defending my own or others' religious beliefs on this thread. I am tired of doing it.

Just seems a little unfair to me that you would attack a person's experience of God, whilst leaving all the other kooky claims intact.

If I have seemed to level some personal attack at you, I apologize. Believe me, your response is mild compared to a great many on this, and other forums.

It just seems strange to me, considering your posting history of survival/weapons issues, and all that, that you would seek to single out a Christian thread for your disapproval, considering the great many threads on ATS of all places relating to all manner of outlandish theories, personal experiences, and the like.

Anyway, I have no wish to further this disagreement. May God bless you. Whether you believe in Him or not.

Peace out

Old Man

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Old Man]

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Old Man]

I could see why he could believe in the ufos and stuff because, there is much more physical evidence on those subjects than the existence of God, except for that weird alien and channeler stuff, lol.

There are many reasons why Christianity or God would be hard to believe in. It was started and distributed by the largest people in power and most violent and it appears in history as nothing more than a tool. If, you look back in history especially during the Renaissance, the people complained of the people in church heiracrchy not even taking the religion seriously, like a joke.(behavioral wise, and judging their actions)

I was raised to believe in God and went to Christian school til 9th gtrade where we had chapel every wednesday and had bible classes as a main subject. I could bring up many more reasons why to doubt, I am simply challenging your sense of faith, will it blind you from using logic when looking into subject such as these or completely help you to ignore the points placed in front of you in these posts.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

I'm sorry to say but those young dying people in Africa, and the kids dieing of cancer, and all of that is 100% necessary for the life of this Earth. As harsh and sucky as that sounds, it is the truth. I am not God and I can not tell you why these specific souls were chosen for the suffering, but their existence is totally necessary for the further evolution of Earth and everything on it.

Not only are the souls learning a lesson, but everyone like you and me are learning a lesson from them as well.

You have to understand, only humans are afraid of Death, because we know nothing about it. Every seed must die before it grows.

I know we are supposed to remain civil, but comments like these bring out the 'darkness' in me, and make me want to say a few nasty words.

Is it me or does this God love to inflict pain? The comments in bold are simply [insert expletive of your choice here] up. Do you even realize how little sense they make?

It's perfectly acceptable to you then that a kid comes in this world, lives for a year and then dies of hunger, because s/he was here to learn and teach a lesson. But what could s/he possibly have learned from that?

Oops, my bad, it's the soul that's meant to learn a lesson. All is fine, then. No need to worry. It's vessel is not important.

Wait a second. What is a soul? How do we know it even exists? Kinda funny that people know so much about the afterlife when (by your admission) death is still a mystery.

In my opinion, people who say everything happens for a reason couldn't be any more wrong if they tried. S**t doesn't need a reason, it just happens.

reply to post by Randy Echo


hmmmmm.........

Originally posted by thehype16



I could see why he could believe in the ufos and stuff because, there is much more physical evidence on those subjects than the existence of God, except for that weird alien and channeler stuff, lol.

But there isn't.....unless you classify a few grainy Youtube videos as evidence.

Or the testimony of some alien abductees.......in which case, why is the testimony of Christians who have experienced God in their lives not also valid?

And before you reply that many high level, respectable people have had UFO experiences....well....the same goes for Christian experiences as well.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Old Man]

Old man, if you accept the possibility that the God creation could be a hoax why should people believe. At the end of the day its a story written hundreds of years after the death of this alleged person, no proofs no witnmesses just someones stories just like Plato's Atlantis yet most people don't believe that do they.

No the reason why we have religion is because those who had knowledge had power. Power to control the masses and its worked fairly well for a long time but bnot any more. People are waking up to the lies and deceit that has been spun over the centuries. Religion= corruption, power greed murder and persecution. Religion is the curse of humanity, one of the major rerasons we fight wars is because of reluigion and we can see this on a daily basis.

But it is designed to be that way, divide and conquer, control, manipulate, subjugate the list is endless. If religion dissapeared tomorrow none would be any worse off for it. If people who spend all their time worshiping false Gods spent it looking after their home then the World would be a much better place than it is.

Originally posted by Old Man

Originally posted by thehype16



I could see why he could believe in the ufos and stuff because, there is much more physical evidence on those subjects than the existence of God, except for that weird alien and channeler stuff, lol.

But there isn't.....unless you classify a few grainy Youtube videos as evidence.

Or the testimony of some alien abductees.......in which case, why is the testimony of Christians who have experienced God in their lives not also valid?

And before you reply that many high level, respectable people have had UFO experiences....well....the same goes for Christian experiences as well.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Old Man]

Because, you can't pass proof of God's existence if you have to see it all by your lonesome. How can you pass the feeling of God on to someone else.

Some UFO videos are really amazing and not just grainy pieces of trashy footage. I've seen several ufos in my lifetime, even close enough to see it wobble. That is part of the reason why I am so interested in it.

A high level, respectable person's claims are no better than any other average person.

Can you show physical evidence of a proof of God? Don't say stuff like just look at how complex everything is or sea shells found on the mainland proves the flood. Cause if I were a smart man writing a manipulative book, I could easily attribute some great catclysm to the hand of a god.

It is funny how people tend to externalize the idea of God being a physical entity of such WWE "awesomeness" physical strength and presence, also at the same time is a Santa Claus ready to grant every wish.
However my own personal understanding is that God or All That Is or what the heck you want to call it is simply that is within one's own potential of positive energy of mindful intent.
In the same way the devil is simply the ego within us all that we all choose to willingly or not willingly listen to as the facts on everything we perceive.
And so Heaven or Hell are simply the beliefs that we project on to the outside world and then perceive with our 5 sense in each moment of time and space.

reply to post by thehype16


Well, now.....you say you've seen UFOs.

Can you prove it? No.


But you believe in UFOs because that was your experience.


I have had experiences of God in my lifetime. Can I prove it? No.

But I know what I experienced, just like you say you know of yours.

Therefore you can't invalidate my experiences by not believing me.

Old man, did you have that experience because you were conditioned to think like that, that God exists so therefore if you have an experience it is because of God. What if you had no religion dose that prevent a person from experiencing what they would interpet as a mircale or some other such event.

I would think that people who have no relgion or religeous dogma to follow would still experience the same evnt as a religeuos person. And how dose one connect a normal or pehaps an extra normal event with religion. Again it come down to the religeous brainwashing we go through. QWe are told to expect things and when we do we assume divine intervention when there is in reality no connection.

And as far as ET's or UFO's many people have physically experienced these events and as they are ramdon events one cannot be conditioned to them as with religion. Ask yourself this, why is it when a person in most aware and vunerable that they are bombarded with religion, meaning why are young children brainwashed with religion from a very early age.

If people were taught religion at the age of an adult do you think it would have the same impact or followers probally not. Therefore one can safely assume that the reason behind brainwashing children from the age of 4 about religion is to condition them with a purpose in mind.

reply to post by Randy Echo


Brother, just be glad God has revealed his existence to you so clearly.

Unfortunately, some people have not been lucky enough YET to clearly see proof of his Existence.

EVERYONE eventually will though.

After viewing the entire thread, I have to give some input, (and take a leak).
In my opinion and studies, I conclude that God allows the bad as well as the good because of free will.
Why doesn't God intervene when a child is starving to death?
Or, when a little girl has been raped, then stoned to death?
Or, when G.W. Bush got all choked up and cried like a little baby because Jeb lost Florida?
Or, When someone is over-endowed?
To save a cancer victim?
To erradicate disease, greed, and every evil trait and deed of Human Nature?

Because, it is a choice. That's why.
Why did the child starve? Because his parents knowingly and in freedom of choice were willing to perform intercourse, thus through this act, conceived a child into the barren fruitless soils that they had to have known would be no easy road to hoe, if they were unable to feed their living procreated mini-me.
See how this works? Free Choice. Same with the other bad news and victims/perps of crimes.
How could God let a child be raped? Because by free will, obviously there was a pervert with intent and no guardian/parent/guard with the cahones to have the free will to protect the child.
The Custodian would have known the defiled victim would be killed per the societies beliefs, rules, laws, whatever.
Therefore, the resulting crimes occured due to custodians, perps, victims, or legalities that were allowed to take place.
I believe these types of free will modus operandi will be allowed but ultimately judged and held accountable when they come before God and Chortles of Angels.

As far as proof goes, many may interpret the Trinity as three individuals, one individual with three traits, two individuals and a ghost/spirit, or a piramid, triangle or other plausible tangent(s), including Creator, Alien, Matter, Energy, Part of collective conciousness, Designer, as well as myth, fantasy, hoax, covert operation, manipulation, and other items, words, descriptions, visions, beliefs, or even controlling class' God Complex in full deployment.

What proof is there? The fact that any one of the afore-mentioned or other possible truths, should there be a God, is an idea, thought, material item, or other percieved sensation of reality.

If it is real to one man, then it exists. If it exists, then God is real.

Challenging this logic is completely and utterly illogical.

Moreover, should God exist in ones reality, yet some say it is unreal, then which of the two is right and which is wrong?

According to the Scripture, (written by man is not a concession, but a fact. Written on behalf of God? A debatable stalemate.), that;
When two or more are gathered in his name, He is there with you.
Does it say gathered as believers? I say Gathered in any capacity, including a debate over God's existance.

Using this to define proof of existance, the atheist has unwittingly created the reality of God's existance in part by actively participating in a gathering of two or more in God's name.
This alone would create the Creator and conjure into existance God in proven form.

It is also said that God moves in mysterious ways.

Here's a reality check of the odds against my own existance.

My Grandfather, an immigrant from Italy in the early 1900's, Settled in America with his wife. As WWI began, he decided to return to Italy and enlist in the Italian army.
At one point, he and three others took refuge in a mountain cave. The cave was shelled, the concussion killing all but him, leaving him permanently deaf.

After the war, he returned to the States and my father was born.

In WWII, My father, a Seargent in the Army, trained paratroopers. He told me that nary a day went by that he and his company were not jumping. A few days before his platoon was deployed to Europe, during a jump, he landed fast and hard, breaking his leg. He lived with regret until his death this last Spring, for, not one of his men survived to return home.

After the war, he married, and here I am.

As a youth, riding a bicycle that a friends father had converted from a two speed kickback to a one speed with a kickback brake, I was downhill, full speed, and the brake failed. I must've been doing 30+MPH, with my legs spinning the pedals backward trying to engage a brake that failed. As I approached the arterial "T" at the end of the hill, Looking to the left as I passed the corner house, I see an ambulance, lights and sirens blaring, coming so fast that I had no time to think of anything except that we were on a course that would put me in front of it's grille just in time to be platted like a bug, when something that wasn't there pulled mebackward and to the right by the shirt behind my right shoulder. With the death grip I had on the handle bars, the bike stayed with me and I, clinging to the bike listed starboard and slammed hard onto the gravel shoulder and stopped, just as the ambulance wizzed past, locked wheels screeching the now smoking tires down the cement past my head which was a foot from the arterial road, the ambulance and certain death.

My mother witnessed this and I'll never forget her scream when she saw I was about to die and nothing could change it.

When I got up to my feet, I had not even a scratch or a bruise. I never felt a bit of pain when I hit the ground at 30+MPH stopping dead as if my momentum was nill.

That was my first close call. Since, I was shot at twice, was T-Boned drivers side by a drunk running a red. The drunk and my passenger were taken by ambulance, My door almost touching the steering wheel, I never had a scratch.

I headplanted a rockery after a failed bike jump from 5 feet dive, I lost a few drops of blood, and that's it.

I flipped a electric warehouse cart at 25MPH during a reverse powerslide. The cart flipped, trapped me with no help anywhere. throb - got enough pressure off to remove my trapped foot, which took all the skin off the top of my foot and left a puncture about 5/8th an inch deep, 1-1/2 inches round in my foot.
Xrays concluded I did not break one bone.
On a ski run I hadn't been on before, I took a jump I spotted on the right of slope and once airborn, noticed on the other side, the down slope was 50 degrees to my left. When I hit I landed all my weight on my wallet in left inside breast pocket.
My rib cage is still wacked. It was 19 months before pain free.
Xrays showed no bone broken. more close calls,
but txt out. I am here of God

Originally posted by Old Man
reply to post by thehype16

 

Well, now.....you say you've seen UFOs.

Can you prove it? No.


But you believe in UFOs because that was your experience.


I have had experiences of God in my lifetime. Can I prove it? No.

But I know what I experienced, just like you say you know of yours.

Therefore you can't invalidate my experiences by not believing me.

I was waiting for you to say that, the difference is that there is evidence you can see to back up ufos existence