There is hope...a solution to end suffering in our time

reply to post by LowLevelMason


Then so be it, if every human on the planet can be treated equally and have the same advantages as well as disadvantages in life then why is it a bad thing?

Why do we have to shape society in the most inefficient way? In a way where thousands of people die every day hungry and disease laden?

There has to be a better way where we can all be happy not just richest 1% of the world, and anyone who would support a system where only the richest 1% could be happy then you must be sick in the head.

Originally posted by mike dangerously
I have noticed that alot of people are freaked out by the ideas put forth in Z:A we have the bible thumpers up in arms because they can't imagine a life without releigion,dispite the fact no one involved with the Venus project ever said anything about it.others really believe we can still salvage this society,we have people who can't imagine that our current system is the reason we are in trouble but hey at least progressive capitalism will save us in the end right?

I'm glad this flim is bringing new ideas forward for disscussion.

Thank you for your observations. When change is needed, those who lack vision are doomed to live in fear.

Another fine example of those who live off fear...

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Yes and no. Any tech that can be used to make more money is advanced. Any tech that can threaten profit is suppressed, like Royal Rife's work, the Joe Cell, Schauberger's stuff, cures for diseases, etc.

As any technology can be used to make more money, all technology has advanced. Nothing has been "suppressed" because of profit because anything can be turned into profit. Your rattling off CTs without a single ounce of proof. Curing diseases? I guess that's why polo was wiped off the map and is no longer an epidemic - oh wait...

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Computers enhanced profit in many ways. I am sure you can see why, but if not, let me know and I will ennumerate a few. The internet initially was seen as harmless, and then VERY profitable (the Dotcom thing?), and now a frightening thing for its ability to spread information far and wide. Free speach and all that. (Why do you think net neutrality is being attacked overtly and covertly?)

Who cares? Enhancing profits is good. It brings technology to everyone, your benefiting from it right now.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
You really think fossil fuel is bad because of the ENVIRONMENT!?! Ah, geez. It's bad because it's been used as a revenue source, and has led to unnecessary wars and the deaths of hundreds of thousands - millions, I dare say. Go ahead and support the terrorists (Cheney, et al), but I would rather move away from them and the wars they push us into harder than the "environmental fascism" you claim is pushing you away from your fossil fuel car.

More propaganda from you. There are plenty of other ways to make more money from other things than fossil fuels. There has also never been any war over it - the CT propaganda of "war for oil" has been debunked time and again.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
And I am not understanding why this makes greed "good." It seems fully nonsequitur. What has greed got to do with this?

Greed drives innovations in energy use.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
The truth of the matter is that there IS a free energy solution. Oil companies have no incentive to "jump at it." It makes their oil worthless! I am aghast that you actually typed that! I'm guessing, based on that, that you don't fully grasp the Universe you live in.

I am astounded by your ignorance. There is no free energy solution at this point in time. If it existed, oil companies WOULD jump at it - just because it comes from a source for "free" doesn't mean they can't take control of the source and charge others for using it.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
No, those who like the status quo are suppressing free energy, lest the slaves come up to the standard of living of the Elite, thereby making the Elite not Elite any longer.

Quite wrong. Those who want to create boogey man use this to try to scare people, but there is no "Elite" out there trying to stop you from getting free energy. It doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
What does it's infancy have to do with its viability? Numerous designs have been made and built even. Where's the issue?

The issue is that its not effective or efficient yet.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
And then there's Dark Energy...which the film did not mention, but which the Elites have had access to for quite a while.

...Except you have no proof of this, and its conspiracy fantasy.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
No. No it's not.

Yes. Yes it is.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Necessity and desire drive innovation and invention. Not greed. And the reason that you can't name one technological innovation that was created without someone making a profit of it is because only those things that made a profit enough for anyone to take notice are the ones you hear about. But I'm betting there have been some that were suppressed (didn't make a profit) or had too specific an application (and didn't make a profit).

And greed is part of desire. It is what drives innovation. There is a reason why you can't name one technological innovation where someone didn't make a profit: because it doesn't exist, and it never will.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Greed is only something you find in a scarcity-driven model. If there was abundance for all, greed would not exist. But imagination, innovation and invention would flourish with time set free to think, contemplate, tinker, and so on.

Actually you'll find it everywhere, but I'm glad you brought up the "scarcity" propaganda. I hate to break it to you: scarcity is real. Its not a model, its reality. There are finite resources. Without greed innovation and invention will not flourish.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
No. No I DON'T want to believe that. I have been forced into it by stark evidence. Most people hide from that stark evidence because they, too, DON'T want to believe that. But I face the evidence.

Yes you do. It helps you explain your world. Create a shadowy group who has more than you, and hate them. Its what fuels you. Hatred. You don't have any evidence of this "elite" because they don't exist. The fact that someone has more than you does not mean there is a "elite" group of people who are hell bent on enslaving you.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
You, sir, likely have the job of trying to push our collective head back in the sand. This is book of spook rhetoric from start to finish.

Yes, thats exactly what your doing. Your following what the propaganda preaches you: Do not question the Zeitgiest. Proclaim all who disagree are disinformation agents.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by LowLevelMason

Originally posted by admriker444
The only people who will really freak out are those who stand to lose a lot of power and control.

for everyone else in a money-free society we stand to gain a lot.

Populist propaganda. You stand to lose all your technology and innovations. But you'll be happy, because you got to stick it to the rich!!

Hahahahaha! Lessee, in a world where tech rules...we stand to lose our tech. Gotcha on that one. In a world where innovators are free to spend all their time innovating (rather than schlepping to a job that wears them out and gives them little time and energy to innovate), we will lose our innovations. Gotcha there, too.

And yes, I will be happy, because I and EVERY OTHER PERSON ON THIS PLANET can follow our individual bliss. Including the (currently) "rich."

Originally posted by caballero
Then so be it, if every human on the planet can be treated equally and have the same advantages as well as disadvantages in life then why is it a bad thing?

First, you can't do that. We tried it - it was called communism. It failed.

Second, innovative people who do not live off fear and blaming other people for their problems don't want it. Why should people be punished for being successful, and be rewarded for living off the state?

Originally posted by caballero
Why do we have to shape society in the most inefficient way? In a way where thousands of people die every day hungry and disease laden?

Because no system is perfect. Someone will always suffer.

Originally posted by caballero
There has to be a better way where we can all be happy not just richest 1% of the world, and anyone who would support a system where only the richest 1% could be happy then you must be sick in the head.

There could be a better way, but I haven't seen it yet. It certainly isn't in the Z:A propaganda. Also, if you believe that only the richest 1% can be happy then you've completely fallen for Z:A propaganda. I went to a monastery the other week - filled with monks and nuns who make $0 a year and make what they need. They were some of the happiest people I've seen. You don't have to have money to make you happy, and hating those with more money than you is the basis of the fearing mongering that is Zeitgiest.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Hahahahaha! Lessee, in a world where tech rules...we stand to lose our tech. Gotcha on that one. In a world where innovators are free to spend all their time innovating (rather than schlepping to a job that wears them out and gives them little time and energy to innovate), we will lose our innovations. Gotcha there, too.

Wrong yet again. In a world where no one has to be innovative and no one does anything - there will be no technology. In a world where no one has an incentive (rather than being fueled by the desire to be successful), no one will do anything. You lose, again.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
And yes, I will be happy, because I and EVERY OTHER PERSON ON THIS PLANET can follow our individual bliss. Including the (currently) "rich."

No you wont, you just think it will be better because your entire world view is based on hatred of those with more than you currently.

the dirty little secret the elite dont want us to know is that we can all be rich.

People tend to think of communistic lifestyle when one mentions equal distribution of resources. This just isnt the case.

Everyone on this planet could have an enormous house with all the latest technologies. An acre of land for every single person on this planet and it wouldnt fill up Australia.

We wouldnt be living in poverty. Technology and allowing abundant resources to reach the masses would make us all rich in terms of lifestyle.

We currently waste a ridiculous amount of talent, intellect, and labor on unnecessary industries. We could free up millions of talented people from pointless tasks such as advertising, public relations, wall street, banking, economics, taxes, credit score agencies, collections, repo men, and on and on and on.

A small portion of that wasted talent could be used to immensely enrich our lives. We cant even begin to imagine the lost technological inventions lost. How many Einsteins did we lose because a family couldnt afford to send their kid to college ?

Profit will always lead to human suffering...


Humanity didnt benefit from Monsanto's profit when they dumped tons of toxic waste in nearby Annistan Alabama.

Humanity doesnt benefit when pharm corporations spend 80% of their profits on advertising and the remaining cash on antacid medicines.

Its time for humanity to grow up and stop killing ourselves for an outdated scarity principle.

fyi folks, dont argue point by point with Lowlevelmason. If he is a disinfo agent he's trying to bait you into an argument for a reason.

The message and point of this thread will be lost. People will gloss over and quickly lose interest when they see quoted paragraphs followed by replies repeated over and over.

Its actually a classic PR technique used to dissuade a message from reaching the masses.

If he isnt a disinfo agent, you arent going to change the person's mind. Its clear by now he wont accept any other beliefs.

The fact is LowlevelMason that the way the world is run is outdated.

Before in human history it was necessary to have money to expand. The only things that could collect resources and expand society were the worker classes, but now we have machines.

Now the machines are the worker class, yet we still use the slow, inefficient human workers. The way things are run now are soo inefficient and so ancient its insulting to our species.

We need to let machines take over the work force so we can concentrate on expansion of the human race, so we can provide food, clean water and cures to every disease to every human.

The times of rich and poor are outdated the time for expansion is here, we cant expand if we cling to the old ways of doing business.

ps. fer sure admriker, back to the point I would love to live and see the day when the monetary system dies and is replaced by abundance and peace.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by caballero]

reply to post by admriker444


Thats right, ignore all who disagree! Only preach the Zeitgeist propaganda, all who say otherwise are disinformation agents!

Your not offering anything here, just "OMG SOMEONE DOESNT AGREE! HES BAD!"

Sorry, you can continue to love being in ignorance, I will continue to deny ignorance.

Your doing a classical propaganda technique: shut out all debate, follow the party line. Hitler would be proud.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by caballero
The fact is LowlevelMason that the way the world is run is outdated.

Outdated? Well, its the best thing tried so far. Could be a better system, but I have not yet seen one.

Originally posted by caballero
Before in human history it was necessary to have money to expand. The only things that could collect resources and expand society were the worker classes, but now we have machines.

Its still necessary because we need someone to create, maintain, and upgrade those machines. Work still exists which is necessary to survive, its just that the type of work has shifted from a industrial society to a knowledge society.

Work keeps getting more efficient and effective because efficient and effective work drives profit. Remove the profit, remove the incentive to bother.

There is nothing wrong with people having more than other people. Being rich is not wrong. Remove the incentive to be successful and you will have anything but peace and abundance.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


There is a better system, we can improve an exsisting one. Communism, but instead of communism based on the monetary system communism based on resources. Dont think of it like COMMUNISM think of it as the world sharing what should be shared instead of hoarded.

abundance is the future, not scarcity.


BTW I hope you enjoy your government job, how do you like working for the ones making life hell for over half the world.

reply to post by caballero


Communism is a failed system, and it fails every time. Take out the money factor and it will be even worse - you will make the leaders of communism like Kings, able to live well by threats and fear tactics since they can't pay anyone to do anything.

And scarcity is a fact of life. There are finite resources. Thats just the way reality is.

I don't work for government - what is with you people? Are you so utterly paranoid and delusional that you think everyone who doesn't go with Zeitgeist propaganda is a government agent?

And frankly there is nothing wrong with those who do work for government. Hatred of government workers is the same type of propaganda you bought in when you decided to hate everyone with more than you. Its a way to keep yourself ignorant - to proclaim that all who disagree are secret government agents out to get you.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
You are WRONG. This is not technocracy - technocracy still requires someone be paid to do the innovating, and still involves free will. This is environmental communism.

Communism entails "leaders" (read: privileged) to dole out the "shares." In this system, not only are leaders unnecessary, there are no "shares." Because there IS abundance. Take what you WANT, not merely "your share." Communism also relies on money at one level or another.

So no, this is NOT Communism. A true technocracy relies on technology to run things. Again, innovation comes from the heart, by those whose bliss it is to solve problems. That they get paid in a system that pays is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Oh, surely you would be free to have a religion, but what gums up the works is a DIVISIVE religion. One that says, effectively, "We WILL NOT get along with you unless you believe as we do.

Right, in other words: you don't get to live in our society unless you agree with our ideology. Such freedom! Such liberty! Again, this is communism.

I did not say that. You can live in this society if you hold divisive views. Just don't expect freedom from laws if you're going to go "killing the [heathens, infidels, what have you]." Such liberty.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
A. Robots can fix robots.

B. Some people find their bliss in fixing things like robots and will do it just for the love of doing it.

Right. Uh-huh. Tell me one case right now of any technology that has no human intervention and robots are just fixing themselves in never-ending cycles. Just one. You won't find a single case. Because when something breaks, SOMEONE has to fix it. And no one is going to do it because they "love doing it" - they have no reason to. Everything is somehow mysteriously provided for them thanks to communism.

And this means we can't set that up?!? You are clearly lacking in visionary skills.

Still waiting for one example where someone simply solved any major problem without profiting from it. No one does it because they enjoy it.

Another spook tactic? I have covered that. As long as we are encompassed in a system that REQUIRES income to survive, all such problems solved will include profit.

And man oh man are you VERY wrong about no one enjoying the solving of problems. I LOVE doing it if I can. I have invented solutions for many things (no prototype money, sadly). So has my fiance, who knew he was an inventor at the age of five. He LOVES it, and would be doing it in a resource-driven economy with as much fervor - and with the tools he needs to actually create prototyping that he can't afford now.

"No one does it because they enjoy it," my rectal orifice.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I think you will find that if a person in a monetary system, constrained by his or her particular income, frustrated by an inability to afford or find the time for their bliss, who snaps and becomes homicidal...will never go there because they're too busy following their bliss.

Wow..you've bought into the Z:A propganda whole sale! Again, crimes exist outside of money. They happen all the time. They are called crimes of passion. People who have everything, all the money in the world, kill each other because they get mad. What are you going to do? Who is going to stop crimes of passion? No one will be able to lawfully because there is no law. And society will devolve into anarchy.

And you can show how people happily pursuing their bliss, with no stresses, are likely to commit crimes of passion? What makes these people who have everything, all the money in the world, kill each other? What do they get mad over? I'll tell you. Virtually always: MONEY.

So. If you promote love and following your bliss, with no money to make you mad, and no stresses from lack of means, with abundance, what we call crime would be virtually nonexistent.

Dear, there is nothing wrong with love of money. People get upset because someone loves money more than they do, and has more than them. Its the hatred of those with more than you that is the root of all our current problems.

Ah. THAT explains the oil companies hiding free energy. That explains the HMO's denying life-saving operation. That explains Big Pharma's research not for cures but for patentable, damaging compounds. That explains the dumping of toxic chemicals in our water, chemicals sold to the municipalities, so they don't have to pay to dispose of them safely - making money doubly thereby. That explains the drug laws that allow the prison industrial complexes to make money on our hapless citizens, while the CIA brings in the drugs to profit the black ops. That explains so much!

Now stay with me on this... IF we had abundance for all, and there was no need for money... Would we have this "evil" of "the hatred of those with more than you that is the root of all our current problems?" If everyone could have as much as they want...? Would that be an issue?

There has never been a case of "big pharma" not looking for cures because of money, in fact, they spend a lot of money looking for cures because they can charge astronomical amounts of money for it.

Oh MAN how naive a statement. Lessee. We can charge $120 for a month's supply of this drug that costs us 5 cents to make, over an average of 120 months... That's $14,400 minus the $6 it cost us leaving $14,394. Per person with this disease and not including the four other meds we can offer to help with the side effects...

Or we can spend 150,000 to find a cure, which benefits the doctors and the hospitals and the nurses and the anesthesiologists - but not us really, at all, and then the patient won't be paying us the $14,394.

Oh, let's look for a CURE! Right. What planet did you say you live on again?

Please do tell how it is that we have irradiated so many diseases if everyone is to busy trying to stop cures?

Um... I think the term is "eradicated..." And let me ask you first...are you talking about cancer? Are you talking about heart disease? Are you talking about AIDS? Are you talking about stroke? Are you talking about arthritis? Are you talking about Parkinsons? Alzheimer's? Multiple Sclerosis? Muscular Dystrophy?

Or are you talking about viruses and bacteria, which were severely reduced through healthy diet and sanitation?

Take money out of the equation, and there will be no innovation.

We've covered that and know that is BS.

You cannot talk about "oh people will just do things because they get bliss out of it" and yet never provide a single case of this happening.

Yes, I can. Virtually ALL invention and innovation comes from this. No one says to themselves, "Ah god. Guess I had better find a solution here because if I don't I won't get paid" - unless they are on a job that requires them to try to innovate or invent. I don't know ANY job like that, but there may be a handful in the world.

ALL innovation starts with someone looking at something and thinking, "Ooo! I bet I can find a better way!" and then... Since we're in this debt-driven economy, they say, "Oh! I bet I could SELL it!"

I am beginning to suspect that you lack intelligence, but I will hope you prove me wrong on that.

There have been rich people who had so much money that money was never a concern for them - they had it all - and you can't name one of these people who did anything huge just to get bliss out of it.

Hey! How about Dean Kamen? Does HE count? Sure he made money, but he was driven to produce the things he did BECAUSE HE LOVES TO DO IT. The income was gravy.

Its always been for a profit, and it always will be. No one is going to do anything when everything is handed to them through communism.

Only if we live in a debt-driven (Ponzi scheme) monetary system. IF we did not, we would invent and innovate all the more, having the time and the resources.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Yes...and no. By taking the phantom back from you, you work as a slave. And you work more for less tangible gain. But you're a slave that is on his/her own.

Still not answering the question. If its all pointless why are bankers doing this? Working so hard and so hell bent on amassing...something with no value? And no, bankers don't buy gold. Gold is as worthless as paper.

OH boy. In a metaphysical sense, you are right. In what we have learned to value, not true. Gold will have relative value as the Dollar crumbles to dust. The Ponzi scheme is about run its course, amassing the wealth in the hands of the few, and so... The Banksters are buying gold with all that money that isn't real, and when it goes *POOF* we, the People, will be the ones with empty hands, no lands, no ownership in stocks, nothing.

And then? Heh. NWO.

The amount that you've bought into the Z:A propaganda is amazing. Your so naive you go around screaming that anyone who disagrees is a "disinfo agent"

The amount you are incapable, either through a true mental lack or through a deliberate facade, of critical thinking is truly amazing (as demonstrated in some of the things you said above). That you lack vision is also either your sad state or a deliberate effort to degrade the vision.

Oh, and like another recently in another thread, your book of spooks tactic is showing. I never have gone "around screaming that anyone who disagrees [with me] is a "disinfo agent"." I said I SUSPECT you of that, to you, and in no raised voice. You do nothing here to allay my suspicions. But perhaps you merely need to learn to read more closely.

[edit on 10/7/2008 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
Another fine example of those who live off fear...

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Yes and no. Any tech that can be used to make more money is advanced. Any tech that can threaten profit is suppressed, like Royal Rife's work, the Joe Cell, Schauberger's stuff, cures for diseases, etc.

As any technology can be used to make more money, all technology has advanced. Nothing has been "suppressed" because of profit because anything can be turned into profit. Your rattling off CTs without a single ounce of proof. Curing diseases? I guess that's why polo was wiped off the map and is no longer an epidemic - oh wait...

I am NOT going to take the bait here but to say that polo is a game, and polio went UP when the vaccine was administered, and also there is no evidence it did ANYTHING. It was better diet and hygiene that took care of that disease, and yet big Pharma makes LOTS of money administering things that raise antibodies, which have never been shown to make a difference (i.e., the HIV virus does not make you immune to AIDS, but more susceptible).

Mention this again and I will ignore it.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Computers enhanced profit in many ways. I am sure you can see why, but if not, let me know and I will ennumerate a few. The internet initially was seen as harmless, and then VERY profitable (the Dotcom thing?), and now a frightening thing for its ability to spread information far and wide. Free speach and all that. (Why do you think net neutrality is being attacked overtly and covertly?)

Who cares? Enhancing profits is good. It brings technology to everyone, your benefiting from it right now.

Ok, spooky. This is just dumb. You asked why computers and the internet were "allowed." I answered, and you responded as if I pulled my words out of my butt.

I have no more energy for you. You clearly have an agenda here and I will not respond to you henceforth.

Have a nice life.

[edit on 10/7/2008 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Communism entails "leaders" (read: privileged) to dole out the "shares." In this system, not only are leaders unnecessary, there are no "shares." Because there IS abundance. Take what you WANT, not merely "your share." Communism also relies on money at one level or another.

Incorrect, because "abundance" does not come out of thin air. It IS communist because there is no reason to be successful - somehow, everything is simply given to you.

You can quote this line about "bliss" all you like, but you can't provide one example of it ever happening. Because its not based in reality. Innovation won't come with this communism, because no one has a reason to be innovative.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I did not say that. You can live in this society if you hold divisive views. Just don't expect freedom from laws if you're going to go "killing the [heathens, infidels, what have you]." Such liberty.

Who are you to decide what is divisive and what is not? What if I hold YOUR views to be divisive? Who gets to decide when there is no state, nothing to ensure the views of the minority from the tyranny of people like you? Yet another flaw in the innumerable cracks of "project venus."

Originally posted by Amaterasu
And this means we can't set that up?!? You are clearly lacking in visionary skills.

You are clearly lacking a grounding in reality. You can't give one example of something where a machine fixes itself, because it doesn't exist. Thus, your communist utopia cannot exist.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Another spook tactic? I have covered that. As long as we are encompassed in a system that REQUIRES income to survive, all such problems solved will include profit.

Wrong again, and another attempt to cover up yet another crack in your theory. There are countless people throughout history who had every opportunity to innovate without profit. People have free time, they don't work 24/7. And yet - no one - ever - decided to innovative for free. Why? Because then there is no incentive.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
And man oh man are you VERY wrong about no one enjoying the solving of problems. I LOVE doing it if I can. I have invented solutions for many things (no prototype money, sadly). So has my fiance, who knew he was an inventor at the age of five. He LOVES it, and would be doing it in a resource-driven economy with as much fervor - and with the tools he needs to actually create prototyping that he can't afford now.

Who cares? There is a difference between doing something and doing it well. Where are your patents? Where is one thing you've done for free that was innovative? Since your SO good at it, just give one example. No one invents without incentive.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
And you can show how people happily pursuing their bliss, with no stresses, are likely to commit crimes of passion? What makes these people who have everything, all the money in the world, kill each other? What do they get mad over? I'll tell you. Virtually always: MONEY.

Psst. Guess what. If people did only want they wanted, work would never get done. Robots can't replace everything, and if everyone just went off and did what they wanted things that need to be done for your communist utopia wouldn't be done.

And you are of course, wrong again. So many crimes have been committed without ANY connection to money. I can't believe your that ignorant. Sometimes people JUST KILL EACH OTHER - their emotions get too high, they think they can get away with it, and they do it. What are you going to do about it in your little utopia with no law?

So. If you promote love and following your bliss, with no money to make you mad, and no stresses from lack of means, with abundance, what we call crime would be virtually nonexistent.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Ah. THAT explains the oil companies hiding free energy. That explains the HMO's denying life-saving operation. That explains Big Pharma's research not for cures but for patentable, damaging compounds. That explains the dumping of toxic chemicals in our water, chemicals sold to the municipalities, so they don't have to pay to dispose of them safely - making money doubly thereby. That explains the drug laws that allow the prison industrial complexes to make money on our hapless citizens, while the CIA brings in the drugs to profit the black ops. That explains so much!

Actually that explains nothing you stated, since none of those things actually ever happen - just more propaganda your spreading without facts. It DOES explain why people like you hate those with more than them though.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Now stay with me on this... IF we had abundance for all, and there was no need for money... Would we have this "evil" of "the hatred of those with more than you that is the root of all our current problems?" If everyone could have as much as they want...? Would that be an issue?

Stay with me on this - since there is no way to create abundance without SOMEONE working, and you have a society where no one is going to work unless they want to, how are you going to create it? And since you hate those with more than you, what are you going to do when they decide that they want to be successful and amass something that you want?

Yes, it is an issue. One because it cant be done, and two because it punishes people who want to do more than live off welfare.

Oh MAN how naive a statement. Lessee. We can charge $120 for a month's supply of this drug that costs us 5 cents to make, over an average of 120 months... That's $14,400 minus the $6 it cost us leaving $14,394. Per person with this disease and not including the four other meds we can offer to help with the side effects... Or we can spend 150,000 to find a cure, which benefits the doctors and the hospitals and the nurses and the anesthesiologists - but not us really, at all, and then the patient won't be paying us the $14,394. Oh, let's look for a CURE! Right. What planet did you say you live on again?

Ignorance is bliss. No drug costs 5 cents to make, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT COST TIME AND MONEY THAT NO ONE IS GOING TO DO FOR FREE. Also, since you know so much, name one case where we could spend 150,000 to find a cure. Amazing.

Um... I think the term is "eradicated..." And let me ask you first...are you talking about cancer? Are you talking about heart disease? Are you talking about AIDS? Are you talking about stroke? Are you talking about arthritis? Are you talking about Parkinsons? Alzheimer's? Multiple Sclerosis? Muscular Dystrophy? Or are you talking about viruses and bacteria, which were severely reduced through healthy diet and sanitation?

Here we go again with the propaganda techniques. Whenever I list one of the many diseases that have been wiped off the face of the earth, your going to tell me it had nothing to do with medical research but "healthy diet and sanitation."

Tell me, if love of money is so evil then why do we even have healthy diets or sanitation? After all, people could make more money without those things. Oops, there is flaw 3,283,381 in this theory.

Lets see, what have we cured through MEDICAL RESEARCH THAT COST MONEY. Smallpox, polio, tuberculosis, bubonic plague, the lists go on. These diseases still exit, but can be prevented 100% or cured if caught early. DO tell me, since you are so convinced that its evil love of money that stops us from curing everything, why these illnesses have been addressed - by the love of money? After all, we could make much more money if no vaccinations or antibiotics ever existed. Why do these exist? I'd love to hear how you get out of the hole you just dug for yourself.

Yes, I can. Virtually ALL invention and innovation comes from this. No one says to themselves, "Ah god. Guess I had better find a solution here because if I don't I won't get paid" - unless they are on a job that requires them to try to innovate or invent. I don't know ANY job like that, but there may be a handful in the world. ALL innovation starts with someone looking at something and thinking, "Ooo! I bet I can find a better way!" and then... Since we're in this debt-driven economy, they say, "Oh! I bet I could SELL it!" I am beginning to suspect that you lack intelligence, but I will hope you prove me wrong on that.

No need - you've proved you are lacking in quite a bit of intelligence. And, of course, you are wrong yet again.

NO one thinks "Man, I'm going to make the world a better place for free." No one thinks "You know, I could do this better, and I am going to do it even though it costs me my time and I'll never get rewarded for it since we live in a world where success is punished."

EVERY job in the world is like that. No one has ever invented anything for fun.

Hey! How about Dean Kamen? Does HE count? Sure he made money, but he was driven to produce the things he did BECAUSE HE LOVES TO DO IT. The income was gravy.

Wrong again! If he didn't get any income from it and knew he would never be rewarded for his success, he would never have invented anything.

Only if we live in a debt-driven (Ponzi scheme) monetary system. IF we did not, we would invent and innovate all the more, having the time and the resources.

Nope, this is the quickest way to ensure we get no where. When everyone has everything given to them, we would invent nothing. Do tell - name ONE person who gets all their welfare from the state who is inventing for fun? Just one. Yet again, you can't.

OH boy. In a metaphysical sense, you are right. In what we have learned to value, not true. Gold will have relative value as the Dollar crumbles to dust. The Ponzi scheme is about run its course, amassing the wealth in the hands of the few, and so... The Banksters are buying gold with all that money that isn't real, and when it goes *POOF* we, the People, will be the ones with empty hands, no lands, no ownership in stocks, nothing. And then? Heh. NWO.

CT without proof, yet again. Gold has no value, and neither does the dollar. By the way, I bet your loving how the dollar is rallying despite people like you proclaiming its demise on a daily basis. There is no international cabal of bankers trying to bring in the NWO, which itself does not exist.

The amount you are incapable, either through a true mental lack or through a deliberate facade, of critical thinking is truly amazing (as demonstrated in some of the things you said above). That you lack vision is also either your sad state or a deliberate effort to degrade the vision. Oh, and like another recently in another thread, your book of spooks tactic is showing. I never have gone "around screaming that anyone who disagrees [with me] is a "disinfo agent"." I said I SUSPECT you of that, to you, and in no raised voice. You do nothing here to allay my suspicions. But perhaps you merely need to learn to read more closely.

Ah yes - when you have no idea what your talking about, attack the other person. Does it make you feel better about your theories? Your fear mongering and accusations have revealed yet again you have no idea what your talking about.

I am NOT going to take the bait here but to say that polo is a game, and polio went UP when the vaccine was administered, and also there is no evidence it did ANYTHING. It was better diet and hygiene that took care of that disease, and yet big Pharma makes LOTS of money administering things that raise antibodies, which have never been shown to make a difference (i.e., the HIV virus does not make you immune to AIDS, but more susceptible). Mention this again and I will ignore it.

Of course you'll ignore it - because its yet another crack that by this point has completely destroyed your pet theory. Polio vaccinations cured polio from the population. Fact. The end. You can claim it was anything else you like, but you know your wrong. And of course even if you were to buy the conspiracy theory and claim it wasn't the vaccines, you still have to answer WHY AND HOW this is possible - if love of money was so evil and so bad, then it would have kept bad living conditions - its easier to make money that way. It didn't happen - why - because love of money is not evil, thats just propaganda.

Ok, spooky. This is just dumb. You asked why computers and the internet were "allowed." I answered, and you responded as if I pulled my words out of my butt. I have no more energy for you. You clearly have an agenda here and I will not respond to you henceforth. Have a nice life.

Yet another flaw in your theory. Its over. Its clear your not prepared to deal with challenges. How sad - instead of trying to have a discussion you claim everyone is a disinfo agent. Your agenda has been exposed: the propaganda of Zeitgeist is wrong.

Money is not the problem. Get rid of money, and another scape goat will appear. The problem in the world since the conception of man is EGO. Get rid of Ego, and we will have Utopia.

Originally posted by Oreyeon
Money is not the problem. Get rid of money, and another scape goat will appear. The problem in the world since the conception of man is EGO. Get rid of Ego, and we will have Utopia.

Do tell me what will appear. I can't think of anything. I see nothing wrong with ego offered abundance and the opportunity to follow its bliss.

You think abundance would be no better than what we have now...?