The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by stander

 

If you don't want to play with historical concepts, don't bring one into the view.

The state doesn't own your property -- it just taxes your property. It's the bank that owns you property -- have you ever heard the word "mortgage." Huh? And who runs the bank? Huh?

You got that world of yourts mixed up real bad.

Refuse to pay the taxes and you'll see who owns "your property". State is a state, no matter what clothes the emperor wears.

You have to petition the Congress to abolish the taxes for your excuse to toss around that crappy argument that state owns your property. Show me one country that looks the other way when taxpayers owe and don't pay.

I know that you would like to use all public property without paying for it, but you need to relocate to Anarchy, Andromeda Galaxy to live happily ever after.

The speculators who brought about the economic hardship seem to launch another counter-measures to divert the attention from them to the government. Bankers own you car and your house, but it's actually the government who owns them -- if you don't pay taxes.
Alright, I heard enough . . .

reply to post by stander

Bankers own you car and your house, but it's actually the government who owns them -- if you don't pay taxes. Alright, I heard enough . . .

Don't know about cars, but as far as houses go.. the Banks pay the taxes, as they hold the Deed. You pay into an Escrow to which the bank takes the funds to pay the taxes.

If you don't pay those taxes, the bank still pays them.. which is why you get the two fold # storm with the State and the Bank pissed off at you.

I have no problem paying local taxes, school taxes, state income taxes, sales taxes, etc.. no problem what so ever.

I do have a problem paying taxes to the Federal Government, where the funds are lost, abused, spent on black projects, bureaucratic health and welfare programs and wars of aggression.

Call me crazy, but I like knowing my money is staying in my community, or my state, and is helping out my neighbors, not Octomom in California or assaulting defenseless nations overseas..

reply to post by stander

I know that you would like to use all public property without paying for it, but you need to relocate to Anarchy, Andromeda Galaxy to live happily ever after.

The speculators who brought about the economic hardship seem to launch another counter-measures to divert the attention from them to the government. Bankers own you car and your house, but it's actually the government who owns them -- if you don't pay taxes.
Alright, I heard enough . . .

Those speculators own the government, and government officials are their slaves. Do you really need proofs? Elections are not result of manipulation? Training of citizens makes them wise and responsible? They stand for their rights?

The whole thing is going in one direction only: enslavement, enforcement, murder of all those who resist, labeling them "anarchists" or "terrorists", until there is no difference between those terms. Lets not get lost in translation, please.

Just look at recent events in Peru. It is repeating the history of all times, the last 5.000 years. Nothing new about this "new worlds order". Some companies and corporations want to exploit the resources of Amazon, and it will be done over dead bodies.

Taxes are means to confirm that the government owns you. For every action of yours there must be confirmation, allowance, from the government. That's what government does. If you trade, you have to pay to the government. If you present someone, it has to be taxed. If you own something, it is taxed. Everything in society is mediated by the government.

So what is that? And why? Ownership is clearly about government owning you. That is the point and it cannot be denied.

The situation now has reached the absurd state - that's why there is crisis.
Bankers own everything and it has become clear that money is really nothing else but debt. And the bad thing is that it has become "obvious", so the great mystery is bust.

People, taught that they were "free", suddenly realize that they are owned.

Revolution time, Stander, until another "paradigm" of mysterious social concept of "equality, brotherhood, freedom" takes root in those oblivious minds.

I wonder who's gonna buy it this time.

The monthly report from Leap2020... only available in french for now... her e in french

Basically, the US and the UK are toasted by the end of october. They won't be able to pay... meaning default... but as another article pointed out... they may be able to slow the collapse by buying US bonds with US banks money... meaning taxpayers money.

Here how it works...

Banks in trouble = need bailouts (now at about 14 trillion$) = dollar collapsing, big deficit, unable to fund it = buy US bonds with bailout money = taxpayers money buying US bonds.

It's only a trick... but it may work for a few weeks... but it will end up with the same result... defauting. IMO the only to stop that and to avoid complete collapse of the US into a third world nation is to audit the FED, put the criminals in jail and RIGHT NOW put a HONEST PRESIDENT in office... so unless there's a real revolution, the US will collapse within a year maximum.

Continuing with the LEAP report...

The US will be hit by 3 main waves, and 10 others of less importance... they will hit almost all at once. Inflation will be back up... hyperinflation... if the FED doesn't rise rates, the economy is screwed, and if they do, the economy is screwed.

Banks and government will see how they are bankrupt by the end of summer... putting us even worse than last year... (Keynes was full of it as Autrian economists know) The stock market will crash again before october. Millions of people will lose everything they've got and won't be able to find a job for a few years... Can you imagine having no job for 4 years?

Anyway, it's not pretty, as all of us here except a few saw, and it's starting this summer. Within 4 months, we gonna see a lot of it.

After all, the report from the state department that stated that they sent billions of $$ to foreign embassies so they could buy local currency to last at least for a year might be true... and the report stated that they had until the end of the year to buy the currencies.

Maybe, like RAND suggested a few months earlier, a world war could pull us out of it... but in this day and age... a world war will be nuclear. RAND corporation suggested China or Russia. North Korea and Iran were too small according to them... maybe if they start a war with North Korea, Iran and Syria at the same time?

[edit on 16-6-2009 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
The monthly report from Leap2020... only available in french for now... her e in french

Basically, the US and the UK are toasted by the end of october. They won't be able to pay... meaning default... but as another article pointed out... they may be able to slow the collapse by buying US bonds with US banks money... meaning taxpayers money.

Here how it works...

Banks in trouble = need bailouts (now at about 14 trillion$) = dollar collapsing, big deficit, unable to fund it = buy US bonds with bailout money = taxpayers money buying US bonds.

It's only a trick... but it may work for a few weeks... but it will end up with the same result... defauting. IMO the only to stop that and to avoid complete collapse of the US into a third world nation is to audit the FED, put the criminals in jail and RIGHT NOW put a HONEST PRESIDENT in office... so unless there's a real revolution, the US will collapse within a year maximum.

Continuing with the LEAP report...

The US will be hit by 3 main waves, and 10 others of less importance... they will hit almost all at once. Inflation will be back up... hyperinflation... if the FED doesn't rise rates, the economy is screwed, and if they do, the economy is screwed.

Banks and government will see how they are bankrupt by the end of summer... putting us even worse than last year... (Keynes was full of it as Autrian economists know) The stock market will crash again before october. Millions of people will lose everything they've got and won't be able to find a job for a few years... Can you imagine having no job for 4 years?

Anyway, it's not pretty, as all of us here except a few saw, and it's starting this summer. Within 4 months, we gonna see a lot of it.

After all, the report from the state department that stated that they sent billions of $$ to foreign embassies so they could buy local currency to last at least for a year might be true... and the report stated that they had until the end of the year to buy the currencies.

Maybe, like RAND suggested a few months earlier, a world war could pull us out of it... but in this day and age... a world war will be nuclear. RAND corporation suggested China or Russia. North Korea and Iran were too small according to them... maybe if they start a war with North Korea, Iran and Syria at the same time?

[edit on 16-6-2009 by Vitchilo]

100% correct sir!
War will be the last ditch option for TPTB, and they will have to use it...but that move will also destroy them....calling Dr. Strangelove...Dr Strangelove?

reply to post by Vitchilo


Yes, I believe I am of the same mentality in regards to your post. The Banks could very well use the funds they where handed to purchase Treasuries.. but I am unsure if they really will. Technically speaking, they owe 10% dividends on the Senior Preferred Shares we purchased for them in exchange for those funds, and taking all that money they owe 10% on and investing in our worthless Treasuries.. they would be loosing money. It would be a horrible investment.

We all know our bailout funds are being pumped into Hedge Funds opperated by the banks (and thus the Stock Market), perhaps their profits can be used to prop up the very same entity that bailed them out.

In the end, regardless, the US and much of Europe appear to be heading for a collapse.. the debt is unsustainable, revenue is down, and jobs are not recovering at all. 5% of the wealthiest businesses, individuals could by all technical means take us out of a recession, but with out jobs, wage growth and economic sense of stability we will still ultimately collapse.

At this point in time I am quite certain a major military conflict is the easiest and quickest way out of our.. situation. Raises production, kills off some of the population, and allows for War Time measures to be taken by the Executive Branch to ensure an iron grip over the nation. Perhaps you guys are right though, it will be nuclear.. but rebuilding those cities would sure require a lot of people to work in construction, no?

European Factors -- Shares set to fall for 4th day
www.reuters.com...

LONDON, June 17 (Reuters) - European shares were set for a weaker open on
Wednesday, extending a losing run to four days, after an overnight fall in the
United States where data gave mixed signals on the prospects for economic
recovery.

Financial spreadbetters expected Britain's FTSE 100 .FTSE to open up to 28
points lower, or as much as 0.6 percent, Germany's DAX .GDAXI to open as much
as 23 points lower, or as much as 0.5 percent and France's CAC .FCHI to open
up to 47 points lower, or as much as 1.4 percent.
On Tuesday, The FTSEurofirst 300 .FTEU3 index of top European shares fell
0.1 percent to close at 862.41 points.
The European benchmark index is up 33.6 percent from the lifetime low it hit
on March 9. However, some analysts comment that the prospects for recovery are
not enough to justify the rally.

Economic data due includes UK unemployment figures, and minutes of this
month's meeting of the Bank of England.

U.S. stocks slipped on Tuesday as mixed economic data and Best Buy's (BBY.N)
disappointing sales spurred worries about a weak recovery.

At this point in time I am quite certain a major military conflict is the easiest and quickest way out of our.. situation.

Yep. Anyway, even if half the world population would die, the power that be would love it, it's their goal after all. They've got their underground bases anyway so Dr.strangelove could indeed happen.

Russia would be attacked by NATO, China take over Taiwan and maybe the whole of Korea, the US fighting at home, in North Korea, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Iran, in Syria... Israel against Lebanon, Iran, Syria... maybe even Egypt...

We'll see... but prepared for war they sure are.

reply to post by Rockpuck

In the end, regardless, the US and much of Europe appear to be heading for a collapse.. the debt is unsustainable, revenue is down, and jobs are not recovering at all. 5% of the wealthiest businesses, individuals could by all technical means take us out of a recession, but with out jobs, wage growth and economic sense of stability we will still ultimately collapse.

The fractal nature of debt

You describe it very well, sir!
Old nations would eradicate all this mess every now and then and start from scratch.

But people are evolving stupider and stupider.
Instead, they invented "revolution" to do the same, only many people die in the process of "eradication" of debt.

It's a joke, how simple it is. Yet, nobody wants simplicity (I guess, it directly affects their sense of self importance).

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

In the end, regardless, the US and much of Europe appear to be heading for a collapse.. the debt is unsustainable, revenue is down, and jobs are not recovering at all. 5% of the wealthiest businesses, individuals could by all technical means take us out of a recession, but with out jobs, wage growth and economic sense of stability we will still ultimately collapse.

The fractal nature of debt

You describe it very well, sir!
Old nations would eradicate all this mess every now and then and start from scratch.

But people are evolving stupider and stupider.
Instead, they invented "revolution" to do the same, only many people die in the process of "eradication" of debt.

It's a joke, how simple it is. Yet, nobody wants simplicity (I guess, it directly affects their sense of self importance).

the debt jubilee

www.michael-hudson.com...

ATX 2,041.88 10:22AM ET Down 63.19 (3.00%)
AEX General 248.96 10:37AM ET Down 8.05 (3.13%)
OSE All Share 337.14 10:22AM ET Down 14.58 (4.14%)
Madrid General 957.79 10:35AM ET Down 26.76 (2.72%)

I wonder what their problem is?

China is at it again, using protectionism to keep their economic stimulus within their borders.

Beijing Orders 'Buy China' for Stimulus Projects

www.cnbc.com...

Then they are now selling their US bonds in protest.

China sells US bonds to 'show concern'

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Incredible.

200 period EMA (fixed)


So we have been under the 200 period EMA for far too long now.

Time to make the run back up

EDIT: sorry that was not updated..


FIXING chart

[edit on 17-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

Is there any truth to the thought that the federal government can't actually default because they can just print the money?

So what really happens is we end up in a hyperinflation situation? I remember reading that somewhere, is there any truth to it?

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Well we have never defaulted on a payment, and yes, I think the FED gives us the power to do as we please.

Technically, I believe we have been "bankrupt" for a really long time lol

And I do not believe personally we will ever see bread at 1,000 a loaf here or anything if that is the hyperinflation scenario you are referring to, although many on here will prob. disagree with me.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


If we default on a payment, it's instant devaluation of the dollar. Period.

As we are going, we are still looking at a deflationary spiral, which will cause High inflation (your dollar is not worth as much, so prices go up)

But hyperinflation is something completely different, that is when the country has no choice but to continue to print in higher and higher denominations because the currency debasement is exponential. Hyperinflation, at least in the past (and current for Zimbabwe) is always seen with physical notes, not 1's & 0's on a computer.

So far there has been no major increase in the amount of printed FRNs and even though billions have been produced in 1's and 0's, so much wealth literally disappeared last year (esp in September) that the funds the FED has supplied has not even made a "return to even" on the wealth lost.

So hyper-inflation is not in the immediate future, but regular, high price inflation probably is, regardless of a payment default or not.

Deflation is not a fun thing, but with all that "imaginary" wealth (read credit) from the ATM in the kitchen, it is a necessary correction.

Will the FED do it right and be able to correct things at a proper point? No one knows for sure & that is the biggest risk (read fear) factor in this whole mess.

reply to post by redhatty


Many are expecting inflation within next six months, just price inflation like you say, that if the fed starts to raise interest again.

That is when things will get worst for those that are now unemployed or on unemployment benefits.

reply to post by redhatty


Okay I got it.

Since it's fiat money, the confidence lost from a defaulted payment means inflation because the currency is worth less, due to a loss in confidence.

Okay another question, what exactly constitutes "high" inflation? 100%, 50%, 25%?

Few Things I am looking at



I have highlighted a few things to think about, as well as a caption for each.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


I think we average about 3% or so per year if I am not mistaken..

I would also venture to say (since I think we are in a deflationary time period, like redhatty) these past few months have prob been averaging NEGATIVE inflation... but I dont know how you would figure that out