Islam: What the West needs to know.

reply to post by MarkAkaSilent


You christians are such hypocrites . You want to know something barbaric ?.
One of my best friends father was a lay baptist priest . He allowed his best friend to force her to give him oral sex from the age of ten years old while he slept with his friends wife . He destroyed his own daughters life so his mate could get a blow job and you have the nerve to point the finger at islam ? HA !

Christian fundamentalism is full of sick perverts like that .Mormon ,baptist ,born again I dont give a damn what you call it .
Its the same old excuse for abusing children in christs name no less !

How many catholic priests have to be exposed for peadophilia before you realise religion is not the issue , its the excuse .

The OP is doing nothing but spreading hatred against Islam and as such, is just as guilty as the so called terrorists that you claim to be "protecting us" against. Don't you see that is how this sort of stuff gets started? As has been pointed out repeatedly, the Christian faith is equally rife with hatred, genocide, racism, slavery, brutality and "conversion at the edge of a sword." What about this are you guys not getting?? QUITE SPEWING HATRED AGAINST ISLAM and trying to incite another holy war! The "Obsession" is making it's rounds everywhere and you guys are just doing nothing but trying to fan the flames. Why don't you take a lesson from JC (whom you claim to follow) and become peacemakers instead?

Its because of thousands of years of this kind of stuff that I pray all fundamental religions will cease.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by whatsup]



[edit on 28-9-2008 by whatsup]

Originally posted by reconpilot
reply to post by MarkAkaSilent

 

You christians are such hypocrites . You want to know something barbaric ?.
One of my best friends father was a lay baptist priest . He allowed his best friend to force her to give him oral sex from the age of ten years old while he slept with his friends wife . He destroyed his own daughters life so his mate could get a blow job and you have the nerve to point the finger at islam ? HA !

Christian fundamentalism is full of sick perverts like that .Mormon ,baptist ,born again I dont give a damn what you call it .
Its the same old excuse for abusing children in christs name no less !

How many catholic priests have to be exposed for peadophilia before you realise religion is not the issue , its the excuse .

And you are also a hypocrite.

Can you condemn all Christians because of the actions of a few?

What about all the atheists, muslims and devil worshippers who do this? Are all atheists, muslims and devil worshippers just as guilty, in your view, because of the actions of some?

reply to post by whatsup


Exactly wassup . Like my grandfather said .You will find more true christians outside the church than you ever will inside .

And you know what ? If JC ever does come back , it will be the christians that crucify him this time around !

There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. If Qu'ran was indeed a radical book that called for death of unbelievers then wouldn't we have a #load of more war going on. I mean that's almost a third of our population thirsting for our blood according to some of the 'experts' on the religion posting in this thread. Wouldn't we be engaged in a full out holy war with every Muslim out there?

No. Instead despite what some of you like to believe it is not a radical kill all religion. Sure there are certain interpretation and sects that will want that and that's why we have assholes like Al-Quaeda and Iran. The fact remains though that the vast vast majority of devout Muslims are living in peace with modern society not strapping themselves with bombs and killing children.

reply to post by Old Man


Old man , you have a fair point and I happily concede to it .
I personally have a lot of respect for what jesus taught .I just wish more christians practiced what he preached .

reply to post by reconpilot


At least you see sense regarding this. There must be a fair amount of balance. You can't simply condemn all because of a few.


If you did that, who would be free from blame, I ask you?

reply to post by reconpilot


The difference is, is that Jesus didn't have sex with young children, and personally behead people. You can't compare the two.

reply to post by 19 Killer

The Bible ends with the peace and love of Jesus Christ, who has never commited any violent act in his life. He preached love. The Quran has Mohamad, not the most loving prophet in the world, compare the two together?

Ok, if you guys keep up this demonizing of Islam, I am going to post a whole slew of atrocities committed "in the name of Christ" throughout the ages. I will include several going all the way back to the Byzantine Empire, the Crusades, Inquisition, Witch trials, Native Americans, KKK, and a variety of others. Fair enough?

Originally posted by ShooterSix
reply to post by reconpilot

 

The difference is, is that Jesus didn't have sex with young children, and personally behead people. You can't compare the two.

True.

Muslims follow a false prophet.

reply to post by MarkAkaSilent


I have been a christian all my life. What you are proposing is extremely anti-christian. You are feeding the rhetoric machine by lambasting islam, when there are just as many christian extremist talking about killing all muslims, in the name of god. My friend, Jesus wouldn't have advocated any of this. And if you are still at the stage of thinking that all your sources of info are absolute, you have a ways to go to understanding this great complex world.

I will leave you with this: There are hundreds of different names for water, in a hundred of different cultures, however there is only one water. Same with God. Culture is what you're lost within, not a definition of who's god is right.

AAC



AAC

Islam is a religion of peace....!!!

That is, as long as your islamic & follow the rules of the Koran.

I have been told by soooo many muslims that there is no killing or advocation of killing in the Koran..lol

Yet when you open the pages to see for yourself, there it is in plain text..!!!

Kill the infedels...!!!

Lets not forget womens rights either. According to the Koran, Women are not actually human & do not have souls.

They may be beaten by their men "so long as it leaves no mark", they may be beheaded if they refuse the advances of their husbands..lol

If a woman is raped & forced into sexual intercourse & she is not married, she is executed for her crime..!!!

Yeah, Islam is a religion of peace & tolorance..lolololololol

And yet every time someone like me states that these passages exist in the Koran, a muslim will very quickly tell you that we are just misenterpreting the words..

Misenterpreting? Kill the non-believers, Kill the Infedels, Jihad, ? how can these words be misenterpreted?

Don't get me wrong here though, I think the Holy bible isn't also without its questioable verses either, nor is the jewish book, or the Hindu one...

Personally I think they are all bad books that advocate vilence in some form or another.

It's just that the koran is the one that makes these quoted more frequently than all the others.

All religions have their fair share of fanatics.

This world would be a much simpler place with no religion at all..!!

[edit on 9/28/2008 by Ironclad]

reply to post by reconpilot


And can we follow up with I hate all Americans because of slavery. Or I hate business because of some who have taken advantage of others. This world is full of them. And because someone uses a religious idea for their own gain we proclaim all with the same ideology are ready to take advantage of others. That argument is flawed and nothing but an emotional irrational response.

I used to be a Christian and a Sunday School teacher.
but:
- Too many "Christians spread virulent hatred like this,

- Christianity teaches that all non Christians will go to hell, fostering an arrogant superiority complex amongst its followers and making them believe they have an obligation to interfere in other peoples' lives.

- Christianity is based on the lie of resurrection, when even the Bible has many clues to show Jesus never died in the first place,

- Christianity serves as a cover for terrible perversions,

- Christianity is based as much on the Old Testament as the New. Jesus said that he had not come to destroy the old law, but to fulfil it. The Old testament is full of stories of God and His prophets advocating widespread slaughter. There's even a proud tale of the Chosen Ones tricking a whole town into believing they can become friends if they get circumcised, and then killing them all while they are weak from their circumcisions.

- Christianity is used as an excuse to deny homosexuals equal rights, to prevent women having access to safe abortion and to even arrest adults over the sales of sex toys.


I've been to Heaven, during an NDE, and there were no gates to keep anyone out. There was nothing whatsoever religious about it. It was home, a place full of love, compassion and understanding. But entry, after death, is by choice, and if you don't want to be somewhere where all, good and bad, are loved equally, and where your thoughts and past actions are completely transparent to all, when you see Heaven ahead you will turn and run for the dim dark clouds of illusion.

Originally posted by Ironclad......Islam is a religion of peace & tolorance....

Yeah i think that everybody have got the message now following the last cartoon-incident.

reply to post by Kailassa


"- Christianity is based on the lie of resurrection, when even the Bible has many clues to show Jesus never died in the first place,"


Perhaps you would like to show us all where this is stated in the bible.

Or lose your credibility completely.

reply to post by ShooterSix


You got it! Muslims don't want to repeat the teachings of their moon-god Allah, and certainly don't want to repeat the teachings and example of their self-proclaimed prophet.

Christ never taught anything related to the teachings of this moon-god Allah, nor Allah's self-proclaimed prophet.

Are there Christians who on their own have committed atrocities? You bet. I've done my share. (in war)

But the difference is, I didn't get it from my God or my Savior.

"Our onslaught will not be a weak, faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven the violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established [throughout the world]. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Ishaq:324

"He said 'Fight ehem so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals." Ishaq: 324

"By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta'if so that I might be able to obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant." Tabair VIII: 130 (Nice, inspiring prophet.)

"If you come upon them, deal forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a sever example of them by terrorizing Allah's enemies." Ishaq: 326

"The messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."
Tabari: VIII: 38

"A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm's daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger [Muhammed]. Umm's daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammed asked Slaamah for her, and Salamah gave her to Him." Tabari: VIII

"The Jews at Quanuqa replied, 'Muhammed, do you think we are like your people? Do not be deluded by the fact that you met a people with no knowledge and you made good use of your opportunity."
Tabari VII:85, Ishaq 3:56

"Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind." Ishaq:204

There's so much more. This is not just the behavior of a few misguided followers. These are the teachings and examples of a self-proclaimed prophet who spread this intolerant religion through force.

Someone fears an eventual "Holy War?" Sorry. It was already declared by Muhammed. Do you mean an open holy war? Oh. If you can't see the lightning on the horizon and the dark clouds churning in the near distance, then you aren't paying attention.

Ironically the Jews were being judged according to their own law! The very thing that the author of this post is trying to call brutal and unfair is actually the law that is found in his own Bible:

Deuteronomy 20:10-12

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies

This is what happened, the Muslims had a treaty with the Bani Quraiza, the Bani Quraiza broke it (which aided attacks on Muslims). They refused to surrender even after they broke the treaty and fought to protect the criminals. Therefore, they were judged with their own law and ironically even the leader who caused all this problem even admits that he deserved such a punishment and that it was the order of God.

When the Muslims finally laid siege to them and defeated this particular Jewish tribe, they did not execute everyone. The ones that stuck to the treaty were spared. The siege continued for twenty-five days, during which the Muslims allowed the Jews who had refused to betray the Prophet during the Battle of the Ditch to leave and go wherever they wished as a reward for their faithfulness. It was the warriors who were executed and not the women and children.

If any Christian wants to condemn this judgment then he is actually condemning his own Bible because it was by a law found in their Bible that the Jews were judged by. Plus it was not Prophet Muhammad who issued the order it was Sad bin Muadh whom the Jews agreed to judge their fate.

At that time, anyone who reached the age of puberty was eligible to fight and were thus considered to be warriors. They were only ordered to be executed if they fought against the Muslims, the ones that stuck to the deal were spared. A main reason for the executions were because they sheltered criminals, defended them and protected them. They were an obstruction to justice and therefore deserved the same fate as the leaders. BTW - Did not most Americans agree that Afghanistan/Taliban had to be attacked for the same reason: Protecting criminals (ie: al-Qaidah)?

Originally posted by Old Man
reply to post by Kailassa

 

"- Christianity is based on the lie of resurrection, when even the Bible has many clues to show Jesus never died in the first place,"


Perhaps you would like to show us all where this is stated in the bible.

Or lose your credibility completely.

Jesus was supposedly hung on the cross at the 3rd hour, and died at the ninth hour. That adds up to 6 hours. Crucifixion was a slow, humiliating torture which could take up to 3 days to kill a person.

Mark 15:25 (King James Version)
25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified him. 33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Matthew 27:45-46 (King James Version)
45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? 50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Crucifixion cannot be done by nailing through a person's hands, because the weight of the upper body during crucifixion is suspended from the hands, and the flesh of the hands would tear through, allowing the body to fall down. The only exception to this is if the feet are supported, which prevents the faster death of suffocation.

We are told clearly that Jesus had nail holes through his hands afterwards. Either that is a lie, because weight on the hands would not allow them to support without tearing through, or it was the truth and Jesus was subjected to a punishment which would leave him supported, and dying slowly of thirst.

Crucifixion was also intended as a humiliation, and crucified bodies were not allowed a proper funeral, just thrown into a field of shame. Yet Jesus body was allowed to be carefully taken down and put in the luxurious tomb of a wealthy man. This tomb was conveniently stocked with substances which can be used for cleansing, antibiotics and healing.

Jesus was taken down on at 6pm on a Friday. Anyone familiar with Jewish customs will realise the significance of the timing. The Jewish Sabbath begins at dusk on Friday. If Jesus had been left on the cross any longer he would have had to be left another 24 hours.

So what we are looking at here is an obvious conspiracy to make Jesus appear to fulfil the predictions of the Old Testament, in order to give a rebellion a "Messiah" to inspire more people to join the fight against Roman occupation.

reply to post by Kailassa


It's great to meet an expert on crucifixion! I mean, one so knowledgeable, one who was apparently there!

Let me clue you in. There were more forms of crucifixion than you can imagine. Not only that, but in general the local army garrisons frequently bend to mesh with the local cultures.

Everything Jewish was fixing to stop. There was a timeline. Even the Roman soldiers were anxious to get on with it and get to more sheltered areas. If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the gospels. It was dark, the wind was blowing, and there was a lot of unusual things occurring simultaneously with the crucified Lamb. If I were the Almighty, and my Son was experiencing this intentionally inflicted trauma, I'd be pissed!

So we find that to hurry things along, depending on the type of crucifixion of the moment, there were things that the soldiers could do to more closely match their personal desires and schedule. Break bones. Use the spear and stick them. Pull downward on the bodies. Pry them out from the backbone of the cross.

No, I can tell you that if I have a man who has already been beaten to death, and this is not a common criminal, I can help make this happen. Did they not spear him? To make sure he was dead?

All this was according to the plan that apparently was in play since time began. And you think the Great Architect would not account for something as simple as a timeline?

Keep denying. And when you take that last breath, you won't be so sure as you are now, I guarantee you.