American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
First, I need a gun to hunt, which feeds my growing family with meat that would otherwise cost an additional $750 a year in grocery bills. I am compensating for something alright; for not owning my own herd of cattle!

deer. over abundant and quite tasty to boot.
I like to think that every time a deer hears a gunshot its like, 'man, i need to bang a buck.' but they are usually too busy multiplying to think, like some of the unrational ATS users.

thank you for being a good patriot.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

Well they do serve a purpose. One for hunting and two defending yourself if the government ever turns against the people. I am pretty sure the second one is why they originally put it in the constitution in the first place.

Maybe you need some anxiety medicine, because an awful lot of normal stuff scares you.

[edit on 10-10-2008 by justsomeboreddude]

My .02

Just as soon as all the governments and criminal elements on this planet completely disarm, I will most joyfully join them.

Until then, The firearms that a Citizen (of any Nation) owns are, imo, needed insurance against those who would seek to deny one's Creator bestowed right to life and liberty.

I would love to trust my government, But I do not.

I've had my insurance for over 25 years and never have my firearms threatened or intimidated anyone, not once were they brandished, let alone fired in the presence of anyone, outside of a designated shooting range, or area.

Imo, It simply comes down to this, one can trust others to guarantee one's right to act freely (without infringement on others, of course), or one can keep an Ace (even Straight Aces) in the hole just in case the Government abuses its power (never done that, have they?)

Love, Freedom, Peace.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by Simplynoone

I also believe someone else made an excellent point ..What happened to all the gun toteing Americans during the LA RIOTS ? I would like to hear that answer myself ..

Actually, the LA RIOTS didn't spread because of local gun owners, who helped their neighbors use their vehicles to barricade streets. I remember seeing footage of pickups full of would-be rioters pulling up to a cul-de-sac, at which point the inhabitants held up deer rifles. The pickup quickly drove off.

I think some of the gun owners were even charged with deadly conduct, for recklessly displaying their shootin' irons.

There was also a Korean store owner, who kept rioters from stealing his stuff by climbing up on his roof and offering to pick off anyone who entered his store.


The sad fact is, criminals have no respect for any threat that doesn't involve grave bodily injury. Having worked in law enforcement, I can assure you that real criminals have absolutely no fear of prison. And in most venues, breaking and entering is not even a felony---meaning they won't even lose their right to own a gun !!!!!.

Nobody said that they spread because of gun owners. Are you people so dead set on defending a point that you must do it even when it is not what is being argued?

PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME

It was stated that the muslim riots in France only happend because those people had no guns.

GOT THAT PART SO FAR?

I was countering that the L.A. riots were even worse and we have guns here

FOLLOWING?

So there is no relationship between being an armed country and an unarmed country and it's ability to prevent riots.

THAT IS THE ONLY POINT I WAS MAKING.

They had riots, we had riots. Guns had nothing to do with. Patriotism should not be so hung up on guns. People who are too myopic to transcend that argument need to learn to read or keep quiet.

reply to post by TheRandom1


No, no, I don't know that. Really, I don't.

Levity aside, I'll ask this.
Is there more to American patriotism, than just the right to bear arms? What is it? Is it promulgated from the individual up, or is it socialised by those in control, or neither? Can a gun non owner still be a patriot? Does American patriotism bring people together, or create more divisions?

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME

It was stated that the muslim riots in France only happend because those people had no guns.

GOT THAT PART SO FAR?

I was countering that the L.A. riots were even worse and we have guns here

FOLLOWING?

So there is no relationship between being an armed country and an unarmed country and it's ability to prevent riots.

do you not see the correlation provided by your own comment?

"LA was WORSE because they had guns."

I know nothing about the french "riots" but i know a thing or two about LA, and it was a class/race issue that never leaked to the mid/upper class, who probably would have created a larger outlash had it reached their doorsteps.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
Where is there a civilized society, if it were civilized we wouldnt need police, or the army.

Why didnt anyone come out shooting in New Orleans when they came for their guns ?
Everyone keeps saying if they come to take your guns you will shoot ..they didnt did they ?

I asked a dear friend of mine once ..will you really shoot the very men you claim are fighting for our country ..the ones you say have every right to kill the enemy ..and then turn and shoot them when they come for your guns ?And dont yall know that you will be OUTNUMBERED and will then be shot on the spot (Your family will be too) ...just so you can keep your gun ..how is that going to make you feel then >? Because you wanted to hold onto that posession you lost your whole family and your own life maybe or you may live and just go directly to jail) .And then have to live with the fact that your family was killed just so you could keep your gun ..



About hunting ...I have nothing against hunting and killing for food ...We had no choice but to do that in Alaska when we lived off the land completely in my childhood .....(I do have a problem though if your just doing it for the antlers )

[edit on 11-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by fingapointa
reply to post by TheRandom1

 

I'll ask this.
Is there more to American patriotism, than just the right to bear arms? What is it? Is it promulgated from the individual up, or is it socialised by those in control, or neither? Can a gun non owner still be a patriot? Does American patriotism bring people together, or create more divisions?

joining any group will divide you from those that oppose it, i have told a few people that i like to post on ATS and they look at me like i told them pol pot is my friend.

it is free speech, the pursuit of happiness, and the ability to be an individual that we, as americans, cling so dearly to.

I see a thread about American patriotism has about 7 pages of debating the validity of guns.

But I guess there's already too many guns to outlaw them - therefore, I can see the need to have one if every other Tom, Dick and Harry has one as well.

I still think the US constitution didn't mean to have such an emphasis on gun ownership, but it's been taken in such a way that it has gained that 'God given' status.

It's seriously an enigma to me, so I'm not going to question it

"I need this thing because of the danger that my fellow man is going to kill me, or my government is going to kill me."

That wouldn't inspire a lot of confidence for me, but I suppose a gun fills that void of confidence.

If you don't like guns simple move to Canada.

Originally posted by drsmooth23

do you not see the correlation provided by your own comment?

"LA was WORSE because they had guns."

I know nothing about the french "riots" but i know a thing or two about LA, and it was a class/race issue that never leaked to the mid/upper class, who probably would have created a larger outlash had it reached their doorsteps.

I am honestly not even sure what point you are trying to make now but it is in no way related to the point I was making. If you are just looking to argue, argue elsewhere.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Youre right guns have no place in a civilise society. We are by far not a civilised society though. Civilised societies do not attack other societies upon a lie, killing millions and in righteous indignation refuse to wash even a drop of the blood off even after the lie is revealed. Civilised societies do not imprison hugely disproportionate segments of thier socieies. Civilised Societies are not the wealthiest among all others yet enforce an "education" system upon its own that is lower than most others half as wealthy, this practice only turns out good worker drones that do not question but are just bright enough to operate factory machines, or cash registers. In this "civilised" society it is prudent to arm ones self and to say it isnt is only your manifestation of a utopian idea you "wish" were true.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

this statement is idiotic

I am in 100% agreement with the original poster. Most Americans from what I have seen, have allowed our government to walk all over them. Things like the Freedom Act would have never passed without a fight from the public many years ago. What has happened to our country? Our nation has become a bunch of ignorant followers, and they don't even question what our government does. That's what really worries me. I mean they have slowly been widdling away our freedoms, and most of America has thier head in the sand, and no one stands up for our rights anymore. Iraq was an unjust war. Many of our soldiers have lost thier lives over this war. Where are the protesters at? Why is no one doing anything to try and stop this? Look at all of the protesters we had during the Vietnam war, you would think it would be the same for the Iraq war. All I have to say is that our founding fathers would be sick at what our country has become. This is not what they had envisioned at all when this country was formed. This is blasphemy to our founding fathers, and to all of our soldiers from many years past who fought for our freedoms.

I do not however agree with the original poster on his views of guns. It is our American right.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

I think this sums it quite well:

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin

First this:

Originally posted by statickitt3n
Our nation has become a bunch of ignorant followers

Then this:

Many of our soldiers have lost thier lives over this war. Where are the protesters at? Why is no one doing anything to try and stop this? Look at all of the protesters we had during the Vietnam war, you would think it would be the same for the Iraq war.

Seriously. Do you have any idea what you're bloviating about, or are you just an ignorant (liberal) follower?

1. The modern army is a VOLUNTEER army. The kids all signed a contract promising them money for college if they would serve in the military. And 90% of the soldiers today signed up AFTER the war started. . . .

2. We haven't lost many soldiers. Less than about 5000. we lost more than that in one day, at pearl harbor.

3. Is this an unjust war? why? Because Saddam renegged on the surrender terms he agreed to? You know what happens when you un-surrender? The people you surrender to get really pissed.

3(a) Or maybe it's unjust because we attacked another country that hadn't attacked us? But that is merely following the Clinton Doctrine---that it's OK to bomb Serbia back to the stone age, even if they didn't attack us, if they seriously suck.

3(b). Or it's ok to shoot US missles into downtown baghdad, full of civilians, like clinton did in 1998. So what's the difference with Bush's action, other than the fact that he was successful, where Clinton failed.

3(c). Maybe it was because Bush isn't a Democrat, and his party doesn't own your TV. Yes that's probably it.

end of thread. this guy wins the topic

Patriotism? What the hell is that?

Did you mean Nationalism? Now that I can relate to. I see that all the time in the States.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

? In a civilized society? How did you come to that conclusion? Murders, rapes, peoples homes and cars being broke into, drugs, single parent homes, spousal abuse, wars, bombs, starvation, disease, homelessness, uneducated, well I could go on but you get my drift right?

I am a new gun owner, I "overcompensate" for this "civilized" society that we live in.